[Aaron]

Aaron on January 5, 2020 at 9:17 pm · in reply to: General &Max Strength, Hill Sprint-Bounding. Anaerobic Endurance. #35509

This article does good job of explaining general strength, max strength and muscular endurance: https://uphillathlete.com/kis-strength/.

I understand sport specific strength to be general type of training that can be adapted to achieve either of the type of stimulus desired from max strength or muscular endurance that most closely mimics the sport (uphill sprinting, bounding etc). This is differentiated from gym based approaches that are also used in general strength, max strength or muscular strength.

I have heard Scott explain here that they purposely did not emphasize gym based max strength in TFTUA. The steep uphill sprints and ski bounding are examples of approaches that achieve neuromuscular stimulus of the type that the gym based max strength workouts also achieve and are described in the TFTNA.

The Mike Foote Big Vert plan has ‘hill sprints for specific strength’ starting in week 1 IF the athlete passes basic functional strength tests similar as is described in TFTUA. If those are not passed they prescribe a general strength ‘Functional Runner Strength for remedial hip strengthening’ routine to follow before starting the hill sprints.

[Aaron]

Aaron on November 12, 2019 at 4:42 pm · in reply to: New paper: nutritional considerations ultra-marathon training and racing #31812

I don’t feel informed enough to have a useful opinion though 1L/hr + electrolyte seems large. I have consciously tried to increase my hydration on long efforts ski touring (say 8-16 hours) but even then ~3-5L in my memory seems max (~300-500/hr?) and that is only possible with open water or melting. Running I feel like ~300-500ml/hour is about right too. I sparingly use electrolyte and only for really big efforts and not all day. My climate is relatively cool though, I have no real heat experience.

[Aaron]

Aaron on November 10, 2019 at 12:15 pm · in reply to: Which Plan? #31606

I think Scott’s advice presumed more of a gap. As he indicates the lions share of that time will be recovery. With only 12 days I don’t think any heavy work will have time for any adaption and recovery for the 3 day. Mountaineering trip.

[Aaron]

Aaron on November 9, 2019 at 3:24 pm · in reply to: Which Plan? #31578

How long is the gap between the late March run and early april Whitney trip?

[Aaron]

Aaron on November 4, 2019 at 9:54 pm · in reply to: Starting Mike Foote's Big Vert Plan Early #31167

I did my first full 8 week transition this year prior to starting the mike foote plan for a second time following TFTUA and using the mike foote funtional hip workout as my general strength workout and progressing it from bodyweight through increasingly heavy weights. Just 2 weeks into the Big Vert but the starting bodyweight ME progression in it feels just fine with totally reasonable delayed onset muscle soreness vs the first yr barely walking 1.5 days after. Just one thought on way to add ~ 8 weeks.

[Aaron]

Aaron on November 1, 2019 at 1:39 pm · in reply to: Skin Sizing Question #31039

Thanks Scott. I’ll give the shorties a try. I too hate steep skin tracks and only resort to them for short pushes where terrain features force it (primarily existing steep creek gully walls or steep treed pitches linking benches). Nothing so satisfying and sexy as sinuous skin tracks through aesthetic terrain.

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[Aaron]

Aaron on October 31, 2019 at 10:35 am · in reply to: Skin Sizing Question #30984

Would you extend this advice to touring skis? I just received last night a pair of mohair skins for a pair of Fischer Hannibal 183 (from skiuphill, your backyard right?) and the G3 sizing I choose leaves ~20cm of non-rockered tail exposed. This old dog has never gone shorty on skins and with going to mohair makes be a bit nervous for traction. However I am willing to learn new tricks and if it improves glide without loosing traction wohoo!

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[Aaron]

Aaron on September 20, 2019 at 6:14 pm · in reply to: Hill Sprint Substitutions #28820

I just listened to this podcast by two really solid running focused PTs who are big on strength work and loading up heavy. One of them (Chris Johnson of zernpt) has an interesting digital book resource called running on resistance that covers wide range of strength focused work for runners.

[Aaron]

Aaron on September 18, 2019 at 4:43 pm · in reply to: ADS / Train on Hills or Flat? #28660

Even week to week my speed uphill staying in <AeT varies. On rested days in fitter cycles power hiking is the fastest I can go, when not well rested or feeling slightly sick my <AeT speed is embarrassingly slow walk. I gravitate towards staying on the hills as it is more relevant, and well, fun. On the way down I can stay <AeT while running which gets me some eccentric stimulus as a bonus.

[Aaron]

Aaron on September 17, 2019 at 10:24 pm · in reply to: Core n General Strength, ME Workout ,Hill Sprints into early base period week. #28617

For context in the base period of the Big Vert plan UA has Tuesdays as the ME days, Z1 or recovery Wed/Thurs and Friday as either a general strength workout or hill sprints depending on the results of functional hip/leg testing. I was generally sore from the ME for 2-3 days and needed that spacing to the hill sprints and weekend long runs.

[Aaron]

Aaron on September 13, 2019 at 1:59 pm · in reply to: Where's the black hole? #28423

As an aside, when mobile viewing no links are visible on this forum, if I switch to desktop view they are visible. I thought it was my end but sounds like others experience it too.

