00:00:09.00
Chantelle
Welcome to the Uphill Athlete podcast. Our mission is to elevate and inspire all mountain athletes through education and celebration. Your host today will not be Alyssa Clark. Instead, you’re stuck with me. I’m Chantel Robitaille and I’m the director of coaching at Alyssa. And I will be interviewing Alyssa Clark today. So we’re switching things around a little bit. Those of you listening to our podcast for a while may know Alyssa as an awesome mountain athlete, podcast host and coach, but you might also know that she is an accomplished professional trail runner or you might not. So I’m doing this interview with her today a little bit selfishly because I would like to learn a little bit more about what her journey at the UTMB race this year meant to her. She’s had a little time to process it. She’s been interviewed.

00:01:04.23
Chantelle
a few different times on her performance. Um, so I want to share a little bit about that performance for our listeners who may not be running fans. So for the non runners in the group, uh, UTMB is considered to be the pinnacle of a hundred mile trail races by runners around the world. It’s a pretty tough race. It covers 106 miles or 170 kilometers along the trail de Mont Blanc.

00:01:32.85
Chantelle
It starts and ends in Chamonix, France, and it runs through France, Italy, and Switzerland. There are 10, 10 in flashing lights, 10 alpine summits along this challenging route, and the runners cover over 32,000 feet or 10,000 meters of vertical gain. Alyssa planned her 2024 season around this race, and her finish time of 26 hours 25 minutes and 13 seconds, put her in 11th place in the fastest field of women who have ever raced this course. So just to give that some perspective, if she ran this time just two years ago, this time would have landed her in the top five. And Alyssa is showing not only female athletes, but all athletes what’s possible in this sport. And so since we’re coming to the end of 2024, I thought it would be a great chance to

00:02:29.17
Chantelle
talk to Alyssa about her race. And beyond just talking about her incredible performance, I wanted to help share a story about a great athlete who’s not only an incredible performer, but an incredible whole human being. And so today we’ll be exploring her race journey beyond just the stats and the numbers. Alyssa, are you ready for this?

00:02:52.73
Alyssa
Man, I’m going to hire you to be my hype woman. I mean, I was going to before, but, uh, yeah, very true.

00:02:57.25
Chantelle
I’m always your hype woman.

00:03:00.60
Alyssa
Yes. I am psyched, ready to go. Yeah. Definitely had some time to process. It feels like a lifetime ago, but I’m excited to talk about it more.

00:03:11.59
Chantelle
Awesome. That’s great. And I think at this time of the year for a lot of people, whether they are runners or not, we’re thinking about what the year meant to us. What did 24 mean to us? What did we achieve? How did we reach our goals? What kind of goals are we setting for the upcoming year? So I hope this conversation gives our listeners a little bit of inspiration to think back about how far they have come in this past year as well.

00:03:37.09
Chantelle
because every year has some ups and downs. But it’s a good time at the end of the year to really focus on the ups and what went well, rather than being stuck in the challenging bits. So to start off with Alyssa, as I mentioned, UTMB is often seen as sort of the pinnacle of trail running and ultra running. It’s kind of like our World Series if we put it into another, a wider known sports venue. So how did you mentally approach this race differently from others in your career and how did that impact your training leading up to it and also your performance?

00:04:21.83
Alyssa
yeah you know that’s a very there’s so many layers to that question because i think it goes back to just honestly how long it has taken me to race utmb is that I really wanted to put my best foot forward at utmb when I decided to race it I’ve been racing ultras for about nine years I started pretty young at 22 and I kept kind of putting UTMB off because I kept saying like I want to give it everything I have and be ready for it when I do it and so

00:05:01.90
Alyssa
that’s why nine years of kind of being in the sport competitively before I decided that I was going to uh take a shot at it um so as far as preparation well I guess that started back in 23 I got in off of um a utmb place through canyons 100 and utmb it was on my radar but i still wasn’t entirely sure I was going to do it. And then it was like, well, you know, people work their lifetimes to get a spot at UTMB. Like, I’m just gonna, I’m gonna go for it ah in 2024. And so I signed up for the race. And that is a whole part of the discussion is it was actually a huge

00:05:52.19
Alyssa
evolution of how my mindset was in let’s say January when I signed up for the race and how my mindset was honestly up until August. heading into the race. So if we were to start in January, ah my mindset was I have to be more disciplined, work harder, take out more things in my life, and just do absolutely everything right, right, I’m saying that in quotation marks, to be the best that I can be. And if I don’t,

00:06:24.64
Alyssa
do all of those things, I will fail and I will be a bad ultra runner. Like I won’t have accomplished my goals. And so I started just doing exactly that.

00:06:39.58
Alyssa
I kept removing things from my life. And one of those things was my joy for running. I just felt like every workout, I felt this burden of if I don’t do this exactly right,

00:06:46.51
Chantelle
Hmm.

00:06:53.65
Alyssa
Then I didn’t have a shot and so that led to shockingly very unfun sessions and also just not good results. It felt like I was putting myself just on this absolute perfection pedestal of like if I don’t hit everything, there’s only one outcome. And if I don’t hit that outcome, then it’s a failure. And the amazing thing is like, in theory, I know better than that.

00:07:30.87
Alyssa
don’t we all. And I can say that to my clients. But when you try to say it to yourself, you’re like, well, I’m different in that, like, it’s gonna work for me. It’s like, no, it doesn’t work for anyone. And so that led to a DNF at a very big race at Madeira. And led me to a lot of self reflection of how miserable I was. And I think you can ask most people that running is like I love running. I run best when I’m happy, when I have joy and when I’m just stoked. Like I have a smile on my face, sometimes a grimace because I’m trying hard. It’s not to say it’s not hard, but I just love what I do. I mostly relate to husky puppies because they just love to run. I’m like, I get it. I’m with you. I often say it’s the best part of my day every day when I get to go run.

00:08:26.05
Alyssa
And it really is like running and breathing are the two things that make the most sense to me. And I felt that deeply slipping away because I was replacing all of that joy with just this hardness and discipline that just wasn’t fun. And I was comparing myself every run. um So after Madeira, I made a lot of changes, I switched coaches, and

00:08:57.73
Alyssa
I just took a hard look at what I wanted out of it. And I mean, Chantelle, you were so instrumental in this process, you’ve heard a lot of tears and just indecision. And I think I’ve said this before, but like, it seems kind of nuts before the biggest race, quote unquote, of your career, to make a coach change after five years with my old coach to bring someone new on you know, like three months out, three, four months out um of your biggest race.

