00:00:15.64
Steve
Hello and welcome to the uphill athlete podcast, where from time to time, we dive deep into the minds of today’s most inspiring authors and learn from the mountain world’s most important thought leaders. I’m your host today, Steve House. And today we have a very special guest joining us. Someone I’ve had the pleasure of working with and learning from in the past. Please welcome Luis Benitez, the author of a brand new book, Higher Ground. Luis, welcome to the show.

00:00:42.88
Luis Benitez
Thank you so much for having me, Steve. And as we were saying before we got ’em on the air, I can’t believe that we’re both sitting here getting a chance to do this. This is really special.

00:00:53.08
Steve
Yeah, yeah, it’s really cool. It’s been amazing to watch all the work you’ve been doing the last few years. So the last time we met, we were in Aspen.

00:00:58.59
Luis Benitez
Oh, the love fest is mutual.

00:01:05.00
Steve
And if I remember right, Odin Schindler, the ah VP of sustainability at Aspen ski Corp had us there and we each did a talk to a group of ah folks there and we gotta get out and go ice climbing. And that was some years ago.

00:01:19.93
Luis Benitez
That’s right.

00:01:22.57
Luis Benitez
That was probably at this point closing in on eight or nine years ago. Yeah.

00:01:28.87
Luis Benitez
Yeah. It’s amazing how people in that space want to hear from people that they define as adventurers and want to glean some sense of different modalities of leadership.

00:01:33.56
Steve
Yeah.

00:01:39.77
Luis Benitez
That was really fun. All I remember about that ice climbing day was it was really cold, super cold.

00:01:44.66
Steve
Yeah, it was super cold. Yeah, I remember that too. And I also remember being glad that it was hot and cold because the ice was, you know kind of, yeah.

00:01:53.70
Luis Benitez
Right? Kind of brittle. Yeah, that’s right.

00:01:56.69
Steve
and yeah So you know one other ah one of the things that I remember about that was in that evening you talked about your climb of Everest. I forgot which year it was. And you know I’ve heard a lot of people talk about Everest. So you know I don’t have super high expectations, nothing against you personally. But I was like, okay, like, you know, I haven’t heard your story before, but it was really good.

00:02:26.12
Luis Benitez
Yeah.

00:02:27.70
Steve
Like, and, you know, I was impressed with how you connected the things you’d learned along the way with leadership and, you know, also what you’d learned through Outward Bound and what this meant in terms of sustainability and helping to to essentially help Aspen lead in an area that was they felt very important for them to lead in. And I think that that was a really well done talk. So just a shout out for you there.

00:02:56.52
Luis Benitez
Thank you. Boy, coming from you, that’s high praise. Yeah, you know, that’s gotta be hard to do.

00:03:00.91
Steve
Well, I felt overshadowed that evening, let me tell you.

00:03:07.09
Luis Benitez
So I’ll take that compliment.

00:03:07.96
Steve
I don’t know.

00:03:09.98
Luis Benitez
You know, for me, and we’ve talked about this before, my journey on Everest for you know working on that mountain for just about a decade. You know, my first time there was with Eric Leinmayer, the blind climber. So, you know, I went to Everest into the Himalayas with a much different intention and purpose and mindset in terms of really helping Eric understand what he thought was possible and to quiet the naysayers and and prove that

00:03:27.56
Steve
Mmhmm.

00:03:37.62
Luis Benitez
You know, despite the adversity that he faced, that climbing Everest was possible. I was 28 going on, 29 years old on that expedition, and it changed the trajectory of my life. Went to work for adventure consultants, ended up globetrotting and guiding the seven summits for a decade, along with all my own personal climbing. And that’s really when I first, when you and I first met in the Big Mountains on Choe U.

00:04:03.01
Steve
here

00:04:04.00
Luis Benitez
Do you remember that?

00:04:05.38
Steve
Yeah, that was 2001.

00:04:06.32
Luis Benitez
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, that was after September.

00:04:09.21
Steve
Were you on an adventure consultant’s trip?

