Treadmill incline walking is great. 14-15% incline and 4mph and you’ll see HR easily in Z1 and maybe even Z2.
briguy
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Participantbriguy on September 9, 2020 at 11:06 am · in reply to: Ad-Hoc Indoor Training due to Wildfire Smoke #44895Participant
I had hip labral tear repair (and polishing of the femoral head and “rim trim” on the socket) in mid 2018 and I ran the Pikes Peak Ascent 14 months later, and I just did the full Pikes Peak Marathon 3 weeks ago.
Everyone’s recovery is different however, but if you do it right then I’d say it should be a possibility. Just remember that recovery isn’t linear, you’re going to have setbacks along the way but that doesn’t mean the whole process was a failure.
Glad to offer any other advice on my experience.
ParticipantThanks for the feedback.
Yeah, I figured the likelihood of a response was low given the quick timeframe but thought ‘ya never know’ and I got lucky and Aamm saw the post and responded. Obviously I would’ve liked to have pre-thought this scenario weeks in advance but that was kinda the point of the question, I found myself in this scenario and thought should I or shouldn’t I?
And I probably stated my post poorly, I wasn’t expecting that particular workout/ascent to magically add any fitness, just that it wouldn’t hurt my situation. Turns out it was a good fit and I’m very glad I ended up doing it. Sometimes you have to just grab an opportunity when it presents itself.
ParticipantJoe Friel’s work is definitely not going to jive with the UA methodology. Friel’s Fast after 50 has its central tenet that HIIT is required for the aging athlete, you won’t find that in UA plans until later in each training cycle.
These are competing methodologies, you have to choose one and experiment. UA is more Maffetone related with “low hanging fruit” being the terrible base aerobic conditioning we all have which can be improved with mostly Z1/Z2 work. Once that is accomplished, you layer onto some more higher zone work to fine tune your fitness.
ParticipantPower is instantaneous (HR is notoriously laggy) but Power is not impacted by conditions (weather, temp, humidity, etc) nor by how you feel (if you’re sick, rested, etc) like HR is.
So IMO neither is “better” but each do have their applications if you know what you are doing. For example, if conditions are good and you’re ready/rested for the workout, then power targets are probably better. They are almost always better for short bursts (like 30 sec sprints) as HR is way too slow to respond there. But generally HR works best as a limiter to your workout efforts for longer efforts in varying conditions.
ParticipantThanks for the sound advice. But I didn’t follow it. 🙂
I couldn’t resist really. The trailhead was 20min from my Airbnb and at only 4.4m roundtrip I knew it wouldn’t represent too taxing a workout. Plus, it’s hard to find an “easy” 10m here in Leadville at 10000′ anyway. I’m also flying out the day after PPM so no chance to tag any 14ers post-race, even if my destroyed legs would let me.
FWIW here’s how it went. I did Mt Sherman from Iowa Gulch, the first quarter mile or so descends a bit, crosses a creek and then begins ascending a scree field for the remainder of the mile. Because of the steepness, traction was problematic in a few places and I was glad I opted to bring some poles with me (I don’t race PPM with poles). I kept HR bouncing between Z1 and Z2 and effort level felt fairly easy. Spent a few minutes chatting with a descending hiker gathering some intel on what was to come (previously, near the creek, I encountered a married couple saying that the mtn “destroyed them” and they had turned back when the scrambling got too rough). 1st mile completed in about 32min, with a total ascent of 741′.
After that, it was all climbing in the next mile, often scrambling up a rock/scree field with some extremely steep segments forcing me off-trail and onto rocks for better footing. Near the end of the mile it leveled off onto a saddle until the final summit at 14040ish feet. This mile included an astounding elevation gain of 1247 feet and I completed it in 42 minutes.
There was about .2m left to go to the actual summit, I hung out about 5min taking in the scenery and eating/drinking then made my descent. Unsurprisingly the descent was very easy cardio wise and I had the most trouble maintaining footing in the scree field, often “skiing” down sideways through steep sections. My total return only took about 50min, very little of it actually runnable which was fine as I didn’t want to overstress my legs.
I’m glad I did it. My Training-Peaks-like software (Sporttracks) rated the workout pretty similar to what I had scheduled for the day so given the fact I didn’t injure myself I call it a win.
Participant1. Generally you can ignore that Garmin Vo2max number. It’s dependent on the maxHR you specify in their app and will be affected by hot weather or otherwise difficult conditions. If you do your trail runs (like that one sounds as if it is trail) as “trail” activity in Garmin, it will ignore it for Vo2max calculations.