00:09:27.39
Alyssa
And it was exactly the right decision that needed to happen. And there’s no way I would have gotten where I got to if I hadn’t done that. um So I did 100 miler in June, the San Diego 100 that went way better.

00:09:43.62
Alyssa
It was really fun. My brother paced me like, just had a great time kind of

00:09:46.89
Chantelle
Oh that’s great.

00:09:48.32
Alyssa
brought me back to my roots and my joy and I didn’t feel that pressure um that I had felt before. But it wasn’t, that still wasn’t gone, that old mindset totally. So I started working with mental, well actually, no, then I DNF’d.

00:10:06.20
Alyssa
another race in July. That was a lot of logistical things. But again, I still had this mindset, and I’m catching myself doing it as I’m heading into another race, where I put this pressure on myself. If I don’t have this exact outcome, then this race is a failure. And that, again, is a surefire way to make something not go the way you want it to. um And so that happened. And then I was like, Hey,

00:10:34.86
Alyssa
John, my new coach, this mental performance coach who suggested I need to start ASAP. Because actually when I talked to John after Quebec, which was the DNF, I said to him, John, I don’t even think I should race UTMB this year. I think I should do TDS. I just don’t feel ready. Like how am I going to perform against the best in the world if I can’t even finish a race or have the confidence in myself to, um you know, even stand on the start line.

00:11:03.44
Alyssa
And he was like, well, I really think you should take some time to think about that. But in July, early July, I wasn’t even gonna race UTMB. Like I’d convinced myself that I was not worthy.

00:11:12.53
Chantelle
Hmm.

00:11:14.85
Alyssa
of racing UTMB. So that’s probably a pretty strong indicator of where I was at mentally started working with a mental performance coach, and decided like, No, I really love 100 milers. I’m gonna do it. Whatever happens happens. Went to Chamonix and just started finding joy and curiosity and working on a lot of mental strategies.

00:11:40.95
Alyssa
which we can get into more and I stood at the start line feeling honestly like I was prepared for anything to happen and that whatever did happen I trusted my training I trusted what I invested in it and that there were so many things that I couldn’t control all I was gonna do was control what I could and I a lot of things went wrong.

00:12:06.11
Alyssa
And ah it’s like, yeah, as they do.

00:12:07.02
Chantelle
As they do.

00:12:08.93
Alyssa
And what’s insane is I like, on paper, like that was a very solid first attempt at UTMB.

00:12:19.11
Alyssa
Most people race UTMB multiple years in a row. A lot of people DNF their first one as well, I think because you’re just like, whoa, this is a lot. And so it takes several years to kind of figure it out.

00:12:33.60
Alyssa
And I had a pole break. My stomach was kind of a mess. I used the bathroom. I met every porta potty along the way. I know them all. And I was just so mentally calm and stable and what I knew I was capable of doing, none of that mattered. And that is something that I have had to work really hard on getting to that place. And it’s not something I’m just like,

00:13:03.38
Alyssa
did it in UTMB and now I’m good I’m gonna do it the rest of my life that’s not all that’s also not true but yeah so it’s really sorry that was a very long winded answer um yeah it was a very strong evolution and also a great reminder that ultra running is just such a like you just keep learning every like and no one has it figured out you just keep putting more

00:13:12.96
Chantelle
no but but that’s great

00:13:33.29
Alyssa
tools in your toolbox to Adapt and adjust and I think that’s why we see so many Ultra runners when they’re in their 30s and 40s being successful is because they have learned how to deal. It’s not that they’ve learned how not to have issues come up.

00:13:37.54
Chantelle
No, that’s great.

00:13:52.01
Alyssa
They’ve learned how to deal with those issues and so I’m just excited of feeling like I’ve added some tools into my toolbox and Getting to a keep applying them

00:14:04.87
Chantelle
I think that’s great. And I think you used a really keyword evolution. I think you’ve definitely had an evolution this year. And one of the biggest ones is that you learned that there’s more to success than just having perfect workouts. That was a big one, right? And I remember having a conversation with you one day where you were very upset and you were very much in tears. And we came to a really simple, but important conclusion.

00:14:30.63
Chantelle
that you race better when you’re happy and you race better when you have your people around you. You race better when you feel like you’re in a community. And there’s a, I’m probably going to mess up this quote that she uses, but there’s a wonderful sports ecologist named Kristin Kime, and she says, happy racers race fast.

00:14:51.61
Chantelle
And that’s so true. And you learn to have some compassion for yourself. You learn to get vulnerable and speak about your needs and see your needs as just needs. They were not bad. You know, having needs is not a bad thing. There’s a difference between having needs and being needy. You’re far from being needy, but you got over a feeling that having needs was needy and reached out for the type of support that you needed. And that did help you evolve. That did help you to grow.

00:15:21.00
Chantelle
And addressing some of the emotional and mental patterns that you had and addressing those helped you to physically be stronger and be more adaptable, which I think is super cool. um And 100 miles is a long time, right? Shit is going to go sour and shit is going to go south. And I’m thinking about like, it’s also, it’s a physical journey, right? With physical highs and lows.

00:15:46.98
Chantelle
but also emotional highs and lows. And I’m curious, as you have been going through this evolution when you were out there on that course, was there a particular moment that surprised you emotionally, whether it was a breakthrough moment or a setback moment?

00:16:04.83
Alyssa
Yeah, you know, I think that what was so interesting, I actually, it’s almost, uh, maybe I shouldn’t play in this narrative, but I will say I generally struggle at the beginning of races. I get inside my head really early on and often don’t feel that great. And so I hit a low pretty early, actually within the first 50 K.

00:16:28.78
Alyssa
And my stomach just really didn’t feel good. Um, and so I came into the first crude aid station and was like, Oh, this is not great. Like I really don’t feel good. I’d had, I mean, what’s insane about UTMB is when you’re not feeling good, like 15 women pass you, which is just not normal. And so you’re like, Oh man, like this is competitive. This is so much different. And I.

