[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 23, 2022 at 6:41 am · in reply to: Trouble raising HR to Z2 on long hikes #71786

Hi George,

A couple of thoughts on your questions. In one of the Sunday evening calls, I was asking Mark if the 10-20% BW hikes counted as ME and my take away was those simply count as a normal Z2 workout. The ME workouts involve a heavier pack where HR may or may not exceed AeT but the local muscular fatigue and load on the legs would be quite high, or it could be a 10-20% BW carry where the HR is pushed into Z3. I too am on the intermediate plan and I have not been treating the weekend weighted carry’s as ME.

This is my first time doing the group training, but based on previous experience it is normal to be carrying a fair amount of fatigue into the end of the third week of a block, which is why the fourth week is an easier recovery week. This gives your body the necessary stress to trigger adaptation and the ‘easy’ week permits recovery to lock in the gains.

Pay attention to your body and see how you feel/recover during next week. As with everything, it’s all personal so you may need to tweak the plan for an extra recovery day, or incorporate a low stress swim or the like to aid in your recovery. I find the yoga can also help.

As for your second question, HR is always a function of speed, so if you feel like your terrain is sufficiently steep you may need to up the speed to get the HR into Z2. Or you may need steeper terrain. Just be smart about things – you shouldn’t need to run with a 30# pack (my knees ache just thinking about that) and you don’t want to go faster than difficult terrain would allow. Have you considered hiking the fall line vs the maintained trail? Are there super steep sections of trail you could repeat? I’m a fan of being outside, but for an academic exercise could you try a stairmill or indoor stairs to see how your HR responds?

Report back on what you end up doing and how your HR responds. Im sure you are not the e only one with this.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 16, 2022 at 7:22 pm · in reply to: Did the Zones get revised? #71572

If I recall, the Z2 “no man’s land” listed in the book was a result of working with elite athletes where their Z2 is so fast it can cause too much stress/training load to train there for extended periods. Scott and Steve acknowledged in a podcast and or forum posts the first edition of the book had that Z2 no-go as a result of not fully appreciating its usefulness for training us mere mortals 😉

All current information has high volumes of Z2 for anyone that has aerobic deficiency syndrome with a span of 5% or greater between AeT and AnT.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 7, 2022 at 2:42 pm · in reply to: Where is the periodization? #71393

Mark, thank you for the response. I had a feeling this might require some tweaking from me to align to my goals, so thank you for confirming.

I have a couple of follow up questions.

I’m planning a Jan 6-14 Kilimanjaro trek via the Lemosho route, so this training group matches my training window quite nicely. I am coming off 7 weeks of base from the 24 week mountaineering plan that transitioned directly into our Oct 3 start date. I feel fit and have developed a respectable base for my objectives.

My question is how to optimize the next 12 weeks. I’m thinking I might swap the planned ME work for max strength for the next 6 weeks, then finish with 6 weeks of ME. My “b” objective is ice climbing in Munising at the Michigan IceFest mid Feb, so I would add some ice/mixed max strength to the lower body work on the first block.

I expect if I do this two block approach, I’ll have to be very careful to not over do it on ME in the second bock if I’m mixing lower body and upper. I think I can manage it, but I’ll need to pay attention to my recovery. Since Kili is not a technically challenging trek, I’m thinking I could dial back a bit of the low body ME if needed to accommodate the upper body (ice beast) work. If it matters, I’m 38, which I recognize means I don’t recover like someone in their 20’s, but I can still do some decent work and have consistently been training for 3+ years.

Thanks for the thoughts and recommendations.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 7, 2022 at 2:23 pm · in reply to: Zoom recordings? #71392

I love the idea of the Zoom being embedded and easy to play from the community page. However you know the type of personalities you are coaching, so a quick post in the forum after the recording for those that don’t want to wait 72 hr to see the content could also be helpful 😉

And by the way, as someone who has to rely on others to make web updates on my behalf, 3 days to post an update is very reasonable. So please forgive us who are champing at the bit for the content.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 7, 2022 at 2:16 pm · in reply to: Swapping Chamfit in the Basic Plan or adding General Strenght #71391

For general strength I have see plans incorporate something like:
Weeks 1/2 – two laps
Weeks 3/4 – three lap
Weeks 5/6 – four laps

Etc. then in the even weeks also increase weight.

The pattern is basically dial the movement, following week increase weight, following week add a lap, following week add weight, continue pattern, drop reps as weight increases.

But at some point you will convert from general to max strength. I feel like 4 week blocks are the min and 8-12 would be the most for a block.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 7, 2022 at 2:04 pm · in reply to: Different training frequencies #71390

Volume is important, but consistency is king. That’s why an athlete that consistently trains throughout the week will end up ahead of the weekend warrior who puts in big days sat/Sunday, but adds nothing to the bank on the week days.

Plus recovery is a key component and it is more realistic to recover from shorter sessions, even if it has a high training stimulus, vs getting crushed on a big objective and needing an extended time to recover. Yes, the big objective may be the prize you are working to, but generally it shouldn’t be the training stimulus. Of an athlete can handle long Z2 day, that’s good and many of the plans have 3-4 hr Z2 work on weekends, but that’s in addition to Z2, Z1, and strength work during the week.

Hope that helps.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 3, 2022 at 8:11 am · in reply to: Training While Guiding #71250

Steve was on a podcast a number of years back where he shared a personal story about getting overtrained due to not accounting for the workload of guiding. The whole podcast is interesting, but the relevant segment starts at 30:25. [post with link was blocked, so search for Mtn Meister Podcast #204 from March 2018]. Bottom line is guiding takes a toll on your body and the stress it introduces needs to be accounted for as part of your overall training plan.

