Some good thoughts here from the posts above. If your climbing goals are such that you’ll be wearing boots then I do think there some benefit to spending some of the training time in boots. They’re heavier and stiffer obviously than running shoes and stress your hip flexors and feet differently. I use a “retired” pair of single leather mountaineering boots for heavy weighted ME pack carries and the some of the longest day workouts. This seems to do the trick for me. As mentioned above of course if you arent climbing regularly in your “good” boots or you have a new pair then its worth a couple of shakedown sessions to iron out any potential kinks in the interaction between the boots and your feet before a big goal climb. For folks going to very cold environs in an Oly Mons type boot you need to be gentle with them, the sole is basically just foam without a high durometer rubber and isn’t meant for prolonged session hiking in sharp rock etc.
MarkPostle
Forum Replies Created
-
ModeratorModeratorMarkPostle on July 9, 2022 at 1:12 pm · in reply to: Connecting training plans with objectives #68998
Jeremy, Glad to hear you’ve responded well to the training over the last year! That’s a great improvement being able to move at 2X with more weight. To answer your question yes I would try and extend the training in the 3-4 weeks on/1 week rest pattern until you can slowly increase your vertical gain and pack weight to approach those appropriate for your (eventual) goals. If the goal climb isn’t until next year then I would prioritize getting in a solid volume of training first then probably vertical gain/loss second then maximizing pack weight last. If you have a very specific goal (like Rainer) then you will also want to start thinking about what the actual pack weight you’ll need to carry is vs 25% BW. If you’re a small framed person you may need to exceed 25% occasionally to be as ready as possible. If you using the beginner level training plan at the moment and doing well then you could progress to the intermediate next session as its written to pickup the progression where the beginner left off.
ModeratorChad, Indeed you can use a box step WO as a replacement for a hike with vertical gain/loss and I have used that exact kind of workout with success in the past. A couple of things to consider- As it will have a lot of vertical you may need to actually reduce the pack weight and or the step height a bit in order to get your HR up into the desired zone for you. I have had good luck with folks using a 12″ box and 15-20 pounds but increasing the tempo a bit. This will move it more towards and aerobic endurance workout and away from muscular endurance. A couple of potential down sides to consider. I think its valuable to get outside on trails even if the vert isn’t amazing as training 100% of the time on machines or indoors will produce very repetitive movement patterns and sometimes not help with your balance and ability to move on uneven terrain so make sure you’re getting outside when you’re able. Secondly and may be the biggest downside to long duration boxstep workouts is just boredom, this is a bit individual of course. I will sometimes program a split session where athletes will run outside for 60 minutes unladen and then dive straight into an indoor session of box steps with a bit of additional weight for another 60 minutes to break up the monotony but still provide some simulated vertical gain.
You mentioned here looking for a versa climber which does have some benefits for training, personally if I had to own just one machine for indoor training it would probably be an incline treadmill that goes up to 40% like the NordicTrack x22i etc.ModeratorTopic: Uphill Athlete’s Personal Meeting Room
Start Time: Jun 29, 2022 09:19 AMMeeting Recording:
https://us02web.zoom.us/rec/share/EIhgWNvtQhcDA6ElWxYjqjq9DppO-wJDuAFOYgt4UJGXRL54iYFYbWr0AIRs3PGG.Mkd9VAe2WZkQT3xVAccess Passcode: wg=!=Lp7
ModeratorMarkPostle on June 27, 2022 at 5:11 pm · in reply to: Gap between planned and actual IF of a particular workout @MarkPostle #68603Yes its confusing. TrainingPeaks generates these automatically when I build the program in case someone is using that metric as a target. For me personally its just one more thing to worry about that has very limited benefit ??
ModeratorMarkPostle on June 27, 2022 at 5:08 pm · in reply to: Adding elevation gained and weight carried to HrTSS #68602Indeed the link that Victor posted above explains it well. There are many variations of course and theories behind them. I think the most important thing is to adopt a system and stick with it so that you can compare apples to apples over time. I only use the 10 TSS if its 1000 FT gained and lost (outside) otherwise I use 5 TSS per 1000 ft gain only (treadmill/stepper). I don’t actually think there’s that much training stress for “up only” machine vertical gain that isn’t already captured by the hrTSS. For pack weight its way messier. Personally I dont think its worth the hassle of calculating exact TSS fudge for every possible pack weight although it wouldn’t be wrong to do so. I’ll just add approximately 10 points for every 10% of BW. Of course 10 points for a 30 minutes workout is way to much and 10 points for a 10-hour hike isn’t significant so feel free to adjust as you see fit. In reality if you’re well trained a 10-20% pack shouldn’t be adding that much training stress that isn’t getting captured by the HR already. (a ton of descending would be an exception)
ModeratorMarkPostle on June 26, 2022 at 2:43 pm · in reply to: Gap between planned and actual IF of a particular workout @MarkPostle #68537Advait, Short answer is no, I ignore IF and just go by duration and target HR. Longer answer is IF originally comes out of cycling metrics and tries to gauge intensity with finding the ratio between Normalized power and FTP (functional threshold power). This works pretty well with really accurate power measurements in the cycling world but less well once you stray into footbourne training so I just ignore it.
