[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on November 20, 2019 at 3:52 am · in reply to: AeT test issues #32312

Hi Flatlander,

Hope you work it out, but I think searching for it with a (much) lower HR rate will help.

The well respected New Zealand endurance coach Jon Ackland always emphasised the importance of LSD in training for endurance – Long Slow Distance – shame on me that I’d forgotten this over the years. It’s totally consistent with Uphill Athlete’s philosophy, albeit UA have raised it to a more rigorous level with the use of the AeT and LT markers.

I have the luxury of time in that my main “event” is not till April 2020 so can afford to build up slowly, but even with that slow build up and at low AeT, I’ve had enough of a gain in approx 10 weeks that I could probably do it now. If you have only 8 weeks to go then once you’ve nailed your AeT you need to try and get 12+ hours a week in that Z2 to maximise the gains in that relatively short period (or purchase a UA plan appropriate to what your goals are).

All the best,
Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on November 19, 2019 at 4:48 pm · in reply to: AeT test issues #32296

Hi Flatlander,

We’re of similar age (I’m 2 years older) and started on Uphill Athlete training beginning of Sept this year. It might be worth sharing my starting point and approach as it’s quite different from yours.

Like you, I was active but not massively so, and mostly in the traditional Z3/Z4 HR zones, sometimes pushing into Z5 … hard must be better approach. Z1 and Z2 were not actively used therefore I considered myself aerobically deficient as the starting point. As I had no idea what my AeT was I simply used the formula 180 less my age, then less another 5 for ADS which gave me a starting AeT of 112. I did a drift test – drift was 7%, so dropped AeT to 110 and started 4 weeks Z2 training increasing duration from 6 – 9.5 hours and retested – drift had reduced to under 3% so based on some advice on this forum moved AeT to 120 and did another 4 weeks at new Z2 continuing to increase weekly load by roughly 30minutes a week. Retested again and drift was around 5% so held AeT and am currently coming to end of month 3 with next test due next week.

So, a couple of observations:

1) My starting HR was much lower than yours with what sounds like a similar background, and we’re similar age. I know everyone is different but the difference if fairly big.

2) If I understand the physiology correctly, the further above your AeT you get the more your anaerobic process kicks in, the less linear your HR drift becomes, and therefore the drift test results become increasingly meaningless. In your last test for example, if it was me working at those HR’s I’d be getting close to my LT (Lactic Threshold) so my anaerobic system would be very actively engaged negating any drift test results. Scott – if I have this all wrong please jump in and correct me.

Not sure if this helps, but it might be worth you doing a test at a much lower HR (maybe 115) and seeing how linear the drift is.

On a final and positive point, whilst the first month for me was frustrating slow in order to stay in Z2, after 11 weeks I’m moving across the 3000ft hills at much the same speed as in the past, but with greater ease, less stops, and with my HR rarely above 120 (my AeT). Whilst my AeT is not increasing very quickly, my treadmill pace at same HR in Z2 has increased quite a bit – the fitness benefit is significant. I’ve just had two consecutive days in the hill (almost 8000ft vertical) that were almost effortless and I could have easily gone out again today – zero obvious fatigue. Net, I’m sticking with it …. it’s working for me.

Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on November 3, 2019 at 6:41 am · in reply to: AeT Test – odd profile #31084

Hi Dada,

I may be wrong, but my understanding is you warm up to your AeT HR and that is the starting point for the 60 minutes drift test. The first 30 minute average is used as part of the drift calculation to see if your starting point is below, on or above your AeT and then you can adjust accordingly.

As I was completely new to this form of training and had no idea what my AeT was, I used the general formula: 180 less my age, then I took off a further 5 as I knew I had ASD, and used that for my initial test. The drift test result was over the 5% so I took a further 2 points off and started the program at that. I retested after 4 weeks and the delta had dropped to less than 3% so moved the HR up – in my case by 10 points.

Hope this helps,
Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on November 1, 2019 at 1:29 am · in reply to: AeT Test – odd profile #31025

Thanks Scott.