00:16:58.64
Alyssa
normally would have been so defeated by that. And I didn’t feel great. But then I was like, well, but I’ve really been working on my climbing. And I love this climb coming up. So I was like, cool, well I’m just gonna see what I can do on this climb. And then I started just moving up the field and feeling really good. And actually, from that point,

00:17:21.86
Alyssa
Col does the climb out of Contamine. I was not passed by another woman for the entire race. which and But the interesting thing, I guess, in terms of the mental piece is I didn’t care. I was just doing the best that I could with the training that I’d done. I was like, cool, well, I’ve worked really hard on running up hills, so I’m going to run up this hill. And I’m capable of doing that. And I never had that confidence in just like whatever anyone else is doing,

00:17:54.27
Alyssa
It’s great for them, but I know what I’m capable of doing. And I had so completely trusted what I’d done and trusted my capacity to do it that I wasn’t thinking about the outcome. And I remember getting into Courmayeur and I had no idea what position I was in. I knew I was hitting my splits pretty like quite, I was like right where I wanted to be for my angle.

00:18:18.67
Alyssa
And I came in, I said to Codi, my husband, I was like, to be honest, I could drop out now. And I’m so proud of myself for how I’ve handled this race mentally in a way I’ve never done before and how calm I am. And I would feel like I was winning, like I felt like I was winning from just how much I felt I had done to improve my weaknesses and to just be in the moment and be in the process and he was like yeah you’re in such an amazing spot. I tend to run from the front

00:18:58.50
Alyssa
And this race, I think I was in like 83rd or I was really far back, in the women’s field to start. And I’ve never been one to like to move up through the field. Uh, and I was doing that in this race and he was just like, you’re doing exactly what, you know, we’d hoped for.

00:19:20.53
Alyssa
And you’re, you’re so happy. And that to me was like, wow, I’m just so thankful. Like I was just so thankful that no matter what, even if I dropped, like I was having the experience that I was, that I’d hoped to have and had worked hard to have.

00:19:41.62
Chantelle
That’s amazing and I think what a powerful moment that must have been when you were, you could have been doubting yourself, you could have been doubting your abilities, you could have been doubting your body, but instead of dwelling on where you’re at and that your stomach was sour, um it’s amazing that you were able to shift your focus to in on you and your ability and your strengths and to just stay with that. And I can remember checking in, you know, having some back and forth a little bit with your husband Cody while you were out there. And he was saying like, she’s just looking great. She’s so happy. And, you know, like other people are looking really miserable, but Alyssa looks so happy. And that was awesome to see because you could see where you were in the standings. And then you did see where that that turn started to change, that you were you were um

00:20:37.68
Chantelle
taking care of yourself and rather than trying to push yourself harder when your body was having some challenges, you were staying within yourself and making good choices, which is pretty awesome. um And hearing you say that you were right where you wanted to be, what I’m curious about, what was your sort of race strategy going into UTMB and how did it evolve for you as the race went along? Like, is there any point along the race that you’re consciously aware of or remember making any sort of unexpected changes or adjustments to the plan.

00:21:14.38
Alyssa
Yeah, so I was, I mean, you know, I hesitate to be like, yeah, I was shooting for a position in time because, you know, you never know what these races are, but like, ultimately, you also can’t be a pro, like your job is to do well. So that has to come into play. And so I wanted a top 10. That was, you know, kind of my, like,

00:21:36.82
Alyssa
holy crap that would be awesome and I thought to do that I would need to run to like secure securely be in the top 10 if I ran a 26 hour UTMB like that should do it so I was focusing a bit more and I find that time helps me a bit better than placement because time is something I can control more than play I can’t control what other people are doing turns out everyone ran really fast, which is awesome, but you know, it is what it is. So I set my I called it like my A plus school was sub 26. And my A goal was sub 27.

00:22:19.41
Alyssa
And then B goal was like 20, something like that. Um, and so and what was actually really interesting is I was talking to my coach cause he was out there on a shakeout run and I started bringing up, the hurt 100 and I was like, yeah, I really want to go for this golden hurt. And he’s like, okay, you seem like really stoked on that and really confident.

00:22:44.12
Alyssa
What about UTMB? Like literally the race that’s a few days away. And I was like, I don’t know because I’m scared. And he was like, Alyssa, you were crushing me on this uphill in this training run. You are so fit. Why not? It’s like, okay, that’s fair. That’s a really good point. And so I just kept hearing John in my head saying, you know, like, why not?

00:23:12.59
Chantelle
Mmm, that’s great.

00:23:12.52
Alyssa
You’re capable of doing that. Yeah, so that helped a ton in terms of having the confidence to be like, no, I’m going to try to run as close to 26 or below if I can.

00:23:23.91
Alyssa
So I hit Courmayeur ahead or like right on when I hit Courmayeur.

00:23:34.75
Alyssa
Yeah, I think I was like 10 and a half ish hours, maybe a little bit over that. So I was very comfortable where I needed to be a little bit ahead of it.

00:23:45.50
Alyssa
And I think that was definitely like a huge confidence boost. um Because that’s a tough section in decor mayor. And then I hit. Wow, I like these names that were literally stamped in my head so well.

00:23:58.73
Alyssa
And now like, oh, yeah, that place, ah the top of the climb out of

00:24:02.11
Chantelle
it’s all starting to fade

00:24:03.50
Alyssa
Yeah, it’ll come back really quick. The top of the climb out of Courmayeur, everyone says it’s kind of the halfway point more because the back half is harder. And so I hit that ah like 12-ish. um So I knew that if I didn’t just blow up, I was probably gonna be pretty close to that goal. And so that helped a lot. And to be honest, I left Courmayeur and was like,

00:24:33.61
Alyssa
Oh, I’ve worked hard. I was not fresh going up the climb, but I was like, I don’t care.

00:24:39.06
Alyssa
I’m just going to keep pushing. I’m going to keep doing the best I can, but I definitely, like I gave that race. I still think there’s a lot left on the table, but in terms of what I gave to that, because I think there’s other things I could fix that could allow me to have more energy and.

00:24:58.35
Alyssa
be more strategic, but I did not know how I was gonna get down the last three miles into Chamonix, because I had given everything I had on that day, ah which is a pretty exciting thing to say.

00:24:59.84
Chantelle
Mm hmm.

00:25:13.77
Alyssa
um But yeah, I think I was kind of like hitting time checkpoints. I was like, wow, not often do you get to say you’re hitting close to your A plus goal, whatever that means.

00:25:26.62
Chantelle
Yeah. I mean, that’s pretty amazing because typically, you know, it’s, I think it’s great as a coach working through a race strategy or plan with an athlete. We usually have like an, you know, an A goal and a B goal, but usually let’s be honest that.

