I’ve been running in Hokas the past couple years. But all this uphill work is new. I like the cushy Hoka ride, but I think I will maybe try an 8mm shoe. Any suggestions? Altra and Hoka don’t make one. The Salomon looks interesting.
AshRick
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ParticipantParticipant
Thanks for the followup and words of support. I did 2x per week ART for four weeks. Two sessions of dry needling. Nothing really changing.
I’m now trying a cycle of isolated soleus strengthening. The pain is mainly focused in the gastroc, so maybe it’s being overworked because of weak soleus…? Going to keep trying things.
ParticipantAshRick on March 4, 2021 at 2:40 pm · in reply to: Zone 2 and ADS – Should I Run Trails, or no? #51573“As mentioned, don’t be frustrated. “Mountain running” is used because it’s sexier than “hiking races.” Almost everyone, always, walks the uphills, even pros if it’s steep enough.”
Yes! This is so true. I posted a pretty strong round trip up and down Half Dome, for my age group (No. 1 round trip on Strava; No. 2 uphill). And I ran maybe 500 yards of the uphill part. I got up in 2:40 moving time, vs a typical 5-6 hour hike. So…it’s still race-pace. But it wasn’t really running.
It has been a pleasant surprise to me just how fast I can hike uphill as I’ve built fitness. My Saturday workout is 6.5 miles, with 4000ft of vert. I can get up that comfortably in under 2 hours now. Well within Z1-2. And I run maybe a half mile of that where it’s flat.
There’s a blog post out there of a proven pacing strategy for Leadville that involves 60 miles of walking, and coming in comfortably under the 30 hour cutoff.
ParticipantAshRick on February 18, 2021 at 11:19 am · in reply to: Zone 2 and ADS – Should I Run Trails, or no? #50980My personal journey the past few months…
I’ve got great trails here. Issue is…my go-to trails are pretty much >10% grade. Meaning — I walked them all for the past year. Even did some 4-hour days, with 4500+ feet of vert. Walking up, running down.
Then I took an easy week. Then did a 3-week block with Tuesdays as 3-4 x 8′ Zn4 (at or above AnT) uphill intervals with 5-7′ easy between. Good warmup and cooldown. Uphill routes were chosen so they were runnable. 3-6% grade. These are not flat-out intervals. Choose an effort that you *could* hold for an hour if you needed to.
Saturday run: Warmup, then the same intervals as Tuesday, then continue on with 1.5 – 2.0 hour Zn1 run. Saturday runs were tough, but I still did easy runs Sunday and was recovered after day off Monday.
Before that block, I had to focus to keep HR under 145 (AeT). Now I have to focus in the other direction to get above 140! Going over 140 is now “work.”
I can now run up some of the grades I used to walk. As soon as it flattens out, HR drops right back down under 140.
That tempo block worked out great. But — I only did it after about six months of basic Z1-2 running (and walking) all the time.
ParticipantHow does one go about a gait analysis?
Diana — great tip. I will try that.
I made an appointment with an “active release therapy” practitioner. Some have suggested that I have old lingering damage or scar tissue in the muscle and this might help.
ParticipantRachel — yes. I’ve had week off, month off, etc. Any amount of returning to running…sore calves.
Every other muscle seems to adapt to training load. If I haven’t done downhill in a while, my quads will be sore after a downhill session. But…with repeated sessions, they don’t get sore.
But the calf muscles just never seem to adapt to any amount of running, insofar as soreness goes.
ParticipantAdd…My running form is, according to coaches at clinics over the years, well within normal styles. I have a mainly midfoot strike, with a light heel-first contact that rolls onto my midfoot. So…I’m not running on my toes or anything. I’m careful to keep my heel on the ground when running and walking uphill.
ParticipantOh…to address your question about weekly goals…no simple answer. Newbies…6-8 hours a week. Veteran, experienced athletes…9-12 and up. Good guidance in the books.
Think in terms of hours, not miles and Vert. The latter numbers are driven by your fitness/speed and the terrain you’re on.
ParticipantMy personal benchmark is to reach fitness over a goal distance/elevation no worse than 2x the FKT for that route. If no FKT, then maybe a Strava segment if there is one.
FWIW…I’m 60 and am new to mountain running.
ParticipantFrom long experience in multi-sport…
The cross training effect is limited to your first couple weeks of a new activity.
Once you can run more than a few miles…fitness for the different sports might as well be on different planets.
If you’re in shape to run, say 9 minute miles at AeT, you can cycle train your arse off and you’ll still run 9’s.
Cross training effects in a fit person are nil.
ParticipantI can’t answer the question about TRIMP conversion, but…
From long experience with TSS (going back 20 years chatting with Andy Coggan) and using T-peaks…
In T-peaks, for running workouts, change the TSS number it reports to rTSS. The resulting numbers look and feel more correct. The only other edit I make is to add some points for big vert days. 10 points per 1000 ft, as recommended on here. That feels about right. 3.5 hours at Z1 to low-Z2 comes in at ~180 rTSS. But add 30-40 points for 4000ft of vert — 210-220 feels about right, insofar as it gives an indication of training load and recovery need.
ParticipantAdd…my knee pain isn’t the cartilage between the surfaces, it’s in the knee cap. Hence, I can absorb normal running, but even moderate loaded hyperflexion hurts.
ParticipantAshRick on January 5, 2021 at 6:06 pm · in reply to: Fasted training vs training longer with fuel #48854I’ve been morning running on an empty stomach for years. I didn’t know it was a “thing” until recently.
That said, I go no longer than 2 hours without calories. 2 hour run … no food.
Planning 3 hours or longer? I start calories at 90 minutes and eat one serving (bar, pouch of gummies, etc.) per hour.
This fall I did a 3.5 hour hilly run with no calories. I got through it fine and felt good about myself.
Then slept all day and took two days to recover properly. Not a good idea.
ParticipantWe’re going from the S Kaibab trailhead, start and finish. That’s about 41 miles. But all of the uphill — about 11,000ft. Hard to know how it will go. I did Half Dome in October (on my 60th) from Happy Isles. About 14 miles and 5,000 ft of uphill. I got up in 2:35 and round trip in 4:40. At 3x the miles and over twice the climbing…R2R2R is going to be tough. The thought of starting that 6.5 mile 5,000ft climb at the end…gives me motivation to keep the training up!
ParticipantThis is awesome to hear. I’m 60 and will be doing R2R2R in late April with my son. He does 14rs all summer and goes uphill like a mountain goat. I hope to not slow him too much!
Our goal is 12 hours. That’s 2x the FKT and I’ve done some other (shorter) routes in about 2x the standing FKT. I’m in week one of adding ME to my routine. I think that’s what I’ve been missing. I have the AeT base, but my legs blow up going steep uphill for very long.