Roy- Sounds like youre doing it right and indeed a little below your AeT. I would try it again with a starting post warmup HR of around 130 and see where your are at for drift. You could plug into whatever training day works next week. In regards to having an AeT in the 150s yes that is higher than is typical I would say 135 is middle of the bell curve. I would completely disregard any Zone information that is auto generated by trainingpeaks or Garmin etc.
MarkPostle
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That’s actually a really solid amount of vert for a long session. You can do a lot with a few short steep hills and some creativity. Your plan to move towards sport specificity seems like a solid one and if youre currently doing 20 milers with 3K’ of vert then your in a good place fitness wise. If you can channel that aerobic base into some vertical with a weighted pack at times you’ll be where you need to be for Denali no problem by spring. You might also start looking for an old tire to drag around the neighborhood later in the training cycle to simulate the sled. 🙂
ModeratorEdgar- I’m actually kind of amazed we got to over 100 comments on the forum before someone asked about cross-training. There are a LOT of variables here but I’ll take the first crack at it. Steve and Nate may weigh in as well. Certainly non-sport specific training has its place in certain training phases and amounts. Personally, I like to see the last 4 months of training in the run up to a goal climb be as sport specific as reasonable. If your goal climb is 6 months out and youre doing 8 hours/week of hiking/running and 2 hours of bike/rowing I think that’s perfectly acceptable. If your goal is 6 weeks out and half of your training is swimming then you’re doing yourself a real disservice. For sure running can be abusive at high volumes for a lot of folks and you need to monitor that, depending on what you have for terrain I like to see folks shift to things that use a hiking gait for a good chunk of their training to combat that. (My recollection from the forum is you don’t live in Chamonix ;)) You need to have a way to get your HR into the right zipcode of course which is hard when you don’t live near big hills. Incline treadmill, steep normal treadmill, stairmill and really tall buildings with stairs can provide aerobic training opportunities that have fairly limited impact but fairly high sport specificity. I have also had athletes who are trying to limit the abuse do split sessions on a long day, where they’ll cycle for the first half of the time period then finish with a run right after so their getting the cardio benefit of the long day and at least finishing the training with something foot bourne and quasi-sport specific. Depending on your specific goals, how serious you are about climbing and how you made out on last years tax returns you may want to consider investing in an incline trainer if you have mindset where your able to train indoors.
ModeratorTammy, In general you can add additional training in the Zone 1 and 2 intensities to the build weeks especially if you are already doing similar volumes AND you are recovering day to day well. One Caveat, I would be careful about adding any training to the restday (one per week) or beefing up the Consolidation week (Week #4 in current plan)
ModeratorMarkPostle on November 8, 2021 at 10:14 am · in reply to: Cham Fit & Mobility Workouts – Sync with Garmin #589771 hour of Zone 2 will be about 50TSS. (Just for background, by definition 1 hour of full tilt cycling is 100TSS) If you’re using hrTSS (not rTSS which is worthless if hilly) and it’s way off of that I would check your threshold heart value. Go under settings>>zones in the top left corner under “default heart rate” There is a field labeled threshold heart rate. This should be your AnT Anaerobic threshold. You may not know that number so you can just guess for now, AeT Aerobic threshold +20 bpm is a decent ballpark, maybe +25 if you haven’t done much training recently.
ModeratorLove this thread, also following along. I second the notion of doing an AeT drift test both while on the meds and not to get a feel for the scale of the difference. It would also be interesting to look at the times you log on a known “home course” that you do regularly at the same avg HR but one having taken the meds before hand. My guess is the differences will be modest enough that even whilst on the meds you can still train within 10% of your AeT times and thus be in Zone 2 either way just maybe towards the bottom of Z2 in term of “effort” from a muscular and neuro sense. If the intensity you’re doing the aerobic endurance training at is lower than ideal you may be able to make up a bit of the lost ground from a muscular/neuro standpoint with ME type weighted carries etc when that is appropriate in the training cycle.