00:25:40.30
Chantelle
that ah spreadsheet is as good as the day we write it, right?

00:25:41.87
Alyssa
rarely happens.

00:25:43.48
Chantelle
Like there are so many, there are so many variables that go into that.

00:25:43.66
Alyssa
Yeah.

00:25:47.47
Chantelle
And I can just imagine you thinking about those last three miles. It seems like I know what that course looks like and um what the body’s been through at that point. Like it seems so far away.

00:25:59.27
Chantelle
um And in general, you know, a race like this takes so much out of you mentally and physically. I’m curious if there is anything like thinking about that last stretch and where you were at and how much you had been through all the ups and downs in this race. um Are there any sort of personal values or mantras or something that you were drawing on to get you through the last that last section strongly and as strongly as possible when you had pretty much nothing left.

00:26:34.31
Alyssa
Yeah, well I started listening to MGK, ah Machine Gun Kelly, so that helped a lot. Just to actually title track one of his songs has been kind of my mantra of, honestly, my ultra running career because it’s kind of like, I mean, it’s about being the underdog and I have always identified as the underdog and which regardless of whether I am or not, it’s just a mindset that helps me a lot more.

00:27:08.56
Chantelle
Mm hmm.

00:27:08.71
Alyssa
So that definitely kept me going. And when I hit the checkpoint, the last crude aid station 10th was within reach.

00:27:24.86
Alyssa
Ish like it was worth chasing and so I was just chasing as hard as I could to try to get 10th like you know it’s really kind of annoying that one like I don’t know why it’s like 10 that’s you know Yeah, is what it is.

00:27:44.97
Alyssa
But something about that top 10 is magical. So it’s really gutting for that. And then on the last climb, I could see her and gosh, yeah, she was just a bit too far away for me to catch.

00:27:55.28
Chantelle
Mmm.

00:27:57.48
Alyssa
And so I think I did lose a bit of steam when I was like, I don’t think I can get her. um But to be honest, I think just the practice on like the course itself, when I, cause I was able to be out there for a while before the race and how much I had been like, okay, when I get to this point in the race, like you’re almost done. This is super exciting. You know, ah here, like you’ve trained on these hills, you’ve trained on this climb, you just need to stick with it. And so I think that the training time and the visualization I’d done while I was actually on the course was really helpful.

00:28:36.19
Chantelle
Mmhmm.

00:28:36.62
Alyssa
And also how, I mean, my goal was not to put my headlamp back on for the second night and I was able to do that. And so I think that was really motivating. Um, but I definitely was, I should have hit the calories a bit harder. I think that was part of why, but it’s so hard to convince yourself to keep eating when you’ve been eating.

00:28:59.73
Alyssa
nonstop for 20 something hours and you’re like, well, I’m almost done. It’s like, well, the last bit could feel a lot better if you kept putting calories down, but you’re just tired of eating them. Um, and yeah, I think just the poll, I will say because I did.

00:29:17.43
Alyssa
I know that I had quite a bit of room from 12 that probably if I had a little bit more pressure from behind, I would have pushed a bit harder, but I was kind of like, ah, well, you know, I am not going to catch 10th 12 probably isn’t going to catch me. I’m just going to get down. So that’s definitely an area of growth, I think is to keep the gas pedal down as hard as I can.

00:29:46.43
Chantelle
Yeah, I mean, i I can totally imagine that you’re, um you know, had you been a little closer to the 10th, you probably would have, you know, it’s like the the dog that’s tired on the run and suddenly it sees a squirrel, it finds the the burst, like you weren’t close enough to catching that squirrel.

00:29:59.45
Alyssa
yeah

00:30:03.82
Chantelle
um So that’s, you know, it’s and it’s always good to come away with things to to work on too, which I think is great. um But it is, you know it’s such a massive mental and physical challenge. and I’m sure you’re thinking a lot now about what are some things that you’re going to do differently. Obviously, you’ve won yourself another opportunity to go back, which is great. And you’ll be able to take a lot of those lessons forward. I’m curious though, like you know You’ve done a lot of hundred milers, you’ve done more than a hundred milers before. There are definitely times like mentally or physically where you just want to stop going or you’re not or you slow yourself down. Can you give a couple examples of how those thoughts might’ve been different in this race compared to another race in the past where you might’ve been in a similar situation?

00:31:00.70
Alyssa
Yeah, I mean, I did think that at Contamine. I was like, oh man, I could just drop right now because I don’t feel good. This isn’t really going that well. ah And then I think just the curiosity of getting to be in that event and wondering like, hey, can I turn this around? Can I keep going was really helpful. And I just wanted the full experience. Regardless of what that was going to be, I just wanted to know what it felt like to do UTMB. I think that that excitement and curiosity really pulled me out of the harder moments.

00:31:51.77
Alyssa
and

00:31:56.04
Alyssa
I think when things start turning around, it’s just like, hey, how can I keep doing this better? How can I keep going? Can I keep feeling better and putting my best foot forward? And so I think that really helped.

00:32:10.56
Alyssa
Also just, I mean, I find the course really inspiring. Like it’s so, It’s so perfect in so many ways. Like it’s just this beautiful loop and it makes complete sense. And I love so many of the different parts of it. So it’s like, Oh, I just want to get to the next part. Like I just want to, and I, I think most of us who were able to go early, like to know the loop really well. You know, you’ve trained a lot on it. And so I was also like, Oh yeah, I want to get to that point where I had this really good memory from it. Um,

00:32:45.97
Alyssa
So I think that definitely contributed and nothing was really wrong. And so I just was like, yeah, I’m just gonna keep putting my best foot forward.

00:33:00.47
Alyssa
um another this this sounds so dumb but i think it’s actually a big factor so the two races that i had dropped this year also i just was like i’m not dropping again unless there’s like something catastrophic like we’re not doing that anymore uh but the two races i dropped from were honestly so logistically hard to drop from where you’re just stuck for hours and hours and hours and had to take a really expensive taxi ride i was like i don’t want to

00:33:34.62
Alyssa
get stuck. So UTMB has it more figured out than I think other races just because it’s a little bit it’s like, I mean, it’s remote, certainly in places, but they do have such just ah it’s just such a massive race.

00:33:49.99
Alyssa
um But I was like, Oh, man, I don’t. I just don’t want to spend hours and hours and hours trying to get back. Like that’s so annoying.