00:04:11.13
Luis Benitez
Yeah, no.

00:04:12.24
Steve
Was that an AC trip?

00:04:13.73
Luis Benitez
Uh, 2001, I think I was still working for, um, alpine ascents international.

00:04:18.74
Steve
Okay, yeah, that’s right.

00:04:18.86
Luis Benitez
So that was, I was still with an AI.

00:04:20.09
Steve
That’s right

00:04:21.13
Luis Benitez
Um, and you were trying, you were trying a speed ascent and I just remember watching you burn through camp one and thinking, boy, I’m getting to watch what’s next for our community and what’s next for our culture.

00:04:21.53
Steve
yeah

00:04:35.38
Luis Benitez
And for me, that’s really what it’s always been about is. Less about working with clients expedition after expedition and more about really understanding what does this ecosystem and culture and community need to some of these greater, larger global questions that I think we face.

00:04:55.81
Steve
Yeah, I love that. You know, you bring up global questions. And one thing that I think is important for our audience to know about you, because I think it’s it’s unique and it gives you a special perspective, not only the globe trotting, but you know, you’re what I would call a bicultural kid, as are my kids, having grown up between the US and Austria, and you grew up between Ecuador and the US.

00:05:15.16
Luis Benitez
Yeah, okay.

00:05:21.57
Steve
has that shaped your worldview, having come from you know growing up in these two different cultures, two different languages.

00:05:28.78
Luis Benitez
Oh, a hundred percent. And I know that you, you know, it’s such a point of joy for me to watch, you know, through social media and just talking to you how, you know, you immerse your kids in the culture that they come from. And for me, it was the same thing. I was fortunate enough to have a parent like you who made it very clear that, you know, to understand where you’re going, you need to understand where you come from. And while

00:05:58.10
Steve
Hmm.

00:05:59.28
Luis Benitez
I grew up between the United States and Ecuador. It was incredibly important to my father, who was the only one out of his family to leave Latin America for school, that I spent a significant portion of every year back in Ecuador. And I come from a ranching and farming family in Ecuador. So agriculture was a big part of growing up. and understanding how farm life and ranch life worked. But a lot of my father’s brothers, my uncles were also mountaineers um by hobby.

00:06:30.61
Luis Benitez
So a high altitude mountaineering um was sort of a natural extension of family time down there. And so for me, not only understanding the mountaineering component, but the culture and the community. you know Growing up, there weren’t a lot of Latin American climbers and alpinists um that were in you know in the limelight,

00:06:48.48
Steve
Yeah.

00:06:50.87
Luis Benitez
in the media. you know And so when you hear a lot about this question of equity now in our space, um you know do you see yourself reflected within the community? Back then, the community in Latin America was full of these incredible alpinist people that were really pushing the edge. I think Ivan Vallejo was really the first Ecuadorian to step onto the national scene, climbing all 14 8,000 meter peaks without oxygen. And I think that really changed the game for Ecuadorians stepping into that space. But you know your question about culture and community, um it has definitely shaped who I am both as a climber and as a person.

00:07:33.61
Steve
Yeah, I can imagine. I think it’s so interesting to to see how you know you’ve developed in these ways. I mean, I wanna connect back to one other important thread that I think came up through your life and maybe I’m reading something into it, but you were an outward bound and specifically a Colorado outward bound instructor for a number of years and that was a big part of you your life and you’re the way you came into guiding and bridge that mountaineering to guiding ah life.

00:08:05.53
Luis Benitez
if

00:08:09.01
Steve
Is that still the case? Am I reading into something?

00:08:10.94
Luis Benitez
Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, you’re spot on. And, you know, I think a lot of people have a limited understanding of what organizations like Outward Bound and NOLS, National Outdoor Leadership School, are.

00:08:21.61
Steve
Yeah.

00:08:23.87
Luis Benitez
I think I’m in my generation. There were a lot of American alpinists and mountaineers that came through those programs. I was lucky enough to be on the tail end of what I call the great generation of American climbers, folks like, you know, Chris Warner, Danny Jenkins, Kitty Calhoun Grissom, Pete Athens, Wally Berg. A lot of them worked for the Colorado school and well, oh, a hundred percent.

