[rich.b]

rich.b on December 7, 2023 at 6:31 am · in reply to: Ultra-Trail Snowdonia in 22 Weeks? #83082

Given your training volume and experience training, I would personally consider 22 weeks to be plenty of time. Think of many of the top ultra runners who spend their winters skiing nowadays and who then transition quite rapidly into running season.

Recovery is quite individual and of course depends amongst other things on your training going into the event (that is, the 82 km race) and how hard you choose to run that prep race. Before A races, I have often done a B race maybe 8 weeks out; this longer spacing because I still would run it as a proper race, only that I was not yet in peak form for the A race. Admittedly, if I enter a race, I run to do as well as I can (only once I have entered a race purely as training for another race, which was mentally tough to accept), so I need some recovery time and then still a few more weeks training for the A race.
But you know best your recovery capacities, and presumably if you take it as a long training run and you go into it having a good training base, 4 weeks can be enough.

rich_b

[rich.b]

rich.b on November 23, 2023 at 11:12 am · in reply to: Ski Erg / Ski machine for mountain ultra pole use #82445

Johan,

You mentioned that you considered it a disadvantage not using poles, and I am not sure that I fully agree. Obviously, on one level being comfortable using poles is one factor. But in the past when I did a few races in the Alps (2013–2017), I never used poles and given my experience using them now, I still would not have used them at that time. Using them now at 60 is a different discussion, but I should add that at that time, like you, I would also typically be in the top 5% in my A races and 10% in B races. The main reason for no poles is that at that time, uphills and specifically uphill power-hiking – pushing with hands on thighs – were one of my main strengths and I passed people rather than being passed. I would lose places on downhills instead.

First, power-hiking felt most natural for me and I felt it easier to transition in and out of running (other running acquaintances do not find this natural), and second I had the muscular endurance for it, in part because I targeted some of my training for it. I live at sea level and only have a little ski hill to train on with 46 m with about 300 m or so distance; better than nothing but not super helpful for alpine climbs and boring after 20 reps. But I would practice transitioning back and forth between running the bottom 2/3 into power-hiking mode for the top 1/3. In the winter I would do a spinning session every week or two, often choosing an interval session: 10-15 min warm-up then 30-60 intervals mixing high cadence, slow grind, standing, and heavy seated grind that mimicking power-hiking with hands pushing on thighs, and after each interval jumping off and doing 10 squats, lunges or jump squats with 10-15 kg, 1-2 min recovery then next interval. Typically 10 intervals, then filling out the time to 1 hour. Sometimes I might just do it as an alpine climb and after warming up slowly increasing resistance every 2 min until I was in power-hiking mode, then working my way back down; again aiming for a total session of 1 hour. I aimed for one proper gym strength session per week, mainly doing heavy weights with few reps, plus tacking on 1-2 lighter weight sessions during the week onto the back of my morning run commute. Finally, 6 and 3-4 weeks out from the race, driving 2+ hours to a ski hill with 250 m vert over 1.5 km service road, mainly for conditioning my quads for the downhills and not so much for uphills.

Don’t know if this would be any help.
/rich

[rich.b]

rich.b on November 17, 2023 at 7:32 am · in reply to: Ski Erg / Ski machine for mountain ultra pole use #82297

I occasionally use a SkiErg and in the summer run a lot with poles. Mainly I use it just to maintain some double-poling strength for nordic skiing rather than being directly useful for running with poles. I find it very different to carry and run with poles for a few to several hours, plus the range of motion and the rhythm I use running with poles is very different from training on a SkiErg, whether double poling or classic poling. The SkiErg is not unhelpful, but as others commented, they’re other exercises that can achieve the same thing (without the cost of buying the machine).

[rich.b]

rich.b on September 12, 2023 at 8:13 am · in reply to: New to ultra #80918

Training advice has already been given, but there are also a couple other considerations. One is deciding to what extent you want to maintain your triathlon fitness, or whether you are thinking of going ‘all in’ on training for UT4M. Another way of thinking about that is to determine what your ambition level is. Even if ‘go all in’ is your aim, cross-training can be healthy. I have used cycling as my first recovery tool, for example the day after a downhill session (I don’t have local vertical of note available, so have had to drive somewhere to do isolated vertical days.) A second consideration is finding a late-spring race of intermediate distance to gain some experience of racing in the mountains. You already seem to have experience of long days in the mountains hiking, but it would be good to gain some experience racing in them. In a race I can sustain a much higher level of effort (and HR) than in training, and in such cases you gain some specific insights into fueling strategies in a race setting – food/fuel that works fine in training may not be what you want/like during a race – and how your legs might feel running long downhills at a race pace. It is hard to replicate some things in training. A race might also help you identify what your strengths/weakness are, which would allow you to adjust your training in the time before the main race focus. I imagine there are quite a few easily accessible races near to Grenoble.

But mainly, just enjoy the process.

