Good question Bill, a couple of considerations here I like for folks to take into account. What is available to them locally/regionally and what does their goal terrain look like. Many (most) trails are graded for ease of hiking and in some cases horse usage. This results in 6-12% gradients commonly. Many mountain peaks have terrain that follows glacial features and ridges that can be quite a bit steeper than this. Assuming your goal has some of this steeper terrain you want the training to mimic that to the extent possible, especially in the last 8-12 weeks before a goal climb. I would prioritize the steep terrain (17-20%) for the longest day of the week and the Forest Park terrain is fine for the shorter weekday outings. Although its certainly possible to use lower angle terrain to train successfully for steep terrain its never quite as good as you use your muscles a bit differently when the angle kicks up. If you have plenty of time on your hands to travel a bit to the steeper stuff then a second session per week can be helpful for sure.
MarkPostle
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ModeratorModeratorMarkPostle on February 24, 2022 at 8:59 pm · in reply to: 24 Week Expeditionary Mountaineering Training Plan #63630
Niv, They are slightly different but in general, the 24-week plan is just slightly harder than the intermediate level of our training group but definitely easier (less training duration) than the advanced level of our 2 sessions of 12 week training group. The overall aim, concepts and preparedness are similar. The 24 plan is a bit simpler and the group has a little more complexity. Hope that helps answer the question.
ModeratorMarkPostle on February 24, 2022 at 3:47 pm · in reply to: Mid-May Grand Teton Conditions/Avy Risk #63628In general May/June is a pretty stable time period as far as avy risk. If coming in May I would check out the avy forecast daily for the last couple weeks of April to get a feel for things, they usually stop forecasting by the end of April unless there’s a special weather event that warrants it. https://www.jhavalanche.org/. The Jenny Lake Rangers will usually have some kind conditions reports for the Grand although they certainly arent up there with the regularity they are later in the summer. If you get a solid stretch of weather and have the skill set for the additional challenges the snow presents, early summer can be a quiet time on the hill. Lots of ice ax work, some use of the rope on steep snow and rock/mixed climbing in crampons are pretty typical for that time of year.
ModeratorMatt, I have seen folks do that and it works fine. In general the lower the on the pack it can be rigged the better for ease of pulling the load. Some packs can be rigged from two points on the bottom outside of the pack depending on what you have there that’s structural but you have to be careful not to rig to anything that can rip off. For Denali the forces on the pull webbing can get pretty high occasionally and in a worst case scenario you would lose the sled and its contents.
ModeratorUmer, Heres a good video which breaks down the Turkish get up
If you’re not familiar with these start quite light and focus on good form. Once your form is decent then you can add weight bit by bit. I never go very heavy on these in this application as you just trying to get everything warmed up for the ME, this isn’t the main intent of the workout
ModeratorMarkPostle on February 21, 2022 at 3:38 pm · in reply to: Switching from CHAM FIT to Maximum Strength Training #63533Obviously depends on your background with max strength but I generally would have folks get through 8 weeks of Cham before swapping over to a max. Some of this of course is also dictated by your goal dates. If you want to implement max I usually go cham>> Max>>ME>>taper but this can vary with the athletes training history and their relative strength needs for their goal climbs.
ModeratorMarc, Very goal dependent but I have generally found the gym climbing to be pretty flexible with my athletes is its not super draining from a recovery perspective and mostly stresses smaller muscle groups. Tuesday can work if you do Chamfit in the AM the gym climb in the PM or vice versa, or commonly Saturday assuming Sunday is going to be the longer day. Unless you have very specific technical climbing goals I think doing a pyramid of routes where you build up over 4-5 routes to your onsight level, then try 2-3 route that are around your first try limit, then 2-3 easier routes really focusing on technique even though you may be a bit tired works well. I think stopping while you’re ahead in the gym and not ingraining poor/sloppy technique is key.
ModeratorWelcome Mercedes! Sport specific training is hugely helpful for your goals. Certainly a few trips up to Rainier for your long days will be helpful when that’s possible but also thinking about the nature of the terrain (distance, steepness, footing) and finding training hikes that mimic it is helpful as well. Many times finding terrain that is similar but more local is helpful this time of year when its to wintery to train effectively up higher. Once you regain fitness a couple of “overreaching” long hikes where you get up in altitude a bit up on Rainier towards Muir may be helpful from a training perspective but also will be great yardsticks for where you’re at especially as we move into Spring/summer and the conditions on Rainier become better for climbing. Lots of PNW folks in the group so I am sure they’ll chime in as well.