I know Scott and others have often talked about this as well. See Scott’s UA podcast on overtraining. [This link was also blocked – search for the December 6th 2020 podcast called Talking Overtraining].

There are at least two more overtraining podcasts from UA. One is an interview with Phil Maffetone on Overtraining and the other is Scott discussing recovery by feel.

I’m not a guide so take my advice with a grain of salt, but your particular situation is likely worth a 1:1 call with one of the UA coaches.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on September 29, 2022 at 8:23 pm · in reply to: Fasted training #71175

I feel like I’ve seen guidance from the coaches that Z1/2 fasted is fine, but they recommend fueling for strength and Z3 work.

If I have a morning Z2 workout I usually do it fasted with a cup of black coffee, but always eat something before CMF or any weighted carry’s or strength sessions. If my schedule permits I’ll usually do z2 when I wake up, but move the others later in the day since they are not fasted.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on September 16, 2022 at 8:30 pm · in reply to: can’t get vimeo access to videos #70806

I haven’t seen a way to download CMF so if you need offline exercises, I suggest doing Scott’s Killer Core (free PDF available) and adding in a few of your favorite Cham Fit exercises from memory. Depending on target time for the session you may need to cycle through killer core two or three times if you are looking to hit a full hour like CMF.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on September 10, 2022 at 12:17 pm · in reply to: 24 Week Expeditionary Mountaineering Training Plan #70689

I’m signed up for the October group and wrestling with this very question. I have previously completed the 24 week plan to great effect and was starting in on another round when I decided to sign up for the group training. Right now I’m signed up for the intermediate plan, but wondering if I should bump up to the advanced plan?

My “A” goal is Kili in early January on a relatively easy 8 day route, so I believe even the basic plan would get me to the top. “B” goals include some ice climbing in February and if I had done the 24 week plan I would have added the workouts from the free Training for Mixed/Ice Climbing article that Steve wrote. Not sure how that would work with the intermediate or advanced plan in the group training.

Mark/Steve – any suggestions here?

Thanks,
Cory

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on September 10, 2022 at 1:29 am · in reply to: Prepping for October group start #70680

Hi Aaron,

I’m looking forward to getting to know you and the others in the group when we kick things off in a month. My “A” goal is to climb Mt Kilimanjaro in January with several “B” goals sprinkled in.

I’ve previously used the 24 week expedition plan and have done a fair amount of reading in the forum of last discussion topics for the training group.

I would suggest a plan like the following as you get ready for what the coaches load in Training Peaks.

Basic rules one rest day per week, strength/core 2x per week, all other workouts to be easy cardio. For cardio days monitor your HR and keep it at or below AeT. Strength/core days the HR doesn’t matter.

Example week as follows:
Monday: rest
Tuesday: Chamonix Mountain Fit
Wednesday: 45 min run/jog/walk at AeT hr or below.
Thursday rest of you feel fatigued, or easy 30 min recovery jog (10% less on HR vs other days – I.e. Zone 1).
Friday: Chamonix Mountain Fit
Saturday: 1 hr run/walk/jog
Sunday: 1:15 hike (ZERO pack weight), or run/walk/jog

Move days around as schedule permits. Value consistency (short time over many days) over quantity (long days on weekends only, or the like).

If you haven’t already seen CMF you can find it under the membership link on Uphill Athlete.

Beat of luck.
Cory

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on August 18, 2022 at 9:42 am · in reply to: My lab testing and Questions (VERY aerobically deficient?) #70034

Hi Slowandsteady,

I’m no expert, but I am surprised at your low aerobic threshold (AeT) results and would be very interested to see one of the coaches weigh in if there could be a methodology issue that may be throwing off your lab results. Using MAF a 31 year old should have an AeT of 149 (the formula is 180 minus your age), which would be closer to the nose breathing you reported at 140. As Jermey mentioned you may want to conduct a drift test to check the results of your labs – if there is a discrepancy I would go with the drift/nose breathing indication since the lab result was so low and may be suspect.

Also you mentioned needing to avoid lifting in your post because it could drive your HR above your AeT. Lifting is NOT an AeT driven activity and you needn’t worry about keeping your HR in Zone 2. There will be a lot of variation during lifting sets in which there may be full body sets that push your HR into Zone 3 and then you quickly settle into Zone 1 or 2 during the recovery period. And other sets may not spike the HR very high, but have a high local muscle fatigue. Just be sure to continue with a high volume of aerobic work (Z1/Z2) in addition to your lifting/strength work. I think I’ve seen the coaches recommend that those with ADS spend 90% of their training volume in Z1/Z2, so adjust accordingly. That could require dialing back your strength sessions or it could be increasing low intensity volume – just pay attention to your body and make sure you are recovering.

Good luck,
Cory

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on August 16, 2022 at 8:19 am · in reply to: Tendon Injury Podcast with Pete – Bicep Rehab? #69945

Just following up on this to say the rest significantly helped and I used the weight lifting described in the podcast as part of my recovery. I have since added in Pete’s additional recommendations above to hopefully ward off future injuries.

Thanks to UA for all the great content and advice.

Cory

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on August 16, 2022 at 7:54 am · in reply to: Overtraining vs fatigue #69944

Sounds like fatigue to me. When I jump into a plan after an extended break it always takes me a bit to adjust and I can generally feel the fatigue take hold after a week or two of accumulated work outs. Then as I progress it lessens, but I can still feel the fatigue accumulating by the time I get to a easy week – proving the need to cut back from time to time allowing the body to catch up.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on February 25, 2022 at 9:52 pm · in reply to: Mid-May Grand Teton Conditions/Avy Risk #63666

Thanks for the reply Mark! I shared your response with my team and we are all grateful for someone with your level of expertise and knowledge of the mountain to be weighing in. We’ll keep an eye on the weather but expect to be headed that way in May.