[rich.b]

rich.b on August 12, 2023 at 12:03 am · in reply to: Is there any benefit to a single overnight trip at altitude? #80341

Similarly, I live at sea level, and researched this question extensively some years back (and try to stay updated) before a race in the Alps. The short answer would be ’not really’ in terms of physical benefits. That said, those short trips could help you adapt mentally to how it feels to move at altitude and how to pace your effort. I was able to arrive a week early as part of vacation, which allowed overcoming the biggest dip in altitude effects, but it was the opportunity to gauge my effort at altitude and the more extreme vertical that paid off the most. Big difference going from a 40 m ski hill to non-stop 1000 m climbs, and the ability to adjust mindset to that was critical.

[rich.b]

rich.b on March 15, 2023 at 6:22 am · in reply to: Increasing Training Volume but no progress? #76347

Hej Alex, one question is whether over time you have more-or-less followed the same training structure. In such a case you may have adapted to that increased volume and plateaued and your body needs new training stimuli. Taking a critical look at your training structure would be useful, whether done on your own or with a coach to provide an outside perspective.

[rich.b]

rich.b on July 30, 2022 at 12:23 am · in reply to: Downhill training #69557

Similar to others, my HR downhill will never come up to what it is on the uphill. Separate from that, as to getting faster downhill, obviously downhill training is key. However, I find that regular speedwork training is also essential. Despite more vertical in recent years, I have actually gotten slower on the downhills because I have gotten lazy about speedwork — both intervals and tempo sessions. (I will admit there is also an age factor.) That kind of speedwork without adding the technical component of trails and downhills was essential for me for developing good leg speed and efficient turnover, which I could then apply to downhill running on trails once winter ended.

[rich.b]

rich.b on June 4, 2022 at 11:36 am · in reply to: Overtraining #67992

Good question. Keep in mind that overtraining is not just about ’overtraining’ as a standalone issue. Overtraining syndrome results from a chronic state where the cumulative total of all stresses is greater relative to recovery – this includes the actual training, but also all other life stresses in relation to the recovery, which would include sleep quantity and quality and nutrition. Fatigue from a harder/longer run or during a particular training block with higher volume or intensity is normal, but when this is a chronic state then there can be problems. Which I had the joy of experiencing for a large part of 2021. Just keep in mind to insure adequate recovery day-to-day, but also with regular periods of recovery.
Cheers.

[rich.b]

rich.b on May 23, 2022 at 8:12 am · in reply to: What to do with strong, but maybe useless quads? #67508

As a formerly avid telemarker back in the mid/late-1980s and a runner since, I can say that running never helped me much the few times I ever pulled out the old tele-skis (Karhu Extreme, so we are talking pretty old). Different demands, as you describe from the other direction. So seemingly there is a lot of aerobic base building to be done. However, by your description of what you are doing when you bike, it gives the impression you are working too hard, especially how you describe on a bike trainer. Your approach to training may be subconsciously biased from your long experience from telemarking, as suggested by your references to power output and strength intervals. Endurance building is slow, steady work.

Wiser voices will likely/hopefully come with better comments, but what you describe is essentially one of the key topics Uphill Athlete focuses on – aerobic deficiency: https://uphillathlete.com/aerobic-deficiency-syndrome/

lycka till
/rich

[rich.b]

rich.b on May 18, 2022 at 4:01 am · in reply to: Easy running in zone 1 and 2 feely extremely difficult after recovering from OTS #67321

OTS for me was a combination of same amount of training hours per week (9–12 hours/week) during winter 20/21 but broken up into more smaller bits to accommodate running, training with an adult dog and building up the condition of a puppy – for quite a while it was 30-45 minutes 3 times per day; and reduced sleep quality with a puppy (compounded by our early sunrise in the far north; 3:15 a.m. right now). The transition out of winter 20/21 to bare ground season physically seemed to start well, but the chronic under-recovery from reduced sleep quality I believe was the bigger factor that did me in. Although maybe the specific circumstances were unique, it was essentially classic chronic imbalance between recovery and stress.
More-or-less recovered from OTS now, I believe; the main challenge is still re-calibrating the balance between the bikejoring/skijoring with the 2 dogs and running, but it is working well now. I have avoided longer runs (>2.5 hr) so far and am only just rebuilding that endurance – but think during July I should be back pretty close to a normal solid base and plan on a 100k in August. For that, however, I will not be at 100% race form, so the goal will be to put in a good, but very controlled effort and not go absolutely all in.

[rich.b]

rich.b on May 17, 2022 at 8:16 am · in reply to: Easy running in zone 1 and 2 feely extremely difficult after recovering from OTS #67300

Last summer I dealt with OTS and it was similar to how you describe it, where the effort felt hard but HR did not increase in similar fashion and resting HR was maybe 2-3 bpm higher than when properly rested. The path into and path out of OTS are likely individual, but for me it was a matter of patience and accepting I dug myself into a bit of a hole (but I can try to lay the blame on raising a second dog for skijoring). Not getting outside was not a realistic/acceptable option, so I did continue to train, but with reduced volume, only easier effort (both in terms of RPE and HR), and no long runs – the total opposite of what would normally describe the summer season. Just as with coming back from an injury, every now and then I would push for a short section just to test how it felt, but never as a sustained effort. In short, it was a patience game.