ModeratorKeith, Yes in general we do see a reduction in AeT as altitude increases. I have seen this most concretely with athletes that spend significant amounts of time at 2 different elevations then do a second AeT drift test up high to re calibrate. This would be folks that take extended summer vacations up high or live in ski towns in the winter etc. Very generally for these I would say I have seen about a 5 BPM reduction in AeT once the individual is well acclimated. For higher elevations like you mention here I don’t have a solid data as we’re not having folks do AeT tests for an apples to apples comparison but my gut feeling is it’s closer to 10 BPM assuming you’re acclimated. One of the wild cards here is most all trips t that 4-6000 meter range are happening with incomplete acclimatization. You’re likely just spending enough time to “get the job done” and get down. This is a bit of a different discussion but as Scott may have mentioned here I am a huge proponent of trying to get a feel for how your body works when you go to altitude, what kind of pace is sustainable over the course of a summit day, and what is the corresponding subjective effort level. This is for a couple of reasons. One what the target HR should be is always going to be changing bit as you ascend and as you acclimate (or don’t) where as the subjective effort level is more constant. Secondly as your climbing goals get bigger and more involved constantly monitoring your HR becomes a logistical problem/hazard. Climbing safely/competently, navigating, making sure youre eating, watching the weather etc will at some point require all of your limited faculties at altitude and trying to make sure your HR is dialed into a certain number (that might not be right anyway) isn’t the best/wisest use of your energy. By going by “feel” a bit in training and certainly when you go on bigger outings you can teach yourself what the correct effort is for you and it will be more second nature. Hope this helps!
ModeratorIndeed its tough to gauge the intensity if you haven’t done this kind of 30-45min max effort a lot. Most folks tend to start out to hot then either blow up or need to slow down considerably. In a perfect world your pace is pretty even the whole time but your perception will be that’s its slowly getting a bit tougher to maintain as you go. The last 5 min will feel quite hard if you’ve done it correctly. It takes most folks a couple of tries to get it right.
ModeratorFor the goal in question I would start the taper with a slightly reduced volume the last big weekend (chop about 25% of the volume) then do a normal rest week which should be a little more than 50% of your previous weeks volume. I don’t like to change a ton in the make up of the taper week just scale the whole thing down.
For returning to training from a Rainier it should look about the mirror image of the taper to ramp back up. That said depending on how your trip goes and your recovery path you may well need more time for rest on the backside.
ModeratorJeremy, You certainly can use a steep treadmill incline for the AnT. What ideally is consistent over the course of the test is the effort. It should be a max effort that is sustainable for the time frame of the test (in this case 30 min) You can certainly make little adjustments to the pace and/or the incline over the course of the test, if you need to make huge changes you likely misjudged the starting intensity. I have folks newer to training do the test for 30 min, folks that are fairly well trained 45 min and those in the very best shape 60min. Your avg HR for the duration of the test is your AnT. Make sure your well warmed up.
ModeratorMarkPostle on June 20, 2022 at 10:55 pm · in reply to: Most productive lower-body/leg strength exercises #68398My top 3 would be box step ups, step down heel touch, and Bulgarian split squats with rear leg raised about 12″ or so to start.
ModeratorIndeed 20 min is long enough. There is some evidence that very gentle exercise to 20 min on restdays and/or on hard training days aids in recovery. The key here is that it need to be very gentle. Walking, gentle cycling or swimming can all check the box if done correctly.
ModeratorNice Chad! Way to seize the opportunity and get it done. A testament to your determination for sure. One of (many) benefits to training for specific goals is you always have a pretty high basic level of fitness and can snatch a few other plums along the way!
ModeratorTopic: Uphill Athlete’s Personal Meeting Room
Start Time: Jun 15, 2022 10:49 AMMeeting Recording:
https://us02web.zoom.us/rec/share/M2gdEQmyMng0ph_X7cBiMqCaBVMyZ8ZSnjLTzzGBWqNFcKUpYc07N_TwAq6-ECbm.mbhlrfIDtHPh9U7VAccess Passcode: M$!Yjz5$