00:08:52.14
Steve
Matt Culberson, yeah, his brother.

00:08:54.74
Luis Benitez
This goes on and on and on.

00:08:56.60
Steve
Yeah, a lot of really good climbers came out of that era for sure.

00:08:57.84
Luis Benitez
Yep.

00:09:01.32
Luis Benitez
And you know, for me, looking at you know the art of guiding and sort of the culture of guiding, for me, it really started as a mountaineering instructor and as a wilderness instructor.

00:09:09.38
Steve
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:09:10.99
Luis Benitez
And I think that that’s an important distinction because when you look at programs like Outward Bound and Knowles, it’s not just about tying in and focusing on the technical aspects and safety. It really is those soft skills regarding the development of the whole human, personal development, leadership development, conflict resolution, how do you move through mountainous terrain with compassion for yourself and those around you. So there’s the technical skills, but there’s also the soft skills. And without a doubt, that really was the cornerstone of my growth and development into the guiding arena in the United States.

00:09:46.24
Steve
You know, and I think that that goes far beyond just guiding, you know, that that cornerstone, like with recruiting coaches to work for uphill athletes. I really enjoy interviewing and recruiting mountain guides because they very often have really good soft skills as we sometimes call them.

00:10:04.31
Luis Benitez
Mm

00:10:05.57
Steve
And that’s very important for coaching. A coach has to be able to connect with their athlete and be empathetic with them and communicate with them clearly and and set the goal and set the pace. A lot of the things that a mountain guide does. So it’s it’s I think that those skills have a lot of carry over into different parts of life.

00:10:24.48
Luis Benitez
100%, you know, and now that you’re in Europe, you know, you’ve moved to the place where our profession I think is understood at a higher level and it’s seen with a greater amount of respect and understanding.

00:10:32.73
Steve
Mmm. Ah, totally, yeah.

00:10:35.81
Luis Benitez
I think the United States is still coming of age of really understanding what this is and what it means. And when you try to explain to people IFMGA accreditation or the Latin American equivalent ASEIGUM accreditation. It’s years and tens of thousands of dollars and an immense amount of discipline. I think in the United States, people still see that as well. So do you run a summer camp? What exactly is it that you do?

00:11:03.16
Steve
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:03.86
Luis Benitez
It’s just not understood that there’s an art to the things that we’re talking about.

00:11:08.75
Steve
Yeah, yeah, absolutely it is. And science, and there’s a lot that goes into it.

00:11:13.37
Luis Benitez
Yes.

00:11:14.62
Steve
Yeah, I mean, it took me roughly eight years to complete my IFMJ certification. It’s a thing.

00:11:22.24
Luis Benitez
It’s a big thing.

00:11:22.24
Steve
I want to get to your book, because that’s why I wanted to have you on today. It’s just out. I’ve had the great pleasure to read it. you want For those people listening who will not have read it most likely yet, tell us a little bit about it. like What is your thesis?

00:11:39.83
Luis Benitez
Yeah, absolutely. So this is really a culmination of the thought process around the art and the science of what you and I are discussing and how it impacts our greater world. You know I’ve been lucky enough to live a couple of lifetimes within the outdoor industry and really focus on different aspects of our community our culture and our economy. And I think that’s important to talk about. In the United States alone, the outdoor recreation industry is $1.1 trillion dollars in consumer spending with a T and it is responsible for over 5 million American jobs.

00:12:21.01
Luis Benitez
So that’s a significant economic engine for the United States. And so really what the book talks about is my personal journey towards understanding

00:12:25.00
Steve
Mmhmm.

00:12:29.81
Luis Benitez
um how this newly formed political voice for this industry and this economy is evolving. And so when you think about the outdoor recreation industry writ large, you think about amazing people doing amazing things with really fun gear and really fun places. But then when you really start to boil down you know to the economics, um as a job engine, as an infrastructure engine for different parts of the world, you realize that I think we’re we’re quickly being impelled towards this place of asking the question of what what does the political voice for this economy look like? And I think that’s you know mostly what the book is about, using personal stories to kind of drive the narrative, sort of highlighting my evolution personally towards being able to ask some of these questions in really interesting ways with really amazing people.