ModeratorMarkPostle on November 8, 2021 at 6:53 am · in reply to: Cham Fit & Mobility Workouts – Sync with Garmin #58964Umer- You have a couple of options here depending on how your want to treat the data. Strength work is a bit different in that youre not actually all that concerned about the HR nor is HR a great metric for how much “work” is being done during the workout. I think with the Chamfit the simplest thing is not to wear the HR monitor at all then just manually go into TrainingPeaks and plug in the time and TSS. I use a flat TSS of 50 for an hour of this kind of strength work. Alternatively you can add a Strength choice to the activities on your Garmin by navigating to: Menu>>Settings>>Activity Profile>>Strength>>Add New>>Strength then pick a color and add. Then you can record the duration and HR of the Chamfit and it should auto pair in TrainingPeaks. Usually the hrTSS for a chamfit workout will be 35-45 and I still go in and manually bump it to 50 as I think that’s a more realistic representation of the training stress.
ModeratorMatt- I 1000% disregard the zone alerts from both Trainingpeaks and Garmin (or any other program), I have never been able to ascertain any correlation between them and reality with any of my athletes, not to mention there is very little if any visibility into exactly how they are calculated. 159 is your average for the time period but not your AeT, Your AeT is the HR that you “started” the test at post warm up. I look for a little lull or stabilized point in the data a few minutes in. If your avg was 159 then you would typically have a starting point of 150-152 (guessing here). 150 for an AeT is definitely at the high end of what we typically see but is certainly possible if you’ve done a solid amount of aerobic training historically and/or have a heart stroke volume on the small side (like I do). Yes that is then the top of your Z2 and the top of your Z1 will be 10% below that. As an aside, most folks that have a very well developed aerobic engine and a fairly high AeT will want to consider doing the majority of their training in Z1 in lieu of Z2 in order to recover well day to day. You will be able to get a feel for this once you do the first 4 weeks of the program and see how you’re holding up.
ModeratorAnna- In our experience, none of the wrist based HR systems alone are accurate enough for training monitoring or the drift test. Of course there are folks out there doing the program with the watch only or with no watch at all. I encourage everyone to use the chest strap to get the most out of their training time. Personally, I think one of the worse case scenarios is when people have very inaccurate wrist data and assume its accurate, you would be better off just taking your pulse manually once in a while. I would say the majority of athletes who train by subjective feel without years of HR data beforehand end up going too hard and training primarily in Z3 “death by threshold”
ModeratorTim, I havent had great luck with the accuracy of the forearm HRM with my folks (admittedly just a few data points there) but they do seem better than wrist. I would try it if you’ve had good luck and we can see how it looks. Yes you should be using whatever system on a daily basis to monitor anaerobic workouts. (I don’t wear it for strength) That said I am very guilty of just wearing the watch when I’m going out for short z1 outings etc. But I have a good subjective feel of my HR which you may as well.
ModeratorDon, If you have a history with TP I always recommend to keep the same methodologies going forward to allow and apples to apples comparison to past seasons, I think this is the most important thing. That said its important to understand if your comparing your CTL score to others (always dangerous ?) or to some theoretical gold standard (I.e. CTL of 100 for Denali) that if you log lift service skiing, yoga, hangboarding, dog walking and leaf raking that your CTL will be a bigger number than another athlete who only logs more sport specific training. My personal method is to only log aerobic work that gets me into a minimum of Z1 and also my Strength work. I add notes of additional training related things that I want to keep track of (so everything is housed in one place) but don’t give them a TSS. Hope that helps.
ModeratorSashi is correct here, most folks that need to build basic aerobic capacity can train primarily in Z2. Once athletes are very well trained then they may need to substitute Z1 for a lot of that volume to be able to recover day to day.
ModeratorMarkPostle on November 8, 2021 at 12:42 am · in reply to: transitioning into this training plan #58945Bill- I would recommend starting with the load as prescribed in the basic program for the first 4 weeks (3 build and 1 rest) then reassess where you are at with regards to the correct training load. I think it takes most folks a whole 4 week cycle to accurately assess if its appropriate. Of course if you get 5-10 days in and it way too much then you’ll want to scale it back some but if you’re on pace for 225 hours/yr I think you’ll be fine.
ModeratorModeratorWe will cover TSS and other metrics in the next Zoom Tammy. Is just just training peaks numerical representation of how much training stress a workout encompasses. You should go by time and HR as the primary markers when trying to gauge your workout intensity.