[Aaron]

Aaron on September 12, 2019 at 9:42 pm · in reply to: General &Max Strength, Hill Sprint-Bounding. Anaerobic Endurance. #28359

One observation about the grade/incline and sprint time recommendations in the podcast transcript

https://www.scienceofultra.com/blog/economy

Basically, you start with the notion of 30 seconds flat or at a slight decline and then subtract 1 second for every 1% rise in incline. 30 seconds for zero, 25 seconds for 5% incline, 20 seconds for 10% incline, 15 seconds for 15% incline.

…you can see how it aligns with the 10 sec UA recommendation on steep grades.

[Aaron]

Aaron on September 12, 2019 at 9:28 pm · in reply to: General &Max Strength, Hill Sprint-Bounding. Anaerobic Endurance. #28355

Take anything I say as coming from someone learning all this too and trying to synthesize it, happy to be corrected.

Re-reading the general and max strength on page 266 I am seeing this referring to the gym based workouts. As I noted above the stage 3 appears to be the max strength component, but that is a touch confusing as page 266 seems to be the only place max strength is mentioned, though emphasized as distinct in TFTNA. In TFTNA both gym based and the sport specific 10 sec hill sprint progressions (reps/sets, not time) are categorized as max strength.

On pg 266 Z4 and Z5 are listed separately. Z5 mentions hill sprints as sport specific strength at 10-30 sec. However, page 183 discusses Anaerobic Endurance as to two general classes of interval training, one based on 2 min intervals and one based on 20-30 sec intervals, which include both the Z4 and Z5 listed on page 266. 10 sec hill sprints/bounding is also found under anaerobic intervals starting and on page 180 the first paragraph clearly describes the training effect in early intervals as neurological recruiting more fast twitch motor units.

Obviously all these are on a continuum of stimulus with some overlap of training effect. My takeaway is:
-hill sprints/bounding is a form of sport specific max strength and anaerobic interval
-the farther you move past 10 sec the more of an anaerobic endurance/metabolic stimulus is created
-max strength is emphasized in base and intensity phases, moving from gym based towards sport specific methods. If using hill sprints for this effect keep them to 10 sec and increase the number of reps/sets as outline on page 182.
-past 10 sec the anaerobic stimulus overtakes the neurological/max strength stimulus and should be reserved only for specificity phases of training, and even then in better trained athletes with more base or multiple yearly cycles under their belt. The mike foote plan progression increases # reps and time from 15 sec in increments up to 2 min.

As an aside, I consider my self transitioning from beginner to intermediate, and did only a portion of the progressions in the Mike Foote plan this year — namely no longer anaerobic intervals. I did however carry the 10 sec hill sprints and bounding through later phases of training where more advanced athletes might switch to longer intervals. I found these workouts really fun and energizing.

Regarding your last question, the phrasing of the Strength entry in the Intensity week on page 295 suggests runners can do either hill sprints or bounding, but that ski mountaineers would benefit more from hill bounding.

I found this podcast to be very helpful and entirely consistent with UA advice.

https://www.scienceofultra.com/podcasts/95

[Aaron]

Aaron on September 11, 2019 at 1:45 pm · in reply to: Can my winter skiing and summer running training plans coexist? #28264

I have virtually the same goal,needs and timing and I already used the Mike Foote/Big Vert plan this yr for running. Scott’s advice was to use the Mike Foote Plan for both skiing and running, with appropriate substitutions.

I’ve looked this over more and what I will try this year is:
– Sept/Oct Transition
-Nov to Feb 1st 16 weeks of Big Vert modifed to focus on max strength and earlier phases of ski focused ME (water carries vs uphill Z3 running).
-March through June Big Vert. If I am crunched on time I would skip ahead a couple of weeks into the running version of Big Vert taking care to have transitioned from skiing to running, or held enough running miles through the Jan–>Feb window to have basic adaptations for running done.

In essence I feel this will turn out to be a ~36 week big vert with double long base.

[Aaron]

Aaron on September 11, 2019 at 1:22 pm · in reply to: General &Max Strength, Hill Sprint-Bounding. Anaerobic Endurance. #28261

I am very interested in this too, the TFTNA took a much more direct approach on Max Strength than TFTUA both in naming as a category and in gym based programming. My understanding based on reading both books:

Max strength is largely a neurological stimulus to increase recruitment of motor units. It can be trained via gym and sport specific methods. Gym methods focus on ~4 movements that are most sport specific pulled from general strength routines. 4-6 reps with weight at 80% 1 rep max, 4-6 sets, enough rest between sets to fully recover. TFTNA is very clear on these. TFTUA I believe merges the gym based transition (addressing defficienies), general strength and max strength (to simplify?) into Chapter 7 where the max strength show up as the ‘stage 3’ workouts.

I believe as you note on page 266, max strength is referring to the z5 sport specific methods :early phase of short duration max effort hill sprints (~8-10 sec). As these hill sprint progressions move up in time (and slightly lower in max effort/speed) the effect becomes more metabolic (zone 4). Also shorter duration hill bounding.

This represents getting gym based ‘stage 3’ MaxS into the transition phase, with sport specific maxS in the early base. Based on my life, seasons and training plan I tend to pull more gym based MaxS into the early base for ski touring and extend the general strength ‘phase 2’ through the whole transition.

My only minor criticism of TFTUA is this exact topic, I appreciated the TFTNA differentiation of general strength, max strength and muscular endurance categories. TFTUA however added more nuance and options for the ME as well as the hill bounding/moose hoofing etc options. I love having both books.