[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on May 21, 2023 at 6:00 pm · in reply to: Does uphill athlete recommend incline treadmill or stair master? #78385

To add another voice here, the stairmill is a great training tool. I’m a flat lander and as a result I’ve spent countless hours on them training with pack and with body weight. Last year my meniscus was messed up and I could run, but could hike on the stairmill and used it for ALL of the Z2 work as part of the fall training group in preparation for a successful trek of Kilimanjaro. Overall I’m a big fan for those that don’t have regular access to mountains.

This is not a knock on treadmills, but unless you have access to an incline trainer that goes above 15%, my strong preference for simulating mountains is the stairmill. Now if you are doing MTN running or something else, then maybe the treadmill is a better tool, but for Rainier I find the stairmill superior. Although when I first went up Rainier I trained with a treadmill and had a very successful summit. Consistency is very important, as is training for the pack weight.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on March 29, 2023 at 4:41 pm · in reply to: AeT Heart Drift Test with no access to treadmill #76715

I can’t speak for everyone, but the run walk combo for me gives bad results and causes HR fluctuations. I’ve tried this on a treadmill with a pack and couldn’t get things to even out, nor did I want to run with a pack. Any chance you could get a day pass at a local gym and do the test on a treadmill there?

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on March 29, 2023 at 4:34 pm · in reply to: TSS Ramp Rate Decreasing w/ Increased Volume #76714

If I’m understanding your post correctly, your CTL was advancing 10 per month and has dropped to advancing 4 per month. The key being that you are still progressing. Others with more knowledge of the CTL calculation can chime in, but my understanding is the formula looks at a 42 day rolling window and applies a weighted average based on TSS that provides higher weighting based on how recent the workout was. That’s why you can see a big pop after super hard days in the mountains.

To keep growing the CTL you need to progressively increase the difficulty of your workouts (e.g. TSS) or add more volume (e.g increase total TSS) or you will eventually plateau.

I wouldn’t focus too much on the number as long as you are continuing to train consistently, you are progressively challenging your self (slowly increasing volume and/or intensity), and you are taking appropriate recovery weeks to combat fatigue and help lock in the gains.

I seem to recall feeling pretty darn good the first time I hit the third block on the 24 week plan. Hang in there and trust the process.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on December 13, 2022 at 10:07 am · in reply to: AeT Test completed on Elliptical #73642

Not sure how you acquired the data, but unless the machine is also feeding your pace data into training peaks, I don’t believe the pa:hr calculation can be used. It works for outdoor data where you are layering GPS data (pace) and HR, but the recommendation for indoor tests is to set the treadmill at a constant speed and then manually compare your HR drift over the duration of the workout. This is done by comparing the avg HR for the first half (after warm up) to the average HR for the second half and seeing if its in the 3-5% drift. Over 5% drift and your starting HR was too high, under 3% and your starting HR was too low. It appears you are trying to combine both methods into one test.

If the elliptical machine did not track pace and you are relying on your own ability to keep pace at your desired RPM, I wonder if that is accurate enough? I would imagine there are some small fluctuations over the hour that may impact your results. Assuming the pace was 100% stable, the starting target of 153 would be the top end of your Z2 (also tied to your AeT). The 154 and 159 are just to measure the drift, but the HR that matters for the top of the Z2 is the starting HR for the test, so set your top of Z2 at 154 in Training Peaks.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on December 13, 2022 at 9:37 am · in reply to: Hilly hike, indoor vs outdoor #73638

As a guy from the midwest, I find that our steep hills are not long enough to hold my HR in Z2 for extended periods of time and as a result I may be able to get the desired amount of vert, but the workout is largely Z1 vs. the desired Z2. As an example, I did a 2.5 hr pack carry at a local park last Friday with a 35# pack and while I was able to get 2k of elevation gain throughout the workout, I spent 1:50 in Zone 1 and only 38 min in Z2. Basically HR drops fast on the downhill, takes a bit to rise on the uphill, and is only in Z2 for the last half of my hill. Rinse and repeat.

For this reason I often find myself going to the gym and jumping on a stair mill for the longer Z2 weighted carries. Not only can I get more elevation gain (even after adjusting for the stairs falling away) but I can pretty much dial my HR into Z2 and hold it there for the full duration of the workout.

I agree with Richard that the stair mill or other inside training modalities do not train the downhill muscles. But the gym based ME in the program helps to develop the muscles traditionally worked by hiking downhill – and I find it doesn’t stress the knee joint the say way as if I hike down hill with a heavy pack. Thus the gym based ME helps with my durability for when I truly need it on an outside objective, but avoids the repeated stress from training. But I might sing a different tune if I had mountains in my back yard.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on November 22, 2022 at 4:50 pm · in reply to: Training zones following the heart or the lungs? #72808

Others on the forum have explained that some athletes with severe ADS will be able to maintain nose breathing at very high heart rates. For this reason you cannot rely on nose breathing tests as the sole indicator of effort. If you try and train at the max you can nose breathe your HR will be too high and you will not actually improve your aerobic system and will beat yourself into the ground.

Use HR as the threshold indicator (but know it does change day to day and can improve over time). I would suggest doing a HR drift test to determine your AeT and then spending ~90% of your training in Z2 or Z1.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on November 22, 2022 at 4:39 pm · in reply to: How to get 2,000 ft vert within timeframe of workout (vertically challenged) #72807

How steep is your hill? Are you not getting the elevation target because the trail doesn’t have much incline, or is the steepness restricting your pace and it just takes you that long to do 1k?