00:13:22.70
Steve
Yeah, so you’re you’re trying to… but you know Distill the political voice or the importance of the political voice of the outdoor industry. Is that a good paraphrase?

00:13:34.37
Luis Benitez
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.

00:13:36.51
Steve
So take me through one of your formative experiences in this area. Like you said, you’ve lived several lifetimes. We’ve already talked about a couple of them, actually. We’ve talked about you know the mountaineer. We’ve talked about the hourbound instructor.

00:13:51.56
Luis Benitez
Mm-hmm Yeah

00:13:51.91
Steve
We’ve talked about the globetrotting mountain guide. and then You’ve had a few you know speakers at sustainability events in Aspen.

00:14:02.75
Luis Benitez
We all get invited into those things, don’t we? Yeah, you know for me, and you know you and I have talked at length about this, Steve, you know it was, the shift for me happened on Cho Oyu, where ironically enough is where we first met in 2006.

00:14:17.41
Steve
Yeah.

00:14:18.65
Luis Benitez
And six and you know already to that point, I was starting to feel like with respect to Everest and other parts of the Himalayas, you know this is a natural resource that belonged to the Sherpa people. And from a cultural perspective, What are we doing to help them grow their economy and their leadership, leveraging their own natural resources? And while Anshuoyu was witness to a pretty big international incident, there was a shooting involving fleeing Tibetan refugees.

00:14:52.56
Luis Benitez
I had the opportunity to speak out on when very few other people would. And naively, at the time, I thought, well, this is we’re witnessing an international incident. All of the base camps saw these escaping Tibetan refugees get gunned down on a high mountain pass. I thought naively that the industry would speak up about it collectively with one voice, that that would

00:15:17.25
Steve
Hm.

00:15:17.50
Luis Benitez
highlight the best of who we are, the best of what we represent, and um this is just how we do business. Sadly, that did not prove to be the case. There was a lot of political wrangling to protect permits and access, um a lot of calls for keeping things quiet to ensure that business as usual could go on, and that was just unacceptable to me. And so for the first time, I recognized that um The outdoor industry had this capacity to speak with a louder voice, but if we choose not to ask who we are and what we do where we kind of miss the point. So for me that journey from being

00:15:59.51
Luis Benitez
quote unquote, just a mountain guide to getting more into the policy and political arena started with that incident. I was invited into global conversations on human rights, um was invited to testify in front of the Spanish Supreme Court for crimes against humanity, leveled against China, and I was the sole witness because of my involvement in this incident.

00:16:11.74
Steve
Mmhmm.

00:16:23.37
Luis Benitez
And the entire time, Steve, I was sitting back thinking to myself, well, I’m going to do all this because I believe in it morally and ethically. But then I’m going to go back to guiding because that’s who I am. It’s what I do. It’s what I’ve always wanted to do. And I’m not a human rights expert. I’m not a policy expert. um

00:16:39.01
Steve
You’re just a mountain guide and used air quotes. I want to emphasize.

00:16:42.59
Luis Benitez
Yeah, just a mountain guide, right? But that was my internal dialogue. And I’ll tell you the special moment out of this entire thing. I ended up working for the international campaign for Tibet out of Washington DC a little bit. And through that work was invited to an audience with the Dalai Lama. I’m thinking it’s going to be a handshake, a meet and greet, a picture, and that was going to be the extent of it. But instead, it turned into a 45-minute conversation about culture and community. And I had the audacity to tell this man,

00:17:14.80
Luis Benitez
speaking up for your people has cost me work. It’s cost me friends. um it’s really disrupted my life. And he laughed.

00:17:22.73
Steve
Mm hmm.