00:33:56.82
Chantelle
That’s a good realization.

00:33:58.35
Alyssa
Yeah.

00:34:01.06
Alyssa
And I think this is what you said about how I find community so important. I had people like I had my husband waiting for me at the aid station. So I was like, well, I’m just gonna go see Cody. And I’m gonna go see my friends and like this person said they’re going to be out there. And I find that when I have a promise to people to get to the next aid station that I know I’m going to see them. My, I don’t really love the word motivation, but I think it does count in this sense. Like my motivation is significantly higher than when I feel like I’m passing through an aid station and just kind of like ah a face in the crowd.

00:34:50.86
Alyssa
Just having someone who’s waiting for me makes me feel accountable in a way that when I am alone at a race, I just don’t feel the same way. And that makes a big difference.

00:35:06.94
Chantelle
Yeah, it does. It can make a big difference, right? Because if you know that’s important to you, I think we had this conversation, right? Like early in your season, like, you know, that’s important to you.

00:35:18.33
Chantelle
It’s just a fact, right? And that’s like, let’s use it as a superpower if that’s what you know you need.

00:35:21.44
Alyssa
Yeah.

00:35:24.89
Chantelle
And I think that’s what, you know, for a lot of people, ah maybe they feel afraid to ask for something or to do something, but like, be real about what motivates you and just as much as you can bring those elements into your experience, like if give yourself every chance that you have to be successful. um And I also love a word that I heard you say a few times is curiosity, is staying curious, staying curious in terms of like what you could achieve, staying curious if I try this, how is that going to work? And then not seeing the outcome as a

00:36:03.65
Chantelle
as a pass or fail, but like just something that you tried and then and then just keep going. um I think another great ah voice and um athlete in our sport is Corinne Malcolm and one thing that I learned from her years ago as like her words of wisdom would be, don’t count yourself out.

00:36:26.29
Alyssa
Yeah.

00:36:27.55
Chantelle
Don’t count yourself out. If you show up there and you’re looking around and you think, oh shit, these people are faster than me, better than me, whatever. Nope, why not me? you know Why not me? you know And I’m curious about the day that I’m gonna have. And you know when something goes wrong and you have to adapt and you have to change course, you know stay curious about what you might be able to do to make things a little bit better for yourself. And don’t count yourself out because the mind is such a powerful tool. It is probably our most powerful tool. And if you put that seed in there that you are counting yourself out,

00:37:03.26
Chantelle
then you know it’s like if you think you can or you think you can’t, you know the answer, right?

00:37:07.99
Alyssa
right

00:37:10.46
Chantelle
So staying curious right until the end sounds like something that you were able to do and also not counting yourself out and running happy, putting yourself, you know putting up the things that you knew were going to set yourself up for success with having your most important so important hype man, ah Cody, on the course with you.

00:37:33.07
Chantelle
spending time on the trails getting familiar with it and like treating those it almost feels to me like you made those trails your friend you got to know them right you got to know them you got to spend lots of time on them you got to count on them you gotta trust them and when you were running out there it was like

00:37:40.77
Alyssa
Yeah.

00:37:51.04
Chantelle
hanging out with a friend that you already knew. It was a known and you know in some way unknown entity. And I think you did a lot of really great things to put yourself mentally and physically in a good spot, which I think is really great.

00:38:05.45
Chantelle
um

00:38:05.91
Alyssa
Thanks. Yeah, I’ll just just add to that, because I think one of the things that I did well, I guess just in the race, like I was very my mantra was stay here, be here.

00:38:19.50
Alyssa
And this is what winning feels like. And I’m not. I didn’t win.

00:38:23.03
Chantelle
Love it.

00:38:23.29
Alyssa
I’ll just say that. But ah one of the

00:38:25.03
Chantelle
But you did win.

00:38:26.57
Alyssa
Yeah, I yeah, yeah.

00:38:26.87
Chantelle
You did win. It wouldn’t win for you.

00:38:29.75
Alyssa
And the two parts with that is, and this is directly related to working with a mental performance coach is that he, like, you can’t control the future and you can’t control the past.

00:38:42.26
Alyssa
And so um also, if I found myself ruminating over what had happened, I would moo at myself because cows ruminate.

00:38:51.92
Alyssa
and there’s how’s ever so just go moo and it would be my signal of like stop like stop be here like that happened you can’t change that you be right here right now and then when i found myself being like what if i came in top 10 how great would that be i’d be like stop be here right here right now that’s all you can control and that was huge of just

00:39:08.73
Chantelle
Um hmm.

00:39:14.37
Alyssa
And also, it makes it way more fun where you’re not obsessing over what happened or projecting into the future. You’re like, you’re just in it. It’s great.

00:39:22.17
Chantelle
Yeah.

00:39:22.46
Alyssa
And you can let your training do its job. And then the other piece, um, as this is what winning feels like, it was hard. I mean, that race is very, very hard. And when it got, when my body was like, whoo, we’ve, we’ve worked. It’s like, yeah, this is what winning feels like is when it’s like, do you, I mean, Courtney, after she said the Western States record, she couldn’t get on a live stream or.

00:39:51.58
Alyssa
be ah interviewed because she was puking. It’s like, yeah, it does not feel good.

00:39:54.98
Chantelle
Yeah.

00:39:57.56
Alyssa
And I think that that was so helpful. You’re like, no, nothing’s wrong. This is just hard work.

00:40:02.35
Chantelle
Yeah.

00:40:02.55
Alyssa
And so I think those two models helped. But I think the other really big change that I made is that I i put up it was kind of like I put up bumpers around myself in a way that I had never done before where I, so I, I spend,

00:40:23.77
Alyssa
maybe five minutes on Strava a week. And it’s just, it’s not something that I don’t really look at other people’s workouts. And actually right before, right when things were really not going super well, I started looking at other women Stravas and was like, Oh my God, I’m so slow. Like I’m not good. And I’ve never done that before. And that was, that was just such a red flag of like, Oh man, I am not in a good spot if I’m comparing myself.

00:40:53.70
Alyssa
And then I was looking at social media and spending a significant amount of time. And so before UTMB, I made my Strava private.

00:41:05.72
Alyssa
I didn’t go on it. um so i wasn’t So when you make your Strava private, you’re not seeing course segments and things like that. ah That gets all taken away.

00:41:14.32
Chantelle
Hmm. Mm hmm.