ModeratorBill, Using all my reserve to not make any trumpet comments.
Moving on, indeed a modest amount of running in the program is totally fine and can substitute for any of the aerobic hiking days. As your hiking goals approach of course the training should be a specific as possible but if 1-2 days a week are more running oriented then should be fine. We also have many athletes do their Zone 2 work in “running mode” where by they use a running gait for flats and downhills and a power hiking gait for the ups. This mixed with weighted pack work on other days works well.
ModeratorEchoing Steves thoughts here. An Ecuadorian guide friend of mine has commented that yes the first part of summit day is hard in that way but not measurably worse in the past years.
ModeratorIt depends a bit on what kind of activity you’re training for but in my experience with my coached athletes this type of stepper is not among the most effective. I like the incline trainer treadmill (up to 40%) the best if I had to pick one and probably the “stairmill” type machine second. There are 2 things about this type of stairmaster that I think make it a bit less effective, first since your feet never leave the pads there’s very little demand for having to “balance” with each new step and you lose some of that movement skill. Secondly you’re lifting your center of gravity very little with each step in that your weight and gravity push the step down as much as anything. On paper it seems like it should be good training somehow but when I have gotten out in the field with folks that spend a big chunk of their training volume on these type machines carrying a pack up a real hill is a more genuine challenge than it should be. How that helps guide your choices and of course if you found a screaming deal its way way better than not having a machine at all and not training!
ModeratorMarkPostle on February 16, 2022 at 3:02 pm · in reply to: ALL Zoom call Recordings posted here #63413Topic: MTG Training Call
Start Time: Feb 16, 2022 10:39 AMMeeting Recording:
https://us02web.zoom.us/rec/share/ax-u2H2Feu6HnMpaepMGD9Rl964rTm5yEl0uHcPZ0npdkhl03xs0QtiSBxWS8zU.eTa3io30ffmN-RHMAccess Passcode: ^v3b@762
ModeratorNiv, you certainly can do either, some of it is a personal choice about whether you like the video led work out or the gym based ME. As you’ve likely noticed the Cham level 4 purposely starts to cross the border into muscular endurance type work much more than levels one through three in my opinion. I would say one of the biggest differences is the ME we have in the training plan has a real progression over the 12 weeks where as with the Chamfit you run the risk of plateaus in your training. If you really like the Chamfit and are an advanced athlete you could add a light weight vest to progress the difficulty.
ModeratorMarkPostle on February 16, 2022 at 2:55 pm · in reply to: ME Climb – the inevitable questions :-) #63411Fritz, You certainly can do ME on the stairmaster or the box, I actually sometimes will integrate a split workout where people do some of each. I don’t necessarily think the box is superior to the stairmaster in a lot of ways but I do see that a lot of the machines like steep treadmill, or the stairmaster variations are different because you’re not totally lifting your center of gravity with each step but rather the “ground is disappearing out from under you” a bit if you understand my meaning. This is why my first choice is always for folks to train outside if they have really steep terrain which as we talked about not that many people actually do. I think there are also some nuances to the way that you move outside versus stepping up on a box versus the stair master where you don’t have to truly balance on the new leg once you step up in the same way and you lose a little bit of movement skills training there. That all said the stairmaster is definitely some folks best option and you can get a really quality work out there. The same principles apply with the stairmaster as with the other modes of doing it make sure that the load is heavy enough to get the desired effect and hit it hard for 45 to 60 minutes. Let me know how you get on!
ModeratorMarkPostle on February 16, 2022 at 11:21 am · in reply to: ME Climb – the inevitable questions :-) #63407Krish, The short answer is yes, you should certainly should be carrying enough weight that it slows you some and will also likely be slow enough to make your HR lower than a maximum paced unladen effort would be. Another way to think about this is that we want this workout to be very differentiated from the “normal” weekend long day with some weight. This should generally be steeper, quite a bit heavier, and you should be trying much harder. If moving the weight up the hill doesn’t seem like the problem when you’re doing this then you should add some weight and/or find steeper terrain.