I’m going to stay the course for sure as I can feel the significant gains even if they didn’t transfer over to the test results. I feel really strong on the hill and am comfortably moving continuously for 4-5 hours with around 1000m vertical and no tiredness the following day.

Perhaps the jump from 110 to 120 after last test was too big and I’ve been training a little bit above AeT for last 4 weeks. Anyway unless you advise otherwise I’ll stay at 120 for another 4 weeks and then retest again.

I had planned to drop from 6 to 5 cardio days and add in one ME day next week. Given the test results should I stick to this plan or delay it a month and stick to cardio only.

Thanks again,
Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on October 31, 2019 at 11:48 am · in reply to: Do you drink to thirst or drink to a plan? #30988

Hi Rebecca

As you allude to, it’s a bit of both as many variables. Below is related to mountaineering (ski and walking with a bit of climbing), not running or racing.

First of all I always try to start off well hydrated, and then carry 1 – 1.5 litres of fluid. In summer this will just be plain water, in winter it will be 1l cold water, 1/2l flask with fruit flavoured drink. Most of the places I go to I drink where I can straight off the hill to supplement as necessary, particularly in hot weather – a small collapsable silicon mug clipped to my belt is very useful for that. Once finished, I always have plenty of water in car and hydrate fairly frequently for a couple hours after off the hill – lots of small amounts – again plain water. Unless it’s particularly hot I find 1-1.5l enough for a full day on the hill.

I also dress to try and minimise excessive sweating, although not always possible, in which case I’ll do a lot of augmentation with natural water off hill.

I don’t use any proprietary hydration drinks, but will use semi-skimmed milk if available when off the hill.

Hope this helps,
Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on October 27, 2019 at 3:00 am · in reply to: HR drift test without TP #30823

Hi Will,

I agree with Depeyster’s comment above. Re Heart Rate, I’ve used the Polar app on my phone and Polar Flow on by laptop to log my HR for years – the basic version of both are free. The phone syncs over to the desktop version and then I can easily isolate the first 30 mins from the second 30 mins and do the calculation as per Scott’s note.

I’d also emphasise the “not every day is the same point” – some days working at just under AeT is easy, other days it’s harder so beware false precision.

Hope this helps,
Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on October 14, 2019 at 9:09 am · in reply to: What are your energy bar choices for the hill? #30229

Hi Rebecca,

I’m not a great fan of energy bars, maybe because they didn’t really exist when I started going into the mountains, and maybe that’s why I don’t actually eat a lot when exercising even on a long day. I remember back in the mid 70’s doing an epic 19 hour route in Chamonix on some oatcakes and cream cheese – dinner that evening was needed!!!

On a single day out, I tend to just raid the fridge and make a sandwich with whatever is there, and add a banana and/or apple. If I’m going to be out for several days in a row I tend to make sure I have a nice salami sausage and a chunk of hard cheese, both of which I nibble across the days with either a nice whole meal bread or some oatcakes. I also will make sure I have a good supply of dried fruit and nuts, and possibly a banana or two. That works for me (maybe I’m naturally fat adapted) but I do eat well at the end of the day.

As an FYI, I also road cycle a fair bit through the summer months and will often do and easy 4 – 5 hours without anything other than water, but if it’s a hard fast run of greater than 3 hours I’ll use up to 4 energy gels with caffeine. Once home I always start rehydration immediately with semi skimmed milk and take on some food – usually whole meal toast with sardines or mackerel.

I’ll be interested on your views of above – don’t hold back :-)))

Derek

PS …. none of above is competitive other than against myself.

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on October 6, 2019 at 8:12 am · in reply to: AeT Results Question #29521

Thank Mike ….. sounds like we both have volcano objectives in 2020 – mine is to Japan in April 2020 for a 10 day ski tour culminating in Mt Fuji.

Sounds like our plans are similar as well, except I’m not running (old achilles injury) and sticking to inclined walking, stair master or out on a real hill/mountain – 4 week cycle, 3 weeks increasing duration then cut back for one easier week. Will adapt come the winter comes depending on snow – if and when it comes, I’ll be at least one day in the mountains on skis most weeks.

