The science of ultra podcast covers mental components in various episodes. Here is one https://www.scienceofultra.com/podcasts/83
Aaron
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ParticipantParticipant
Similar to kurej.tomas:
-I have S/LAB XA ALPINE 2 for earlier season snowy use, I use these sparingly as they are expensive (found a pair 50% off), and I prefer mesh shoes with running gaitors unless really snowy.
-I too tried to find the Salomon XA ALPINE PRO but seem to be discontinued or perpetually out of stock.
-for drier use I ended up with arc’teryx norvan vt 2 which seem very similar in niche to the Salomon XA ALPINE PRO
-I also have a pair of la sportiva TX4 for nastier scree and more pure scrambling trips, but I’m really curious to try on a pair of the la sportiva TX guide for these burlier routes.
-My first more technical shoes were Bushidos which I liked but the multi-part sole seemed lower durability, I now prefer shoes with simple smooth treads and single part materials.ParticipantIf I recall correctly from the recent podcast on metabolic testing AeT and the crossover point may or may not be similar.
ParticipantYour experience sounds normal based on my experiences. As per Rachel’s commment: I believe TFTUA Scott mentions specifically that if you don’t feel like they are achieving much in the first sessions that is a sure sign you need to do more of it, and as the neurological wiring happens you will feel more and more training effect. My short hill sprint and ski bounding efforts leave me feeling energized and like Rachel don’t feel the effect really until the next day, and even then it is NOTHING like the ME effect :).
ParticipantI’ve noticed similar variation in advice. My recent observations is the flatter the terrain the longer stride can be good (a little glide sometimes), as angle increases shorter and higher cadence better. Pretty analogous to running.
ParticipantI am about same as Sashi. Not familiar with the mountaineering plans but for the Big Vert running I am good with dumbell pairs ~15/20/25 and honestly that core range, a box and chin up bar would probably cover 90% of the need.
I have added dumbell pairs from 10 to 40lb which nicely cover my full range of general strength transition work and ME work. I’ve progressed over the yrs where I now need heavier plate and barbell access for Max Strength work but have chosen to use gyms for those discrete blocks and everything else is at home. Before starting to use the gym, I was using combo of backpack full of homemade sand bags that was ~70lb plus dumbells in the 25-40lb range for ~Max strength blocks. That was plenty of load for one legged work at the time (e.g. step ups, Bulgarian split squats). ~150lbs still fine for ~6-8 rep range, but to properly load at 3-4 rep range I need the gym.
ParticipantAaron on January 15, 2021 at 3:23 pm · in reply to: Adding bigger vert days into 24-wk mountaineering plan #49336Great links rachelp!
ParticipantAaron on January 15, 2021 at 3:17 pm · in reply to: Adding bigger vert days into 24-wk mountaineering plan #49335My experience is if you are well trained 8hr Z2 okish but 8hr Z3 not so much. Does not solve your weekly longer day trip goals, but my personal circumstances (read family life) means my 3 week build cycle generally focuses on 2-4hr training tours, and once a month for fun and bigger training stimulus throw in one long 8-10hr ski. I then treat that as an overreach session and throttle down the intensity in that week (say drop a gym ME leading in) and take a rest week after.
Terrain, partners, snow conditions all really change the training stimulus too. Did a recent 2000m 36km ski day ~10hrs and was able to stay in Z1/2 all day as the terrain was gentle enough and surface conditions were pretty firm. A steeper and deeper day would have thrown me in Z3 hard and would have been less of a useful ‘overreach’.
ParticipantAaron on January 13, 2021 at 11:44 am · in reply to: Gym ME vs Outdoor ME (Water Jug Carries) #49248Interested in any thoughts here too. I do the gym ME for ski mountaineering including heavy packs and approaches. For sure it helps, not just on the up, but also for leg burning descents. My approach so far has been to do a long gentle gym ME progression and add in a small handful of harder water carries towards the end of the cycle before tapering out in advance of goal trips. My go to vertical ski training run is not quite steep enough, I am thinking of changing to adding a few bootpack based steep water carries later in the winter this yr, and just keep with the gym progression as the bread and butter.
My sense in optimization is that the workout that gets done is the better one. Time efficiency using gym makes sense.
ParticipantUA shifted approaches (not the substance, just how it is presented) on strength training between the two books. TFTNA includes distinct general strength (GS), max strength (MaxS) and Muscular Endurance (ME) periods, with a gym and sport specific treatments. TFTUA frames the general strength as a 3 step process, moving from what I might characterize remedial, then to foundations (~15 rep), then to a harder phase with 6 reps and increasing weight loading (which if taken to heavy loading gets close to the MaxS protocols which are in the 4-5 rep range of ~85-90%1repmax). Following this general strength phase then the focus is on gym ME progressions, and sport specific strength work such as hill sprints and hill bounding (sport specific MaxS). TFTUA does not make reference to MaxS in the same way TFTNA does. However, TFTUA presents a very good build your own menu approach to planning meso and macro cycles, with specific progression of strength approaches including recommendations for mix of ME and sport specific MaxS in earlier base periods (whereas TFTNA seperates them in more distinct blocks).