00:41:16.46
Alyssa
ah No one else is seeing your training. And I deleted it because I think I hid Instagram. It’s actually not even like on my home screens any still. um But I went off Instagram for almost a month.

00:41:32.89
Alyssa
And I was just like, you know what, I just, I think that it’s so easy to feel like you don’t have power in those situations, where it’s like, oh, well, there’s this app that I could look at that could tell me how to compare myself, like very obviously.

00:41:48.56
Chantelle
Hmm.

00:41:49.35
Alyssa
And so I just started doing these things like, No, I’m in complete control of this situation. Like, this is on me. And when I started making decisions and taking actions to help myself, rather than just keep hurting myself like I did after Madeira, where I just stayed on the Madeira Instagram looking at people finishing and telling myself I was a big old piece of poop,

00:42:15.54
Alyssa
like I was just actively hurting myself for no reason other than just to reinforce how much I felt I had failed.

00:42:25.93
Chantelle
Mm.

00:42:25.86
Alyssa
And there was that I was just like, no, that’s so unnecessary. And so I think one of the pieces that I would take away from like, honestly, right now, I’ll probably go back to making my Strava private, not because I’m also right now in Hawaii training for the hurt 100.

00:42:44.51
Alyssa
Not because I like I’m not one to conceal my training from other people. Like you could follow my training plan.

00:42:55.21
Alyssa
Exactly. I’m 100% fine with that.

00:42:56.56
Chantelle
Mm hmm.

00:42:57.84
Alyssa
Like everyone responds to training differently. And so by all means, take whatever you want. But I know from my personal mental place, that’s a better place for me to be where I’m not looking at like, oh, what are the crowds on this segment? Or, oh, did I hit this segment faster than I did yesterday? Or even just like,

00:43:22.80
Alyssa
the outside world being like, Oh, wow, this is like doing this section or that section.

00:43:28.15
Chantelle
Mm hmm.

00:43:28.60
Alyssa
And just the more I felt like I could keep kind of the outside chatter. um And just like, outside influence away. I feel like the better I could just be like, Yeah, I’m gonna do my job. My body knows how to do it. I’ve done the work. Great. And so those are some big changes that I made.

00:43:52.79
Chantelle
I think that’s really, really awesome. Like it’s, it’s really fun to see how things have evolved for you and what you’ve been able to learn about yourself. And you know I think more people should be doing that. I know there are definitely times I’ve had to have conversations with athletes about like getting off the apps and stop comparing. And it’s if you know sometimes whether we are aware of it or not, um these things can have a negative really negative impact on us. um So that’s a really good,

00:44:26.34
Chantelle
realization that you made for yourself and kind of like put up some boundaries which is good.

00:44:33.36
Alyssa
Yay boundaries!

00:44:33.67
Chantelle
um Gay boundaries, you know, I’m all about boundaries. um I think that shows like, you know, some aspect of maybe the unseen work, like in terms of personal change or choice that you might have made, that people may not realize from the outside could be helpful for you. Is there any other aspect in terms of unseen work that you might have also done ah for UTMB this year that we might not see from the outside, whether that’s in terms of your preparation or something that you had to sacrifice or some other um lesson that you learned that you feel contributed to your success.

00:45:18.91
Alyssa
Yeah, I think that those were pretty big ones. I mean, I think two pieces I would touch on is asking for help and not feeling, I mean, a obviously like,

00:45:31.07
Chantelle
Mm.

00:45:40.52
Alyssa
You know, give it back when you can, um but when you need help, ask for it.

00:45:42.49
Chantelle
Mm hmm.

00:45:47.19
Alyssa
And that was a huge, I think, step. And also building a team, not just relying on one individual to feed you whatever narrative that they might be, because when you have a one-on-one situation and you’re not bringing in the kind of outside voices that maybe know you well, then you only believe that one voice. And when you have a few people, a few perspectives, then you can be like, no, that’s not true, or like, that’s not helpful. But it can feel very isolating when you’re only listening to one person.

00:46:30.90
Alyssa
um And that it could be they could just be having a bad day, they could be having personal things going on. But um I found that when I was just listening to one voice, it really influenced me negatively on how I felt about myself. um And also how I was being told, I should think about myself. ah So part of it was finding people to be in my corner and also trusting them that they knew me and wanted to to help me be my best. um I think ultra running is very interesting in that I think the evolution of the, I mean, any any

00:47:17.52
Alyssa
aspect in terms of like, I don’t even, I really hate these terms, like back to the front of the pack, um, is building a team because what other sport do you know that doesn’t have a team of people behind them?

00:47:24.38
Chantelle
Mmhmm.

00:47:32.92
Alyssa
And for me, that was just, I think a huge step in the direction of like, okay, I’m going to build a team, but I’m not just going to build a team to build it. I’m going to be very intentional about the people that I let into my space and I’m going to listen also to the people who know me well and can help me do that effectively. So I think that that was I think sometimes is really independent people that asking for help is very hard and also trusting

00:48:07.86
Alyssa
that a team of people is behind you rather than just kind of an echo chamber. So I think those were really big pieces. And I think another thing is ah letting go of when things kind of went sideways. And so I had a couple of things go sideways. I took a pretty gnarly spill and kind of messed my face up a bit. um And then I got really pretty, like I was doing a three day preview of the course, and I was staying in La Zouche and I hit Chamonix. It’s about

00:48:49.44
Alyssa
um

00:48:52.98
Alyssa
Again, I know these are just five miles, four or five miles from Chamonix to La Zouche, and I hit Chamonix. I was like, wow. My stomach had been feeling great, but then I was like, oh, I’m just going to cruise back to Lezoche.

00:49:05.82
Alyssa
This will be great. It’s just a bike path. like It’s literally the easiest part of the course, so and I could barely move because I was coming down with, I think, neurovirus, and I was

00:49:16.88
Chantelle
Yeah, you were violently ill for that.

00:49:18.29
Alyssa
I was violently ill.

00:49:20.27
Chantelle
You were violently ill.

00:49:21.38
Alyssa
Like, yeah, stack stack like 100 and something miles of running with, you know, 30 something thousand feet of vert, and then getting the norovirus and you’re not feeling great.