00:17:24.26
Luis Benitez
He said, you know, Luis, I’d still like to be my people’s spiritual leader living in the Batala Palace in Lhasa, but instead, I’m a refugee with a government in exile in a different country. So in essence, he said, sorry, kid, you don’t always get what you want.

00:17:36.83
Steve
Hmm.

00:17:40.02
Luis Benitez
But what he said next really shifted my trajectory. He said, you know, sometimes you don’t choose your path. Sometimes your path chooses you. And now it’s going to be up to you to decide how you want to show up. And it was at that moment that I knew that I was no longer just a mountain guide, that I needed to lean into space and understand how to help a community and an industry that I love to evolve. And that’s really what the book is about, is the evolution of our community and our industry into the space of larger responsibility.

00:18:14.24
Steve
Yeah, I think that you know you’re articulating very, very well and much better than I have, a thesis that I’ve kind of been nurturing with an uphill athlete, which is essentially that there is this massive human potential within the mountain community at large. I mean, that’s even the basis of our conversation to say to our community members, look, here’s someone, quote unquote, just a mountain guide who’s doing some very important work.

00:18:32.94
Luis Benitez
Mm hmm.

00:18:41.81
Steve
But then when you think about it, like if you think about, I don’t know, and an astronaut that went up on to become a senator. ah Nobody says he was just an astronaut or she was just an astronaut.

00:18:53.95
Luis Benitez
Mm-hmm.

00:18:54.33
Steve
and so the reason I called that out is because I think it’s really important. You know I want to try to grant this to you, but also to our community, to to own our agency and our power and our voice.

00:19:03.63
Luis Benitez
Hmm.

00:19:10.51
Steve
and not think of ourselves as less because we are mountain professionals in many cases, or we are coaches, or we are, you know, you know frankly, most of us are just small business owners, which is arguably the backbone of America.

00:19:24.24
Luis Benitez
Mm hmm.

00:19:26.51
Steve
So, you know, and much of the world economy. So we’re not just something, we are something important.

00:19:36.08
Luis Benitez
Hundred percent well, and you know I talk about this in the book and it’s sort of us stepping into that power. And I think you know there’s a reluctance there because you know we most mountain guides, wilderness instructors, you know you lead a life of service in service to others to help others achieve the things that are important to them. And through that, you know get a special satisfaction for being a facilitator of that journey. And for me, the translation was, well, if we’re in service to clients in the United States, that can translate into public service all by itself.

00:20:15.48
Luis Benitez
And public service and government and leaning in on serving the community was really the experiment that we brought into the governor’s office way back when in Colorado to create an office for the outdoor recreation industry.

00:20:16.52
Steve
Absolutely.

00:20:30.17
Luis Benitez
And at the time, it was an experiment. Utah had an office. Colorado had an office. But I was lucky enough to have a boss and then governor, now Senator John Hickenlooper, to say, go out there and talk to other governors, convince them to create this office. And if their state’s economy, if more than 10% of a state’s economy is based on outdoor recreation, then they should have this office too. And just a couple of weeks ago, the 21st state just announced the creation of the office.

00:21:00.67
Luis Benitez
So it went from two states in the US having this office to now 21 states in the US having this office. And all the directors get together. And the directors are a kaleidoscope of former mountain guides, river guides, wilderness instructors, tourism experts. These are people that have come up through our ranks and are helping to define and shape that political and policy narrative in the US.

00:21:20.23
Steve
Mm-hmm.

00:21:27.16
Steve
Yeah, that’s incredible. And so you know give me just just for our audience that doesn’t know your story, I think it’s worth stepping back in time and just explaining how this came to be with The Office. and and um Yeah.

00:21:40.83
Luis Benitez
Yeah. It’s a good story. It’s a great question.

00:21:44.25
Steve
Mm-hmm.

00:21:44.36
Luis Benitez
And, you know, I like to tell people this is where, you know, the strange stuff comes in through social media. So I had stepped away from full-time guiding. I was actually working in the ski industry for a large ski company in the United States and Colorado on leadership development and talent development, helping them, you know, sort of bring their mid-level and senior level executives up through the ranks with some of those soft skills that we’ve talked about. So I had found a way to translate some of those skill sets into a different segment of the industry.