[rich.b]

rich.b on May 13, 2022 at 4:48 am · in reply to: Troubleshooting performance at elevation and training #67096

As you note, George, reality is not alway conducive to doing what is optimal. All research comes with caveats, which for acclimatising typically includes focus on elite athletes, small study groups, specific altitudes, specific timeframes. The declines in performance with altitude occur pretty much immediately, and day 1 is the already the low point (up to day 3). Fly-in/fly-out is a bit of misnomer, because you have travel to the starting line, which means you are likely well into day 1 or even into day 2. After day 3 there seems to to be the start of a recovery. As noted already, 14 days is the optimal compromise based on athletes needing to move between competitions (although the optimal is a few months) for parameters such as power output and time to exhaustion, but after 7 days you get about half way there (Schuler et al. 2007. Scand J Med Sci Sports). Hydration as Lindsay points out is always considered important.

When I was going to run in the Alps for the first time – I live at sea level in a low-topography landscape – I spent a chunk of time researching what to do about acclimatising (I work at a uni so have incredible access to research journals), and aimed for one week before race day (partly a good excuse for a family vacation). There were two parts to acclimatising, I believe: one was some adaptation to the altitude (the race finished at 3000 m) and getting a sense of how it impacted me, the second was also mentally adapting pacing to the much longer climbs paired with altitude. It was not only a matter of going from 30 m above sea level to 3000 m, but also from training on a hill with only 47 m of vertical to continuous climbs lasting up to 1000 m of vertical. The point I am trying to get at, is that I found it critical to re-calibrate my pacing and effort and get a better sense of where I felt like I was red-lining and risking a blow out versus what felt sustainable. I suppose settling into your own pace/rhythm might be easier in a race than if on an adventure outing with a partner. And not being paid to acclimatise as a professional athlete, we can only do what reality allows.

[rich.b]

rich.b on May 6, 2022 at 6:57 am · in reply to: Running form while training #66671

Not to cop out, but training both running and hiking are important – glutes are critical for both. But running and hiking have different gaits, where hiking does use the calves more. A critical question to ask is how much you hike versus run on uphills – this should dictate which you emphasise (as Thomas was indicating). That said, I consider them equally important, which includes as well the ability to rapidly transition back and forth based on both on variations in terrain and in racing strategy at particular points.
For training, on the tiny local ski hill (all of 47 m of vertical) I will do some repeats as runs and some repeats where I switch mid-way where the incline steepens a bit from running to power hiking (with or without poles). [Or at least will do them once the snow melts enough to leave an open track up.]

[rich.b]

rich.b on May 3, 2022 at 3:40 am · in reply to: 50k in 6 weeks? #66497

As long as your goal for the 50 km is in line with where your training is at, it would be doable. What to do with the 6 weeks (now a bit less) until then is the question, and my thoughts only reflect how I would approach it if I were in your situation. Subtracting for a period of recovery/taper before hand then this leaves less than 5 weeks, and ramping up both distance and vertical simultaneously can be a tall order. How to balance those (endurance, vertical) also depends somewhat on your strengths/weaknesses in those areas – that is, what will give you the most payoff over the short timeframe.

I am more comfortable (psychologically as much as physically) having confidence in my endurance first, and for me a few dedicated vertical sessions go a long way. The idea of running the 32 km course with 1500 m vertical as a training round sounds good (and like a good day out on its own), because it hits both of the points: one, it would let you know if 50 km would be a stretch and you could make the switch in race distance if it feels like 50 km would not be a good idea; and two, based on your comments that maybe your vertical training thus far is limited, it would prime your quads for the downhills on race day. If you don’t have the vertical base, then this would possibly destroy your quads for a few days or more, so best done 2 weeks out from the race in order to be recovered. That would leave less than 4 weeks until then, over which time endurance might pay off more, but with some hill sessions to prep for the training round on the 32 km course.

Anyway, an interesting challenge as to how to approach it!

[rich.b]

rich.b on April 29, 2022 at 3:03 am · in reply to: What to do when recovering from ME workouts #66370

The answer is likely individual, and for me it would depend where I am in the big picture of a training cycle. Running on tired legs can be good sometimes, but I would not want to do that on a regular basis nor if it is more than average DOMS. In such cases I opt to cycle because I can still do a productive training session, and I find it helps recovery from DOMS more than doing total rest.
More fundamental, however, might be figuring out what is it within the ME workouts that is leaving you with such lasting DOMS that significantly impacts your running. I would consider the equation from that side maybe first.
cheers/rich