00:49:32.82
Alyssa
I would not like to leave my apartment for about three days. So that was really bad. I was all I like lost a shit ton of weight as well, which um wasn’t ideal because you’re already kind of down for doing so much training. um But I guess the point to say, and There was part of me that was like, I am in Chamonix to train. It was like a crucial training time. And I am, I literally cannot move right now. And I think that actually the lead ups where things kind of are a bit rocky sometimes work better than the ones that are perfect. Cause when it’s perfect, you’re like, I have no excuse except to perform my absolute best. And when you have Rocky, you’re like, well, we’re going to see what happens. Like, and I think that that is another,

00:50:22.20
Alyssa
piece of, sorry, this is my coach hat coming on is like, why? Yes, the training block before the race is important, but it doesn’t, it never supersedes the amount of work you’ve put in for the last 10 years.

00:50:35.49
Chantelle
Yeah, absolutely.

00:50:35.47
Alyssa
Like you can trust that 10 years of training is going to get you pretty far versus the, you know, five weeks leading up to a race.

00:50:46.28
Chantelle
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That was not an ideal preparation. Do not recommend, um, you know, a few weeks before a race to come down with norovirus or have a gnarly fall. Um, but you rolled with it and, uh, look how it turned out. I think that’s a big part of it, right? Like trust the process, trust the work that you’ve done. Um, and I love what you said about, you know, when you’re, uh, mindful about the people that you’re surrounding yourself with.

00:51:12.58
Chantelle
um because that really matters. And, you know, when you think about where you were at mentally at the beginning of the year versus the end of the year, you made some really big changes with who you surround yourself with. And not only did you surround yourself with people who believe in you and speak to you honestly um and took a chance to be open and vulnerable and express your needs.

00:51:40.11
Chantelle
which is very hard for an independent type A sort of person. I know we have a lot of those in our audience listening today as well, but isn’t it amazing that when you do take that risk and you do open yourself up, that not only do you find yourself with great people who are around you that help boost you up in many different ways, you’ve started believing in yourself again.

00:52:03.39
Alyssa
Yeah.

00:52:03.75
Chantelle
Lo and behold, you know, and that fire, that passion, that potential was already inside of you. But it’s um it got muffled for a little while and you brought it back out. So I think that’s a really great lesson for people to take away here of you know, you know, you you have people in your good support people around you probably um don’t be afraid to speak up when you need help or when you’re struggling a little bit because you know what,

00:52:35.10
Chantelle
How many times have you thought about it? you You have a struggle, you share it with someone, and then they tell you that maybe they are struggling too. We’re all struggling with something. you know So um I think that is a great realization to take away. um And maybe as sort of a finishing point, um this may be the answer. I don’t know, Alyssa, but I’m curious. Now that the race is over, I’m curious to know what is the most unexpected lesson that you’ve taken away from this experience both in terms of running and your life journey as a whole.

00:53:13.44
Alyssa
Yeah, you know,

00:53:19.84
Alyssa
I think it’s funny to say something unexpected because it’s kind of like, oh, but I knew the answer all along in a way. And that is that as we talked about like running joyfully and with gratitude and happiness,

00:53:42.59
Alyssa
is to me the most powerful. Like I did When I was in high school and college, I dealt with some health issues and when I would run and race, because I did a little bit of cross country that did not go well.

00:54:03.35
Alyssa
ah when i and I even played lacrosse like this honestly like I would come from this place of like I’m just gonna take everyone down like I’m the baddest bitch on this field I’m number one and and I brought that like it was a win at a win at all costs Um, and I did that when I, I did crew for a year as well.

00:54:25.15
Alyssa
And I would find myself being like, I so badly want to be the best that, you know, if they got injured, like great, then that’s one less person who’s in my way, which I’m sorry.

00:54:36.20
Alyssa
It’s a really messed up mindset.

00:54:38.04
Chantelle
Yeah.

00:54:37.96
Alyssa
I’m not gonna lie though. I think everyone’s who’s yeah.

00:54:40.26
Chantelle
But you’re not alone. There are definitely people who are fueled by rage or competition.

00:54:44.97
Alyssa
Yeah and you know I think that and and also from a place of like I’m gonna prove myself and that was also because I was super sick um for a while and that place of like rage and competitiveness and proving myself is not productive for me. It just leads to A, being miserable, and B, not great outcomes.

00:55:14.66
Alyssa
And that’s what, but to be honest, my old coach was playing that. He was trying to play that button on me.

00:55:21.07
Chantelle
Hmm.

00:55:21.97
Alyssa
And, you know, for some people that might be okay. And then that’s fine. But all that button did was make me the worst version of myself.

00:55:32.35
Alyssa
And I firmly believe that running brings the best version of myself out of me. And that is a person who races with gratitude, with thanks, with smiling, with thanking the volunteers, with cheering out.

00:55:48.57
Alyssa
like I passed Abby… I can’t think of her last name. um She’s on Adidas. Abby Hall.

00:55:58.12
Chantelle
Oh my goodness, Abby Hall, yes.

00:55:59.28
Alyssa
I passed Abby Hall during UTMB and was like, you know, that seems so odd to be racing someone, but that to me was like, that was more important to her.

00:56:01.11
Chantelle
Such a sweetheart.

00:56:06.94
Chantelle
Ah.

00:56:19.76
Alyssa
knowing how much I respected her and how much she’s done for the sport, then me being like, Oh, yeah, I’m gonna I’m like crushing another woman. Like, that’s just not so yeah, that that joy and happiness, like, that’s the most important thing interests around myself by people who are like, Yeah, that’s super cool. So like, let’s keep bringing that out.

00:56:39.63
Alyssa
um

00:56:42.35
Alyssa
Yeah, so I think that’s the piece that I knew all along.

00:56:50.25
Alyssa
but I had to remind myself.

00:56:54.19
Chantelle
Yeah, that’s, that’s a really, a really good one. And like, what a sweet moment that must have been because ah Abby had such a journey herself, you know, with very bad injury, surgery, recovery, and her UTMB journey was really challenging and difficult. And she also, I feel like you have some similarities, you know, personality wise and um some really cool sort of tie ins, but she also is one that believes in running happily, supporting yourself with good people, and um lifting other people up. And I’m sure that that moment must have been really awesome for her, probably carrying her a few miles ah longer with a bit of a spring in her step too, I would hope.

00:57:41.40
Alyssa
hopeful Yeah, no, she’s awesome. She’s just done a lot for the sport. So yeah, it’s kind of it was honestly, it was like getting to meet a lot of my heroes in the sport during UTMB.

00:57:50.88
Chantelle
That’s cool.

00:57:51.43
Alyssa
Like that was really cool. Yeah.