00:22:12.60
Steve
Mmhmm.

00:22:17.77
Luis Benitez
But at the same time, in the community I was living in Colorado, an eagle, a little 7,500 person bedroom community for ski mountains in Colorado, I just started to grow dissatisfied with what I was seeing in terms of town management. Our mountain biking trails were falling apart. Our river corridor wasn’t being utilized. Businesses on Main Street were hurting. We were just kind of seen as a bedroom community for the big fancy ski mountains up the road. And there was a seat that opened up on town council and I was encouraged by friends to run. And so first time running for public office,

00:22:54.13
Luis Benitez
I ran on a campaign of how to leverage the outdoor industry to make our town better. um and lucky or unlucky enough, got elected and really went to work um highlighting the different pieces of things that I think we could invest in, things that we could build upon that would have a greater return for our community’s economy.

00:23:03.71
Steve
Thank you.

00:23:16.59
Luis Benitez
A lot of those things got visible attention and fell on the desk of the governor as they were starting to think about creating this outdoor industry office. And as these things often do, um because some of the work that I had been doing got the governor’s attention, he sort of reached out to his cabinet and said, does anybody know this guy down in Eagle that’s doing all this work in the outdoor industry? i’ I’ve heard about him, I’d like to talk to him. And the woman that was running the Office of Economic Development and International Trade for him used to be the general counsel of the ski company that I was working for. So she said, I know him. Let me drop him a note. So I literally got an instant message on Facebook.

00:24:03.36
Luis Benitez
um Hey, Luis, how are you doing? Great. How are you? Hey, listen, the governor’s got this crazy idea that he’d like to talk to you about. Would you be interested in coming down to the Capitol and having a conversation? So it was very innocuous, kind of low key. I didn’t really think much of it. I thought it was a great opportunity to catch up with a friend, meet the governor. Wouldn’t it be fun?

00:24:28.69
Steve
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:30.03
Luis Benitez
And boy, if you know anything about John Hickenlooper, when he has his sights set on a person and a process, he is relentless. I walked out of the meeting in his office um not knowing what hit me because he said, I want to do the Outdoor Recreation Industry Office. The only way I’m going to do it is if you’re the first director, would you be interested in coming down and helping? Now, never met me.

00:24:53.23
Steve
And he did this site and like so let’s say sight unseen. He’d never met you before. like that’s As a leader, that’s unusual, right? Like you know usually leaders want to get to know a person a little bit more.

00:25:00.72
Luis Benitez
Yeah. Yep.

00:25:06.00
Steve
and he was like had it? Did he have a tail on you for the last few months or something?

00:25:08.99
Luis Benitez
That’s exactly right.

00:25:10.63
Steve
yeah

00:25:10.87
Luis Benitez
What he did and what he does very well is ask his larger coalition and his trusted advisors the question. Do you know this person? Have you heard about this person?

00:25:21.12
Steve
Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:21.59
Luis Benitez
Give me all the details you possibly can on who he is and what he does. So by the time I walked into that office, he had a very clear sense of what he wanted out of me and how he thought it would work.

00:25:32.78
Steve
Okay.

00:25:34.54
Luis Benitez
um I obviously did not have that benefit. um And as I drove back up to Eagle, you know you know, you and I have been lucky enough to shape our lives, to to live in places and and be parts of communities that we where we want to be. And at the time, I was married, newly married. My wife was pregnant with our first, our daughter. And I remember going home and saying, you know, we’ve worked really hard to shape this incredible life in a mountain community that we love. We get to do all the things we want to do and earn enough money.

00:26:11.08
Luis Benitez
And now I’m being asked to quit all those jobs, to take a pay cut, to move closer to a city, which I swore I would never do, to work in government. which didn’t you know that landscape was other than the work I had been doing on policy for the international campaign for Tibet, was a new thing for me.

