I also find the decreasing lactate strange/interesting. 2-3h after lunch is not exactly fasted though. It would be interesting to see what numbers you get if you do the same thing directly in the morning before eating something.
Andreas
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ParticipantAndreas on January 19, 2023 at 12:34 am · in reply to: Lactate going down during steady effort? #74804ParticipantAndreas on November 14, 2022 at 12:53 am · in reply to: Advice on home blood lactate test (Lactate Pro 2) #72612
I also use a Lactate Pro 2 but for me it’s been consistent as long as I do the measurement correctly. However, I have a feeling that it’s very, very sensitive to contaminations which probably is connected to the small volume of blood that it requires.
I mainly reacted to you writing “squeezing”. The blood should flow out easily by itself. Otherwise you should punch another hole or scrap the measurement altogether. Recommendation would be to get a bigger lancet or punch deeper. And don’t forget to wipe away the first drop.
ParticipantIt looks like Scott Semple have done some simple tests for how long it takes high levels of lactate to drop back into Z2 range.
ParticipantI would also recommend the Osprey Poco Plus. I’ve been using that one for my daughter and it truly is a fantastic child carrier. Expensive though…
I’ve tried a slightly older Deuter carrier once but it was nowhere as comfortable.ParticipantI thought Dada had it right in the first answer but now I’m confused as well. Josh never talks about PE so I assume his reasoning is purely based on the HR measurement and defined AeT HR. Don’t know what was changed in the original post when it was modified though.
I’m experiencing the same thing. I don’t know if I’ve actually seen a post here in this forum that clearly states that what Dada said is true but I thought there were a few that at least are hinting in this direction.
My training plan calls for a Z2 max run the day after my long run and sometimes my HR for the Z2 max run is lower for the same power that I normally run at. This usually coincides with when I don’t get adequate rest after my long run (when the real world limits my couch time). However, my perceived effort is roughly the same for the same pace so I’m trying to limit myself based on PE (thus running with a lower HR) instead of pushing my HR up to the “defined” AeT HR. HR usually catches up to PE after a while. But I find it incredibly hard to judge the effort based on PE so I’ve started to back off when I’m feeling like this and instead doing a mid Z2 run.So, two questions:
1. Is it true what Dada says? Lower HR while running a known trail at the same pace the day after a hard workout is probably due to fatigue?
2. And if so, does it mean that you most likely are running in Z3 if you at this point increase your pace so that the HR measurement matches the defined AeT HR?I’ve been working under the assumption that the answer is yes and yes but it would be great to get it clarified.
ParticipantWhere dreams go to die…
Hehe, yeah I think I’ll wait until my second ultra before I start take advice from Laz.ParticipantThanks for a very thorough reply. Much appreciated!
Now I have a better feeling for what intensity I should try on race day.
I’ve never been much for races before but this will hopefully not be my last ultra. I somehow didn’t feel the need to race when every training was a max effort anyway so I think that I’ve only done two in my entire life. Started reading the TftUA about a year ago and because of that I switched most of my training to low intensity. But Z1/Z2 training is kind of boring or at least less rewarding (mentally) in comparison to always feeling dead at the end of a run. This is where a race somewhere in the distance helps keeping me properly motivated.I think every long run in the BV plan has this in the description:
“This run is used to improve your basic aerobic capacity. It should be done in the upper HR range of Z2 (as determined by the AeT test on day#2) IF THE SPREAD BETWEEN YOUR AeT and AnT is more than 10%. IF that SPREAD is <10% then do this run mostly in Z1 with no more that 30min in Z2.”That’s why I assumed that recovery was the reason for not spending more than 30 min in Z2.
I wonder if there should be a third category here though. Something along the line that you are allowed to spend a bit more time in Z2 than 30 min if the spread is <10% but you’re not a particularly good runner.
For me to stay in Z1 on a ~14% incline after 4-5h on the trail would probably mean that a granny with a walker could overtake me while moonwalking Michael Jackson style…ParticipantYeah it one of those things that you know when you done one but at the same time you need to do your first at some point…
I don’t want to blow up halfway into the race but at the same time I just don’t want to be overly conservative either.My goal race is about 70 km and 3000 meters of elevation. I measured AeT to be 160 (hand held lactate meter) and the 1h max run test resulted in an AnT of 171. I’m currently 6 weeks into the BIG VERT plan so I’ll hopefully improve a bit more before race day since it is another 14 weeks away. That’s also why there at least is a small hope that my intended race won’t be canceled due to covid…
My last long run was 34 km and 1400 meters of elevation. I “ran” that in 4h45m. The BIG VERT plan calls for no more than 30 min in Z2. That’s not really feasible for me with this much elevation (and that includes walking most of the uphill) but I assume that is just for recovery purposes. I got about 60% in Z1 and about 40% in the lower half of Z2.
Am I tired after a long run like this? Sure. It’s not like my legs are yelling “this was fun! Let’s do it again!!” But at the same time, it’s not like I’m dead either. I could go again if needed but then I would probably also need some serious recovery time afterwards. I did the Z2 max run with 500 meter of elevation the day after and although the legs are complaining about the elevation the day before it doesn’t really affect my average pace overly much.
But as I said in my original post. For me this really ties into HR drift and if the HR zones drifts as well.
I seem to remember reading somewhere here in a forum post that people are running ultras mainly in Z2. Is that true? And if it is true, are we talking about the AeT HR or the AeT pace (does the HR zone drift…).Best guess I have right now is that I should start out at roughly Z1 max pace and then try to keep an even pace throughout the race. This would mean that I’m definitely climbing over the measured AeT HR at the later parts of the race. Especially when going uphill. But I’m also worried that this is a bit conservative and that I should start faster.
ParticipantAndreas on April 24, 2020 at 1:16 am · in reply to: Recommended BSU speed for the BIG VERT ME training #40843Thanks for the info guys.
I’ve been experimenting a little to see if I can speed things up bit but it feels like I’m getting a better workout by slowing down and maintaining my form. So I’ll continue with my slower repetition rate.ParticipantThx Jared,
That answers the first question. I knew that I read something somewhere before. Just couldn’t find it now when I needed it.
I’m still interested in if the Z1/recovery/Z2 runs should be scaled on distance or if I should run for the duration listed.
At this point I’m guessing time but what do I know…
That must be a lot of people in this forum that have used the plan. What did you guys do?
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