00:57:53.42
Chantelle
Yeah, that’s cool. but I mean, you’re a hero to lots of people too. So it’s awesome to see that. I think that’s what’s really cool about a sport like ultra running.

00:58:04.28
Chantelle
because you know wherever you are as a runner, whether you are up at the front or you’re somewhere behind there, um you’re all running together. You’re all on this journey together. Some of you are taking a shorter time to get to the destination. Some people are taking a longer scenic route, but you’re all on this on the same journey. And I think that’s what’s really exciting and inspiring is that we’re all kind of in this together and we shouldn’t forget that.

00:58:32.10
Chantelle
and the people that we surround ourselves with in the community are a big part of why we do these things. And so I think it’s really great to see you at the end of this evolution where you started the year feeling very introspective, very disconnected from yourself and from your sport. You had sort of lost that joy. You weren’t in a very good place. You were cutting yourself from a lot of different things.

00:59:01.16
Chantelle
thinking that that’s what you needed to be successful. And you’ve ended the year reminding yourself of maybe what you knew all along, um that that’s not what makes you happy and that that that’s not what makes you successful. And I’m really, you know as you’re as your colleague and friend, I’m really proud of the journey that you’ve been on. And I think not only is that great for you as an athlete,

00:59:26.69
Chantelle
It’s also a really important lesson for you to take home to the athletes that you work with because sometimes we can all be a little bit too hard on ourselves. And we forget about the bigger picture of why we’re doing the thing, whatever that is, whether it’s running, whether it’s climbing, whether it’s, you know, attempting to summit a mountain. We have to remember the why because the day-to-day training and the things that we’re doing,

00:59:53.97
Chantelle
are there with us every day and that race or adventure is just a small piece of that. And so I think it’s really important that we remember or remind ourselves now and again of why we’re doing it in the first place.

01:00:10.27
Alyssa
Yeah, and I think just kind of like a funny twist to that is that that will then lead to the results you hope for.

01:00:26.16
Alyssa
And I had someone, um, I was at the running event this year and I had one of the people come up and say to me, but listen, and this has got to be like one of your best years yet. Right. Or like one of your best ever years racing. And what that like so gobsmacked me because if you had asked me in July after Quebec.

01:00:54.11
Alyssa
I would have been like, this has been one of my worst years, like hands down, one of the worst years of racing I’ve ever had. And now sitting in December from a standpoint of growth and like how much I’ve learned and where I am, I always say that like, I’m always trying to just reach the edge of my potential and that edge just keeps getting a little bit further away.

01:01:21.03
Alyssa
ah Yeah, I think it has been one of my best years and That’s really cool in in also like this This message of like don’t count yourself out like don’t count your year out in July when it’s you know bear it like a little bit over halfway through like There’s so much time for things to turn around and whether they turned around this year or not

01:01:51.10
Alyssa
Like give yourself the grace to be like, yeah, you know what? Tomorrow could be better. It’s not that it’s absolutely guaranteed because nothing is guaranteed, but tomorrow could be better. And I’m going to keep hoping that that’s the case. And I’m going to put myself in the position to make tomorrow better. And, you know, the reality is, with being a professional is like, I have to have results. Like.

01:02:17.31
Alyssa
But that’s also why a lot of contracts are multi years because companies understand like, hey, yeah, you could have a rough time and that’s okay. We’re going to keep supporting you. Um, and I think giving yourself that grace of like, okay.

01:02:35.63
Alyssa
I can’t control it, it’s exactly like in the race. I can’t control what happened back there. I can learn from it and I can move forward. But the only thing I control is right now. And I think reflecting on 24, like, man, I am so thankful for all of the pieces and gosh, I am so stoked for what’s to come. But I also feel like I’m excited about it. I don’t feel like if I don’t accomplish those things, then who am I? It’s more like, wow, how lucky I am that I get to go do what I love every day for my job. That’s so freaking cool.

01:03:21.21
Chantelle
That’s pretty awesome. I love that. And what a beautiful place maybe for us to end for today in that place of reflection. And um I hope we have been able to inspire others to think about the year that they have had um you know in sport and in life. And things definitely don’t always go the way that we want on the time scale that we expect, um especially for those who are pretty driven and have big goals.

01:03:50.54
Chantelle
um But we have to just keep putting one foot in front of the other and learning what we can because this is all just a learning experiment, right? And the learning experience as we go along. Um, Alyssa, thank you so much for sharing your insights and your stories. And I know that all these experiences have also had a really big impact on how you coach and how you guide and lead and support your athletes.

01:04:20.45
Chantelle
Um, so thanks also everyone for listening today. Alyssa, do you want to share your next race? If anyone is curious to follow the next interesting, a few hundred thousand steps on your journey.

01:04:37.90
Alyssa
Yeah, absolutely. But I think first, I just want to say a personal thank you to you because you truly I mean, listened were there like you’re so instrumentally like when I think of my team like you’re in the top three for sure of that and you you f led me to my new coach supported me through all of this have listened have been empathetic and also a voice when I needed to be told like, hey, that’s not okay by how someone else is treating you. So yeah, thank you for being in my corner so strongly. You’re so much of the reason why we’re having this conversation now. And I can say like, yeah, 24 was a fucking awesome year.

01:05:24.37
Chantelle
Awesome. You’re going to make me cry now.

01:05:26.24
Alyssa
Yeah, yeah, I’m tearing up a little bit. But yeah, so I will be racing one of my favorite races in the world the hurt 100 this year and found myself falling back into the trap of there’s only one outcome. That can happen for it to be successful. This is a great reminder and then yesterday when I was actually out in the course I was like wait, but what if I just had fun and tried hard I was like, yeah, I think I’m just gonna have fun and try hard.

01:05:45.02
Chantelle
So this is a good reminder today then.

01:05:55.53
Alyssa
So yeah, that’s my goal for hurt and um After that, going to do some ski touring, maybe some more ice climbing and gear up for round two of UTMB, some Lavaredo and hopefully Diagonal Des Fous.

01:06:10.49
Alyssa
So yeah, really take a light year.

01:06:11.56
Chantelle
boom Yeah, another leg year for Alyssa, ladies and gentlemen. Alyssa, thank you so much for sharing today and thanks for continuing to inspire us. um Thank you to our listeners and for following the Uphill Athlete podcast. ah Please rate, review, and subscribe. It’s not just one, but a community. We are Uphill Athlete