00:26:34.35
Luis Benitez
And my wife said, and by the way, I’m pregnant, I’m going to have to quit my job as well. Do you think all of that sacrifice is worth it for this? And there was just something about it that really spoke to the possibility of everything I had been thinking and feeling up to that point. and So we jumped.

00:26:54.75
Steve
Amazing. What a story. And so, yeah, I mean, it doesn’t, you know, with the baby, with the pregnancy, it doesn’t really get a whole lot more dramatic than that. So, you know, fast forward to us.

00:27:08.37
Luis Benitez
Nope.

00:27:09.93
Steve
You’re, what, a couple months later, you’re at the Colorado State Capitol, putting on a shirt and tie and trying to be the second director of a state outdoor recreation office.

00:27:15.29
Luis Benitez
Yeah. So, I mean it.

00:27:24.71
Luis Benitez
Yep. Yep. Well, so the first one for Colorado and, you know, obviously the director in Utah and I would talk frequently, how do you do this? What do you do? Where do you even start? Because this had no road map.

00:27:34.65
Steve
What was the job description? How well, okay.

00:27:36.50
Luis Benitez
There wasn’t one. There was nothing on paper.

00:27:38.24
Steve
So the first job was to write your job description.

00:27:40.98
Luis Benitez
Basically what the governor said was, have fun, don’t make anything worse, and keep me posted. And you know for me, being a lifelong recreationist in Colorado, You know, I knew all the pockets and all the communities that I wanted to talk to. What’s going well? What isn’t going well? What would you do to make it better? The first idea that I had to really formulate and shape my thinking was to just go on a road trip, literally pack all the toys, go on a road trip around the state and start talking to all the communities that are driven by these different modalities of recreation.

00:28:12.15
Steve
Yep.

00:28:19.87
Luis Benitez
and rely on them for the economics and the economy of their communities. And that was a three-month stint pretty much on the road, i’m going home to you know visit, move houses, sell houses, get my wife settled in, you know obviously try to spend as much time as possible with my you know growing pregnant wife, um but you know she really understood the importance and the value that this could possibly have if we got this right.

00:28:44.63
Steve
Yeah.

00:28:51.15
Luis Benitez
And you know what came out of that road trip was really what created the idea of what the office can and should be focusing on. And so we came up with four distinct lanes of work. So economic development, which is obvious, Conservation and stewardship, because you know the outdoor industry trades on national natural resources. And so without the correct protection, promotion, and utilization of those natural resources, that infrastructure starts to collapse.

00:29:20.77
Steve
Mmhmm.

00:29:20.96
Luis Benitez
The third one was education and workforce training. I was a big believer in just knowing how hard it is for American guides and people in the outdoor industry to kind of hack their education, that there needed to be more workforce development opportunities. For people in our space. And then the last lane was public health. um We all knew anecdotally that time outside was good for you, but I wanted to codify it. I wanted the Department of Health to say, um not only do we believe in this, but we’re gonna ensure we invest in green spaces across the state to ensure that citizens have access to time outside.

00:29:56.90
Steve
You know, and so yeah you had all that figured out after 90 days.

00:30:03.22
Luis Benitez
Well, I had a rough idea in a journal that I slowly started to fill out. um and And I think the other thing that I got from that road trip was starting to build a team of advisors and truly a team of rivals because, yeah, well, if you’re outdoors for all, right?

00:30:08.87
Steve
Okay.

00:30:17.23
Steve
Network.

00:30:21.00
Luis Benitez
I also know that dirt biking, um moto biking is really big in Colorado. And so having somebody representative on that advisory group from every modality of recreation to really talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly and the intersectionality with the other segments of the industry was incredibly important to really flush out the rough sketch that I just described.

00:30:45.26
Steve
Yeah, you’ve got like foot born, you’ve got equestrian, you’ve got mountain bags, you’ve got

00:30:48.59
Luis Benitez
Yep.

00:30:51.02
Steve
dirt bikes, you’ve got quads, snowmobiles, all of it.

00:30:53.30
Luis Benitez
all of it, all of it, yeah.

00:30:55.80
Steve
Hunting, fishing, yeah, all of it.

