Dominik, I glanced at the TP file you linked to and I would say there are several issues with this test that prevent any valid conclusion if that data is accurate. First, the first 30 min vs second 30 min method is can only be used if pace is perfectly constant like a treadmill etc. Here your pace is constantly varying as you’re running outside. Secondly the HR data is highly variable between 130 and 165 bouncing back and forth during the test, I can’t tell for sure but this appears to be due to slight up and down hill on the course. (Could also be HR monitor error). This will also make the test have non useful data as your effort level is varying well above and well below AeT likely. I would try and redo the test either on treadmill and use the first 30 vs second 30 method or on perfectly flat course like an athletic track and use the Pa:hr method. FWIW you drifted about 5% on this test when taking both pace and HR into account but I would not trust that data at all.
MarkPostle
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ModeratorModeratorMarkPostle on November 24, 2021 at 10:08 am · in reply to: Importing Garmin Data to UA Workout #59765
Saulj- for the drag and drop pairing It does help if they the planned workout and completed data file are the same category (although not always :)) and the planned workout cannot have any data in the completed column (ti will be red if its past the date) and vice versa for the completed data file. The TSS for the completed workout also needs to be rTSS or hrTSS it can’t be manually adjusted yet. This is a long way of saying pair the the files first and manually adjust TSS if you want afterwards.
ModeratorSbr, Steve may well weigh in here as well. With the packs in question assuming were talking about the same generation, I don’t attempt to put the rope under the “lid” but on top of the whole pack while using the cinch strap in “high” mode over the top. This works great for either volume (I do it a ton on the 25L) if the pack is full-ish which it generally is if I’m trying to put the rope on top. You have to unhook the metal toggle at the bottom of the pack and re-attach it to the higher anchor point then the metal hook end goes on the grab loop between the shoulder straps. Hope that makes sense, if not I can attach a pic when I get home next week.
ModeratorA lot of variables with this one (what kind of altitudes, how acclimated is the individual, how efficient they are at the activity etc) but heres my experience with it. Amount of work you can perform is greatly reduced that is for sure! I have seen a reduction in AeT for the folks I have tested at 2 different altitudes when they are at the higher altitude. (A second home in a mountain town is a common scenario here) How much less varies quite a bit between individuals and I suspect is also a function of how acclimated they are at the time of testing to some extent. If that applies to you I think its worth doing a second AeT drift test at the higher altitude to confirm. As for a trip like Ecuador indeed you want to be operating sub-AeT most of the time, the good news is you won’t have to worry about it as you don’t really have a choice on a 12 hour summit day ? Personally as much as I like data and metrics for training I get a little overwhelmed watch my HR on things like summit days and feel like it detracts from my experience a bit but mostly from my situational awareness of the surroundings. This is of course a bit individual but I like to go much more by feel than HR. It is important to note however that you will likely have a much high respiratory rate up high for a given work output so if you don’t have a lot of time at altitude it may subjectively feel quite hard. FWIW I have never had any luck what so ever with nose breathing once I get up high so I wouldn’t recommend that as a tool to gauge effort. I have included a link to an article on the website which is related to this and may help. It illustrates how the low oxygen environ really limits the available range of HR even to a very well trained athlete.
David Goettler and Ueli Steck Put Low-Intensity Training to the Test in the Khumbu
ModeratorYup this looks a bit better Roy. If you want to next week you could try it at 2.7 and just see what the drift looks like.
Your AeT and top of Z2 is the HR that you started the hour at. The two averages are just to determine drift they are not AeT. You’ll have to look at your data but with an average of 141 for first 30 min your AeT is 138 ish.
ModeratorRoy- There is a pretty wide range of AeT numbers for folks depending on their training history, physiology and age. 150+ is definitely at the higher end of the bell curve but totally believable. Mine is around 148 mostly due to physiology (I wish I could say it is brilliant training but its always been that way) Make sure you are thoroughly warmed up before you start the test as this throws the data off at times. I like to warm up for 20 minutes and then give another 5-10 minutes to make sure I’m finding a pace that stabilizes my starting HR right around my intended target. Once folks get to where they are drifting some but not 3-5% I will usually have them add 5 bpm to their starting HR for the next test. When you get up near your AeT you’ll see the drift increase and be able to dial it in.
ModeratorMarkPostle on November 19, 2021 at 8:53 am · in reply to: Where can I find the recordings of the Zoom calls? #59554Roy- The top post of the forum here is a sticky post that will house all the Zoom calls. They get posted about 24 hours after the call has been completed. Thanks.
