An additional element may be running efficiency. I also couldn’t run without going into Z3 but it turned out to be that I am a terribly inefficient runner (I go up more than out) attending a running clinic and working to improve my form has done wonders for my ability to run below Z3. Now I can actually run in Z1.
LindsayTroy
Forum Replies Created
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ParticipantLindsayTroy on March 11, 2021 at 12:07 pm · in reply to: Cannot yet run in Z1/Z2 for training period duration #51926Participant
I think this is a very personal question and may be better suited for a coaching call rather than a forum post. Sorry to not be more helpful
ParticipantSteve- As far as I understand it, the target audience of TFNA/TFUA is ultra-endurance sports. For the sports that are targeted in this training methodology, you are performing for many hours to many days and thus we need to rely on the aerobic system as the anaerobic system isn’t capable of performing for that long. Sometimes, yes, we do need to pick up the pace for short bursts, but ultimately the goal is to be able to do as much of our sport as possible below your aerobic threshold such that you can continue for hours or days on end without bonking. For some sports it may be a requirement to be a more anaerobically trained athlete, but for the sports/events targeted here, those systems are not as important.
Also, it isn’t always better to be below AeT, indeed, its recommended that individuals who have built sufficiently strong aerobic base (measured here through AeT + AnT being within 10%) are recommended to do some of their training in Z3+. And, when individuals have an event that is impending, even when AeT + AnT differ by more than 10%, it is recommended to do Z3+ work. But the idea is that you can build more and get more out of the Z3+ with a stronger aerobic base.
As far as I understand it, one of the reasons people have ADS is because they have done too much Z3 volume and this process is aimed to balance that out.
ParticipantIn TFUA you’re looking at all of section 3 (chapters 6-8)
ParticipantDo you have the TFNA or TFUA books? If so, I can point you to pages, or here is a link to the general strength exercises. The idea is to do it 2x per week https://uphillathlete.com/general-strength-routine/
Participant@juskojj- I would strongly recommend doing a max strength cycle before doing ME. That will A) give you time to fix any remaining ADS and B) help to build a better base of strength to then layer on top endurance.
@steve-
On a separate note
When you have separate questions, it would be easiest if you address them in a separate forum post, I’ve noticed you’ve posted side questions to a few posts now. If you dont mind making a separate post for this question, I’ll delete it here and address it over there. Thanks!!
ParticipantIf its your legs failing first, I would definitely retest with sufficient recovery.
Are you doing strength workouts currently or just just running?
ParticipantLindsayTroy on March 9, 2021 at 12:40 pm · in reply to: AeT Heart Rate Drift Test – Negative Result #51795How did you convert pace to power? Trying to recreate your math but I don’t see the equations for pace, just for power.
ParticipantAn alternative method used on TP is to determine your current AnT and then take 75-85% (ie ~80% goal) of that (your running Z2 or aerobic zone) and confirm there is a <5% drift while in this zone for an hour. Which is best? Are there others?
These methods rely on population averages. Just like saying max HR is 220 – age. They assume everyone is identical in the population. The training peaks method would not be accurate for a person without ADS as it assumes a bigger gap than 10%.
Take, for example, an athlete with an AnT of 185 (like the above poster). TP suggests their AeT would be 138-157 which would be 17-34% gap. If that athlete was within 10%, their AeT would be >=168
ParticipantToday I tried doing an AeT on my treadmill @10% incline. Did my 15min warm up, ramped up to my target HR (trying to see if I was within 10% of my AnT), I was around 4.7mph and u couldn’t walk that but could jog, breathing was easy but my legs were getting a bit heavy and little sore after about 30min so I didn’t keep going and slowed down to finish a workout.
What was your target heart rate and how did you converge on that number? Based on the fact that you were only able to complete half the test, I think that it would be best to complete the test again at a lower heart rate. I can’t advise how much lower since you didn’t specify what HR you tested. I would say that AeT of 160 and AnT of 186 is not that close, its a 16% difference.
As for whether or not to do ME workouts, do you have an event you are training for thats got you on a timeline? That will determine the best course of action
ParticipantAre you asking about whats theoretically best or whats best with a specific climb/run/ski planned on XX date?
In the absence of a time limit, its BEST to first train solely below your AeT, if you have ADS, then its best to train mostly in Z2 (since in theory that is slow enough that when you finish you feel like you could keep going).
If you have an event in XX days, you need to balance the time constraint and therefore may need to do some training above AeT. But whats BEST is to fix ADS first then work on speed.
ParticipantLindsayTroy on March 8, 2021 at 6:55 pm · in reply to: AeT Heart Rate Drift Test – Negative Result #51741@steve- you can get a negative value in training peaks if your 2nd half is easier than your 1st half.
That often happens if you are running up and back down a mountain. You could conceive going at a constant pace of say 15 min/mile with a HR of 150 and going down at a pace of 9 min/mile and a HR of 150. Likewise, you may also get a negative drift test if you go at a 15 min pace up AND down but your HR will vary from 150 on the up to maybe 100 on the down.
I hope this concrete example helps.
ParticipantScott warned me about stuff like this happening on a coaching call. He said basically that I should pay very very close attention to any niggling pain when doing hill sprints because its very easy to go from niggling to injury. He said it’s better to abandon some training than to get hurt. Good on you for stopping, if you’re anything like me, I would give it 2 more days after you think you’re “good” to go back to things before you really start to push into running on it. You don’t want to get hurt.
ParticipantTo add to what Shashi said, Training for the New Alpinism is sort of version 1.0 and Training for the Uphill Athlete is sort of version 2.0. Having read both, as far as I can tell, the main changes are clarifications/better explanations of key concepts, adaptations for more sports, and a better road map for how to implement the concepts into training.
ParticipantYou should test it! Follow the Uphill Athlete method for testing AeT (15 min warmup + 1hr <5% drift) and use the app at the same time. It’ll only be N=1 but its fun to do science experiments on yourself! It only costs $10 (app) and an hour of your time.