2. Sometimes a chest strap HRM is influenced by static electricity and will cause spikes like you describe. Make sure you thoroughly wet the strap when applying, and/or use some electrode gel, otherwise you’ll occasionally see those spikes.
ParticipantI’ll chime in since no one else has yet. I’m no expert on salt but I have done quite a few long ultra-type endeavors in some extreme conditions. And I live and train in the deep south where it’s hot/humid more often than not.
I myself do not supplement with salt tabs. I rely on what is in the nutrition I take (gels and mixes) and that suits me just fine. Many of my training partners swear by salt tablets but the few times I did take them I experienced issues (usually mild – finger/hand swelling) and do not feel they added any benefit.
I would suggest that your problems on that particular race had another cause, perhaps going out a little too hard/fast for your fitness at the time.
ParticipantThanks for the info, we’ll be in Breck only a few days and then moving on to Royal Gorge and Manitou Springs so definitely lower elevation there.
ParticipantI took a 2.5 week “break” from my Gym ME program due to some tuneup races and long running events that I wanted to be relatively fresh for, and then returned this past Sunday 8/5 to my full ME session again. I say “break” because I still did somewhat of a maintenance program during that time, I just either halved the total number of sets, or reduced the additional weight but I still did a weekly ME session at least.
I’m quite surprised how sore I am still 2 days later. In hindsight I guess I should’ve started with something a little milder. I’m not sure which of the three (step ups, split squat jumps, or jump squats) is really hitting me but I get consistently very sore in the glutes and adductors after a quality ME session.
ParticipantOkay, I’m reviving this old thread as surprisingly Pikes Peak Marathon is actually ON for this year and unlike last year I’m back in the marathon as opposed to the Ascent.
Still trying to figure out how to crack-the-nut of strategy for this race. One element I’m changing this year is I’m traveling out the week before with my family and we’re making a vacation of staying in Breckenridge for a few days and visiting Manitou and Royal Gorge etc. I’ll be passively exposed to more altitude than usual (about 12 days of exposure vs 3-5 of past years) but I’m wondering about my workouts since this period will comprise most of my taper.
Should I schedule my workouts “down low” as much as possible? Since we’ll be at 9000’+ in Breckenridge I’m assuming it will be better to wait until lower elevations do my training runs, or is that not true? I realize there isn’t much I can do to help my fitness during the taper but there is alot that I can do to screw it up so that’s what I”m trying to avoid.
Appreciate all guidance, thanks.
ParticipantI tend to push the envelope on hydration too, at least in training runs. It’s never a dangerous situation, I’d rather just finish on the thirsty side than have to loop back for fluids, stop to filter, etc. I figure it’s good stimulus. Races and events are a different story.
ParticipantOh, also I recently did an “event” that sorta corresponds to your 55m ultra and so I’ll point out a couple of things I noticed since this was one of the first super-long ultras that I did after training under UA guidelines. In my case it was “vertical ultra” as I did 16000+ vertical feet over the course of 11+ hours, so not quite the same but I think some things might apply.
– I did keep HR in zone 1 early on, only spiking past it here and there on particularly steep section.
– Late into the “run” I found perceived level of effort for Z2 to be quite hard. In other words, I would be working very hard, out of breath, needing a rest break etc and check my HR only to find it in Z2. I attribute this to just overall fatigue. I’ve found this to occur in other long races where it seems like the heart just gets “tired” and is simply unable to reach the upper zones for BPM.
ParticipantFor a long ultra like that I might drift into Z2 occasionally but I would want to stay Z1 (upper z1) as much as possible for the first half. Some reasons I might drift into Z2 would be following a spiky climb…if I had to make a pass…or if I wanted to rush to the singletrack immediately following a gravel-road/double-track start to avoid bottlenecks.
If you’ve trained properly us the UA principles, your Z1 pace should be well trained and relatively “fast”…but most importantly very sustainable.
As for forgetting how to handle strenuous pace, you should be practicing that in the last 6+ weeks leading up to your race when you’re introducing more Intensity.
ParticipantStrategizing like this is what makes racing fun. If we were all robots or computers then it would be simple calculations.
For me, what I’ve learned from racing 5Ks to marathons to 6-8 hours ultras to 11+ hour super-ultras is that the greatest risk factor under your control is a too-fast start.
Whether you determine intensity from a power meter, a HR monitor, speed/pace, or simply RPE…you have to make sure your start is manageable and sustainable.
Of course, the art and the “fun” is in how long you wait until you take the reins off. But most of that depends on your fitness and how you feel on race day (and if some of those uncontrollable factors like weather etc are working for or against you).
With all that said, I’m still figuring it out for some of my races, even ones I’ve done multiple times. But again that’s the fun and why they keep me coming back to re-do them.