ModeratorMatt and Edgar – Some good comments here. As mentioned you obviously can’t focus on all the things at once and improve upon them all. Your already well trained aerobic capacity for mountaineering, your 5k time and 1 RM max DL arent all going to improve at once with some magic programming. That’s not to say they’re 100% unrelated or that you can’t do a little work to hold ground. For folks that have a long history of lifting heavy in the gym I doubt that any more improvement there will be the thing that gets you to the summit. You will actually want to backslide a little on some of your lifting numbers to donate that time and recovery capacity to more sport specific Zone 1/2 aerobic work. I have had athletes before experiment with the minimum amount of heavy lifting they can do during times of other focus that they can do to hold some ground there if that’s important to them. I have seen pretty good results with even 1 session every 9-10 days for holding quite a bit of ground there. As for the things like heavy ME water carries they are coming in the next session of the training group as most folks goals are a bit closer. We have found the best result in running those type of ME workouts later in the training cycle then tapering off before the goal. (They tend to have a pretty high recovery cost so we don’t run them forever) That being the case you may want to supplement the current training with a maintenance dose of squats and DL during this current cycle. Very dependent on the individual but many well trained mountaineers can recover from 2 Chamfit workouts/week and still mix in a low volume of heavy lifts to keep some of that stimuli going.
ModeratorA bit niche but theres some good content on thefirnline.com Its pretty Alaska centric but I know you’re headed for Denali next year so you may find it of interest
ModeratorEdgar- I second some of Nates thoughts in his earlier post, I don’t actually rest step in the classic sense when dragging the sled for the reasons he mentioned. (I don’t pressure breathe either) Don’t tell anyone or they’ll probably kick me out of the secret denali guide cool kids club. I do rest step when up high and not dragging the piggy around. I’ve never really found a super good way to simulate this motion in training as its seems so specific to altitude and its limitation. The amount of weight I would have to carry to really simulate this 400-500’/hour of vertical gain kind of pace would likely be more than I could hold standing up without risking injury. (For reference the heavy weighted ME pack carries with 50-60 pounds I’ve done I am gaining about 2000’+ per hour) This is one of the rare cases where I wouldn’t worry to terribly much about training specificity and if you build the aerobic base, do the prescribed weighed pack carries and strength work you’ll be fine. As such I find the single leg movement in the Chamfit and or things like single leg box step ups/down quite useful in the strength realm as opposed to bilateral strength movements like some of the 2 leg squats as they’re much less specific and don’t have similar balance demands for getting established on the “new” foot placement. I have prescribed things like 60 min of weighted box steps before in training but more as a “last resort” mode for folks that don’t have access to other ways to get their vertical in but not so much as a reststep practice. That said there may be some ancillary benefit there. Just tell your Denali guide to kick the trail in with perfectly flat steps so it best simulates your training on the box!
ModeratorMarkPostle on November 17, 2021 at 1:37 pm · in reply to: pushing AeT up from below – how big a difference is too much? #59445Edgar- A few additional thoughts here. Firstly I find for some of my athletes getting to within 10% difference from AeT to AnT just isn’t realistic do to restraints in time, recovery capacity and/or genetics. The take home message in my mind is to try and minimize the difference but realize not everyone will get to 10% (its good to have goals ;)) Secondly my experience is poorly trained athletes can move the needle a fair bit on their actual AeT HR and their zones change a bit with proper training, once folks are moderately well trained the pace at that heart rate is where most of needle moving occurs. Some of this initial improvement is certainly improvement in aerobic metabolism but I think a lot is also just also getting strong enough that they move in a way to get accurate HR data. When folks train by HR on the same course locally they will often come to us and say they improved their time by a certain amount whilst maintaining the same avg HR and perceived effort.
ModeratorEdgar- Without getting to far into the weeds here it is OK to mix energy systems in the same workout. For our purposes in the early phases of training in this group for mountaineering objectives there isn’t any real call for it for most folks, but you’re in a slightly different place with running objectives that are coming up. I will prescribe “progressive” workouts for my athletes at times that hit several systems or intensity work at the beginning of a workout then a long low intensity “cooldown”. I like to frame it more as thinking about which energy system you’re prioritizing in a given part of a workout. It quickly devolves into semantics but in my mind most every workout is already “mixed” since even fairly low intensities burn some glycogen and quite high intensities still have a fat burning portion in well trained athletes. Thus it had never made sense to me when folks say you can’t mix them as you’re already always mixing them, its just a matter of what energy system are you trying to stress and whether there’s an advantage to trying to stress more than one in a single session. With climbers I think its easier to keep them separate but with competitive running training its a bit more complex.
ModeratorMarkPostle on November 14, 2021 at 7:31 am · in reply to: Wahoo workouts showing up as unplanned #59287Michal, Yes that’s right you can drag and drop them on top of each other to “force pair” It also helps if they are of the same type I.e. Both “runs” or “strength” etc. Also it work better to pair first the adjust TSS later. I haven’t found a way to do it from Mobile (there is a “completed as Planned” button you can use if there is no data) but admittedly as a coach I use the mobile platform very infrequently so there may be a few tricks in there I haven’t seen.
ModeratorUmer- I looked at your account and I don’t see any “unpaired” workouts. Did you get it to work or maybe you just put that data in manually??
ModeratorBill- Many folks at UA (including a few coaches) have been surprised at the subtle difficulties of the Chamfit workouts even at the lower levels. Neil makes it look easier than it really is! We encourage folks not to rush to the next level but really dig into the level you’re currently at (#1 for most folks) and get the movements dial in and clean. Keep at it!