Everyones a bit different but for most of my coached athletes that are trying to combine aerobic training with technical climbing they’re are able to combine both in a given week fairly easily. Cragging/gym climbing etc has a pretty low recovery drain compared with high volume aerobic training so you can do them both. For folks that are weekend driven I will commonly prescribe a shorter aerobic session on Sat AM along with cragging in the afternoon, a long aerobic day on Sunday, restday Monday. This seems to yield good results without over training. As you mention its not realistic to progress abilities in both areas at once for most folks so just getting out and enjoying the climbing without being super goal oriented while you’re trying to progress the aerobic fitness makes a lot of sense.
MarkPostle
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ModeratorModeratorMarkPostle on April 9, 2022 at 11:08 pm · in reply to: Fitness (CTL) needed for a specific peak #65376
Fritz, I do have rough CTL numbers that make me feel a bit more warm and fuzzy when folks head off to certain peaks. For things like Whitney/Grand Teton/Rainier/Hood a CTL of 70-80 seems prudent and for more demanding peaks like Acon/Denali/Everest 90-120. I realize the peaks in those groups are not all exactly the same in difficulty but it gives you an idea. Ultimately I feel like CTL is a proxy for volume so it’s not an exact science of course but rather a good starting place for a discussion. For example, I feel better about someone who has a CTL of 85 slowly grown over a 24 month period with lots of sport-specific work in the final months than someone with a CTL of 115 that only encompasses 4 months of training with lots of cycling and rowing for instance. That said where I think CTL becomes very useful is for comparison with your own past years/training cycles as you progress. If it peaked at 80 last year and you climbed your goal peak and felt solid then hitting 90 this year for a slightly more difficult peak makes a lot of sense. For determining “readiness I like to look at 1) Are you recovering from the training load? (if not everything else is moot) 2) Have you been feeling strong on intermediate goals/training climbs? 3) Lastly I look at metrics like CTL.
ModeratorKeith, yes I will commonly program some aerobic work on the same day as strength and they can be back to back in certain circumstances as you mentioned. One of the issues with having a rest day a week and two strength days is it only leaves four days for aerobic training. As we advance the training that’s not really frequent enough stimuli for a lot of folks to move the needle as far as aerobic capacity so then I start building a bit into the strength days as well. For those aerobic sessions that are back to back with strength it is generally zone one or zone two work, sometimes with a light or medium pack but rarely is it intensity or very heavily weighted. Hope that helps answer your question.
ModeratorKeith, Just so I am clear are you talking abut layering them on 2 consecutive days or doing both workouts the same day??
ModeratorIndeed maybe the next Zoom would be a good chance to kick around the concepts of tapering for different goals and how to show up as rested and fit as possible!
ModeratorFritz, All good questions. I like to make sure folks prioritize “training” modes that really appeal to them in the off season to prevent burnout and keep things fun. You could definitely replace a good chunk of your Z1 and Z2 base work with cycling instead of hiking/running especially in the August – October time frame. I track everything in TrainingPeaks using the hrTSS so ideally the CTL score is apples to apples comparable year to year. This is of course with the understanding that a CTL of 75 (or whatever number you want to pick) that is all hiking will have you better prepared for mountain climbing than the same CTL that is 50% cycling. As I’m sure you plan to move into a more sport specific phase over the winter/spring that is totally fine. I think the “off” season is a good time to focus on strength work, climbing technique/movement skill if that’s applicable to your goals and keeping a bit of weighted hilly hiking in the program so the transition back to focused training isn’t too rough.
ModeratorMarkPostle on April 5, 2022 at 2:25 pm · in reply to: I messed up My TP calendar…hopefully someone can help #65207The un-refreshed browser window has caused many a woes with TP. I think it tries not to be too bandwidth heavy but in that effort things get bogged down in the server caches frequently. I refresh the page pretty much every time I sit down to do anything on TP.
ModeratorBarrett, Great you’re brushing up. Crevasse rescue is tough as its rarely practiced by most folks and then how you actually do it in the field is very situational. In reality the 2 times I have had to do it I didn’t use a 3:1 z pulley setup either time. (You commonly have enough people its unnecessary or so few it isn’t helpful) Regardless its good to refresh as much as you can, I find the video series linked below to be fairly helpful on the topic. Theres about 6 videos covering building the anchor to hauling.
ModeratorKrish, It is not critical that the longer one come second. The more important thing is that it works for your schedule and you get them done. I do think there’s a point to be made for doing the longer one last late in training before a goal climb to simulate a longer day on somewhat prefatigued legs but this is a fine point. Move them as needed.
ModeratorReposted below seems like it’s working now.
ModeratorTopic: MTG Training Call
Start Time: Mar 30, 2022 10:48 AMMeeting Recording:
https://us02web.zoom.us/rec/share/p64B85P2IcZ0CpXO8nLoov4S1jXOWhFt7IsMrx4OUlVsCtPCwMIUt0iGxJ1F_UU.WAM4ZXDbRLFAUfKvAccess Passcode: F+R7$vY9
ModeratorMarkPostle on April 3, 2022 at 8:47 pm · in reply to: moving workouts within a training week? #65031– How much effect does moving training types within a week have? For example, in my current program there are two Z2 hikes a week, on Saturday and Sunday. The way my schedule works, the best days for me to do them may be Thursday and Sunday.
Within reason zone two type hikes are fairly forgiving with regards to rearranging the schedule. I have several athletes that will do a fairly beefy mid week zone to session as well as a Sunday. As long as you’re recovering from the workouts that should be fine.
– How much effect does swapping the “hard hike” and the “easy hike” or the “recovery” hikes have?
You can swap them but there are times like the day after an intensity session or a muscular endurance session where a really easy or recovery level hike makes a lot of sense.
– If I am due for a “recovery” or “consolidation” week and I have a couple of Z2 hikes planned (I am taking a mountaineering course with scheduled hikes) is it better to push the recovery or consolidation week back?
If your schedule is such that a busy week falls on what would normally be a consolidation week I would probably push the consolidation week back instead of making it a pseudo consolidation week that ends up not really getting at the goal. If the week of the mountaineering course ends up being a fourth build week and you’re carrying some fatigue you might consider just doing easy zone one work on Thursday and Friday of that week for instance to make sure that you’re not drained heading into the weekend.
ModeratorAs long as everything’s going well and you feel like you’re not overly fatigued than I would say that one consolidation week before transitioning into the next cycle makes total sense.
ModeratorMarkPostle on April 3, 2022 at 8:41 pm · in reply to: I messed up My TP calendar…hopefully someone can help #65029I will take a look at your plan and let you know
ModeratorThere will definitely be some red and then probably some yellow to follow. You have a nice fat consistent training volume so your aerobic capacity will withstand some time off and bounce back relatively quickly once you back to full steam. Be glad its Denali in a couple months and youre not leaving for Everest next week!