Both books are complimentary and recommended. However, similar theory can be found in UA articles. For some reason I can’t link them but these are the URLs:
General overview:
This Kis article covers the MaxS protocol more explicitly:
See also this pre-season ski touring article which presents a typical MaxS protocol, both gym and sport specific:
See also this forum thread:
ParticipantAaron on December 20, 2020 at 9:30 pm · in reply to: Volume distribution and Z4 training in the BIG VERT plan #48407If I recall correctly the Friday hill sprints that start at 8 to 10 sec progess to ~2 min efforts late in the program, I think that is where the z4 comes in.
ParticipantOne nice thing about keeping all your data in Training Peaks, is that if/when you do go paid subscription you have yrs worth of training data you can review and see yr to yr comparisons. I am sure I will go back to paid at some point, just different financial priorities this yr :). Also, you need anyway if you do get a UA training plan.
ParticipantYou are right that the approach of presentation shifted slightly between the books, partly I understand to the authors learnings on the first book, and partly the differences in running and ski mountaineering (particularly skimo racing end).
TFTNA emphasized several distinct strength phases, with a very clear gym based MaxS component.
TFTUA put the gym focused strength work into a general strength class with three phases, moving from what I would call remdial to foundation to lower rep higher load max strengthish light(?). Then it moved into sport specific strength in which this category they included gym based ME as well as outdoor sport specific MaxS like work such as hill sprints and hill bounding, and outdoor ME work such as weighted hill climbs and Z3 hill intervals. TFTUA also shifted approach in building macro, meso and micro cycles in more of a here are all the key ingredients, sample recipes and sample menus across the progressions for different sports. It presents generalized progressions through ‘base’, ‘intensity’, ‘specific’, ‘rest’ and ‘goal’ weeks, with recommendations on weekly approaches to specific workouts in each phase type. Particularly relevant to your question is that it shows early base weeks as including both ME and ~MaxS workouts such as hill sprints and hill bounding.
So….I find both books complimentary, as are the various strength articles on this site such as the strength series. Also, I have one training plan (Mike Foote Big Vert) and it is really helpful to to see a 20 week progression laid out with all the logic explained in and consistent with the TFTUA. I recommend getting both, esp if you are mixing mountain running as a key goal along with alpine climbing.
Personally, over the last 5 yrs I am gravitating to a progression focused initially on ski mountaineering, then switching to mountain running: roughly Sept/Oct Transition and General Strength phase, Nov/Dec gym based MaxS focus with increasing aerobic volume, Jan to March bringing in 1x weekly gym ME and 1x weekly outdoor MaxS ski/hill bounding, then April a running transition increasing running volume gently with a short drop on the ME work and a refresh of the gym MaxS, then May to June back into gym ME and full running focus. My peaks are ski mountaineering goals in March/April, then mountain running goals in July to early Aug with Aug being more a just have fun month less structured time with late Aug/early Sept the yearly rest transition.
ParticipantThanks Trygve for the thoughts. Deadlifts on a oly bar were not a problem, in the full gym I did use that setup and it felt good. My issues/thinking was two fold and relates to simplicity of a home gym setup.
For a home gym only having one bar seeems like it would make running through a circuit of movements hard. Moving the bar from back squat position on a rack to floor for deadlift seems like a real pain at a weight that I would have to make harder dynamic movements to get it on and off.
Also, as a newbie to power lifts, I have no experience with heavier backsquat weight position. Particularly for one legged step ups I did not feel confident getting 200lbs on my back and doing one legged movements.
I started doing squats with a safety bar, and tried it on step ups too. I then tried the trap bar on squats and step ups and it felt fine.
So, my thinking is having a trap bar with full set of plates would let me keep the bar on the ground for all plate adjustments and movement starts and would allow me to eliminate having to have a squat rack. For my purposes of MaxS for mountain running and ski mountaineering I can’t see a real limitation, but was interested in the collective UA opinion to see if I am missing something. For sure I won’t be able to do olympic lifts, but that is not in my plans.
Tony Gentilcore is one of my go to strength coaches for general learning, and he has a pretty clear opinion on trap bars: https://tonygentilcore.com/2017/05/trap-bar-deadlift-not-cheating/ 🙂
ParticipantI’ve let my paid subscription lapse, and have started using the goal entry at the start of each week, with a new bulleted goal for each days planned workout (very light on details as working off same basic workouts for ~5yrs). I also put week type (base, intensity, specific, goal as per TFTUA), and vert, km, time or TSS goal for the week.