All the best with your training – if you want to share more privately you’ll find me on Facebook messenger.

Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on October 6, 2019 at 4:34 am · in reply to: AeT Results Question #29518

Hi Mike,

I’m fairly new to all this so bare that in mind re below.

We’re of similar age – I’m 64 – and sounds like we’ve been “AeT” training for about the same time. I did an AeT test before starting (was bike fit, but mostly Z3/Z4 based training) and definitely had/have ADS – my starting point AeT was 110. Now everyone’s different but from your note it doesn’t sound as though you have ADS. I think your proposed 137 sounds like a good point to start another 4-6 week block and then retest.

I would suggest you do an AnT (Lactic Threshold) test as your AeT may be getting to within 10% of your AnT, in which case you may need to rebalance Z1 and Z2 sessions so you don’t overtrain, but I’m sure there are others on the site who can comment better on that – I’m still some way off my AnT. As a reference point, my AnT is pretty solidly around 148, at least before I started this base training regime.

Hope this helps,
Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on October 3, 2019 at 2:05 pm · in reply to: AeT Test #2 #29380

Thanks Scott.

I’ll go with 120 from tomorrow (4hr hill walk with a forecasted windchill across the tops of -7C!!!). I’ve got quite a good feel for things now so if I feel it’s a bit high over next few sessions I’ll take it back a bit. Next test scheduled for 4 weeks so will be interesting to see what it shows.

Your advice much appreciated.

Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on October 2, 2019 at 4:27 pm · in reply to: AeT Test #2 #29357

Hi Scott …. quick addendum to above. Re quickly spotting if 120 too high, I can’t really do nose breathing test – have damaged nose from rugby days and find breathing through my nose hard at best of times, so not a very reliable test for me.

Cheers,
Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on October 2, 2019 at 4:23 pm · in reply to: AeT Test #2 #29356

Hi Scott,

Thanks for quick reply and advice. Numbers not quite right although close enough I think, but to be sure I have outlined below.

1st test: started at 112. First 1/2 average: 115
Second 1/2 average: 123
Delta 8bpm, 7%
As this was > than 5% I started first block slightly lower at 110 and have used that as AeT throughout the last 4 weeks

2nd test: started at 110. First 1/2 average: 111
Second 1/2 average: 114
Delta 3bpm, 2.7%

Does this alter your advice to start next block at 120? I’m happy to do that, and it will make hill sessions easier as it was impossible to go slow enough on steep parts to stay below AeT, particularly after 2+ hours going up. Is there any way I can quickly spot if this should prove to be too high?

As to work on treadmills, audio books made it a lot more bearable 🙂

Thanks again for you help.

Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on September 19, 2019 at 2:34 pm · in reply to: AeT training question #28725

Hi Scott,

Thanks for quick reply and answer as expected.

Re “worked”, the current workout intensity is enough to make me sweat a bit so I know I’m working, but am perfectly ready for repeating the next day, even after the longer 4 hour day on the hill that I do once a week (and will gradually make longer).

Does that make sense? I feel I could do more but everything I read in the books and on the site is GO SLOW AND BUILD GRADUALLY so I’m sticking to plan.

Derek

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on September 13, 2019 at 9:17 am · in reply to: Where's the black hole? #28409

Re my recent post which asks about AeT improvement it was noted by Scott that I have a very wide gap between AeT and LT ….. guess what – I’ve spent a lot of time in the “happy hard” zone over the last few years :-(((

Ah well, never too late to change ….

[derekosborne22]

derekosborne22 on September 12, 2019 at 3:32 pm · in reply to: Improving AeT #28348

Hi Scott,

Re your ramp point, I revisited and maybe there is a misunderstanding. The first week in my base level 6 month plan has a total of 6 hours training (and that’s a light week) – the longest week is at the end of month 6 – 14 hours duration. That an 8 hour increase across 26 weeks – avg of 3% per week ignoring “light” weeks. Increasing to 10hours per week would be equivalent to 1 longish ski mountaineering day or two very short days – doesn’t sound enough to me.

Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Derek