Depending on your fitness and training background you will likely get faster at the same HR as you progress through a plan. This could help solve your issue if the trail is sufficiently steep.

If you simply need a steeper trail, you may want to try indoors on a stair master to see how it goes. Only problem with a stair master is the elevation gain needs to be “adjusted” since the stair is falling away as you step up. Most on UA take the elevation gain and divide it in half. So for an hour you would want to see 2k of gain on the stairmill.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on November 19, 2022 at 10:55 am · in reply to: Sick stay in bed or go for it? #72755

Depends on how sick 😉

If it’s the start of a cold I load up on some zicam and vitamin c supplements as soon as I feel it coming on and keep working through it. If it’s bad enough that I feel the need to stay in bed then I’ll keep up on the supplements, but rest up and hope I’m only down for a day or two. Hydration is helpful too.

The worst is needing rest, pushing through and then losing a week because I didn’t listen to my body.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on November 15, 2022 at 12:39 pm · in reply to: subbing in Ice climbing specific training #72649

Hello fellow uphill athletes and coaches. I’m curious on your thoughts about how to pack the most into a workout without giving up the desired training result and thought this might be the appropriate post to tag onto.

Background: in addition to the prescribed intermediate workouts, I am also trying to systematically mix in some max strength (and ultimately ME) for ice climbs. Usually I will just supplement the extra time needed (such as doing a prescribed workout in morning and adding the ice specific workout to the evening), but there are weeks where work or family won’t permit that.

Example A: What are your thoughts on breaking up a Z2 recovery walk/jog and adding in some ice strength (from Steve’s article on training for Ice/Mixed). As in warm up on treadmill, keep treadmill running and jump off to do a set of weighted pull up’s and max hangs on tools, then jump back on treadmill for 3 min while strength recovers. Repeat for 6 sets. Then do sets of incline pull ups and leg raises, hopping on the treadmill for the 3 min recovery for 6 sets, then a final couplet would consist of lock-offs and toe raises with time on treadmill between sets.

I’m pretty sure it ticks the box on the max strength component, but how much does this approach ding me on the recovery? Other than calf raises it’s really upper body focused.

Example B: Thoughts on same type of couplet max strength work, but added to the lower body gym based ME work.

This would require adding more rest than prescribed between the ME exercises (2-3 min vs 60 seconds and dropping as we progress).

My gut tells this may be compromising the leg based ME. I also wonder if the total load/global fatigue may be a bit high.

Thoughts? Have others experimented with this?

Thanks!
Cory

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on November 4, 2022 at 11:25 am · in reply to: Anaerobic Threshold Test Gone Terribly Wrong #72316

I too would lean toward HR monitor issue. Just a thought: Do you have a trace of the HR for the full duration? I’ve seen issues at times when I used my Apple Watch (series 6) without the chest strap and for some reason due to tightness or too much movement or the like, the watch only grabbed partial HR data and then when it averages its something completely off. But for me it was because the only good data it had to average was at the start during warm up, not during the actual activity.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 31, 2022 at 12:32 pm · in reply to: How much Z3 a week is too much? #72220

Having trouble linking the article, but you can search for the “Slow and Steady Is Boring. Is It Necessary?” article on UA by Scott Semple. It basically says that 90 percent of your training volume should be at or below AeT and only once you have some fundamentals in place should you start adding intensity. Mind you, this is coming from a competitive athlete and your goals may differ, but its probably worth asking yourself what your goals are and if they trump periodic ski tour with friends. Each person will answer differently – but there is a good chance that if you have ADS, your outing with friends will make it take longer to fix your ADS.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 28, 2022 at 9:18 am · in reply to: Gym Muscular Endurance (ME) during recovery week #72156

Thats my understanding and exactly what I do. As an example, if my normal workout is 6 sets of 8 reps, during the recovery week I drop to 3 sets of 8 reps.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 24, 2022 at 4:35 pm · in reply to: How fast does lactate drop? #71821

I would be interested in this as well. But my interest is more in the sense of if I push the HR into Z3 and use the anaerobic process, how long do I have to be back in Z2 before anaerobic shuts down and returns to aerobic. I know it’s not a binary on/off for both systems, but have wondered how long it takes to return to aerobic function after exceeding the limit on a short stretch of trail.

Put another way, how long does it take to have the anaerobic system kick in. Do short pickups start to transition into an anaerobic state, or are they short enough that you remain aerobic?

I’m guessing this is covered in one of the books, but I don’t remember off hand.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 24, 2022 at 8:07 am · in reply to: Trouble raising HR to Z2 on long hikes #71807

Thinking out loud on this, but if the 30# hike felt like more work, does that indicate that is where you should focus? Maybe need more adaptation with a pack and focused training would help. That was part of the take away I had from last Wednesday’s call – if it feels harder, then maybe we need to do it more (this was in the context of gym based ME vs. pack carry ME workouts, but I’m assuming it applies broadly too). Not sure of your objectives, but I seldom venture into the mountains without a pack – although it’s not always 30#.

[Cory from Wisconsin]

Cory from Wisconsin on October 24, 2022 at 7:52 am · in reply to: Calf raises #71806

On a mountain you will often be in stiff soles boots and the stress on the calf is different than when wearing running shoes or other more flexible footwear. The use of boots also helps simulate the stress of front pointing with crampons. This is especially useful for ice climbers.

An easy progression is to move from doing them on the ball of the foot, to doing them off the toe of the foot, and ultimately one could wear crampons and do the raise off the front points. Much harder as you shift the fulcrum point forward.