00:30:58.34
Luis Benitez
You know, every modality, you know, I had skiing on, you know, a couple of athlete friends and then the snowboarders showed up and said, well, now wait a minute, we’re different and we’ve got our own gear and our own culture in our own lane.

00:31:03.02
Steve
Sure. All right.

00:31:11.85
Luis Benitez
So, you know, through that process, really understanding what we, I didn’t understand at the time, but I do now is that we were building a roadmap to help other states who created this office. understand sort of what’s step one, two, three, and four. And as other states called with interest, started talking to other governors, whether it was a Republican state or a Democratic state-led state, we offered that up freely.

00:31:39.15
Steve
And so what was that tenure like? So you were there for how long?

00:31:43.23
Luis Benitez
So I was there in the second term for Governor Hickenlooper, which was four years and then I transitioned to the new governor, Governor Polis. So I was in the chair for about five years until VF Corporation came calling and asked me to jump the fence back over to the private sector. but

00:32:04.52
Steve
So before we get to VF Corp, you know, what do you feel, looking back, what do you feel that you accomplished? What are you most proud of accomplishing in those five years?

00:32:20.40
Luis Benitez
you know that I can point to one thing. um you know Those four lanes of work that I described to you, I recognize that if states were sort of left up to their own devices as they created this office, it could be this just really awful patchwork of goals and priorities driven by the whims of a governor.

00:32:41.52
Steve
Hmm.

00:32:41.66
Luis Benitez
And while a little presumptuous, I knew that I didn’t want that to happen to these offices. So what we did was actually codified those four lanes of work, economic development, conservation and stewardship, education and workforce development and public health into the industry’s kind of very own constitution, kind of rules of the road, basically saying to other governors and other directors, Well, it’s fantastic that you created the office, and that’s wonderful that you hired a director, um but now we’re asking you to become a signatory to what we call the the confluence accords.

00:33:20.45
Luis Benitez
Which basically says that if you have this office you agree to work in those four lanes and I’m incredibly proud of the fact that Usually when you see a state create the office the very next thing that happens is that office becoming a signatory to the Accords and that was drafted and created out of our office in Colorado Mm

00:33:42.72
Steve
That’s amazing, so you know you got all the ships pointed in the same direction.

00:33:47.78
Steve
Yeah, I mean, that’s ah that’s a big thing, right? Like, I mean, when you’re moving big organizations, getting them started in the right direction with that kind of diversity of interests and just humans is, is yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. I am not intimately familiar with this space by any means, like but it seems very right on to be trying to set the right direction, at least the same direction, and to say these if this is how we’re going to work, these is these are our KPIs, this is what we’re going to measure, and this is what this is what we’re going to work towards.

00:34:19.46
Luis Benitez
Yeah.

00:34:22.64
Luis Benitez
100%. And it’s a coalition of the willing, right? So anybody can look up the accords. If you go to confluence states dot.com, you’ll find the accords, the states that are signatories. And so we really wanted to make this public, um but also as political gravity started to build and momentum started to build, to leave room to be able to ask larger questions of, should we now be thinking about creating a federal office of outdoor recreation industry in Washington, DC?

00:34:55.35
Luis Benitez
Which is one of the things I’m still working on to this day Hmm

00:34:59.93
Steve
Okay. So before we get to that, I want to hear about VF Corp and how that went down. And I remember seeing that news and yeah.

00:35:10.50
Luis Benitez
Yeah Well, you know, I think it’s it’s a byproduct of the job that I just described so obviously one of the goals for that job for the state was economic development and at the time I

00:35:22.45
Steve
Well, first of all, what year was it? I think that’s important, it was

00:35:25.10
Luis Benitez
Oh boy, what year was that? So it was five years ago. So 2019,

00:35:30.08
Steve
Mm hmm. Yeah. So pre COVID or no.

00:35:31.89
Luis Benitez
Yeah, pre-COVID.

00:35:35.16
Steve
Yeah. 2018.

00:35:36.94
Luis Benitez
Yeah, um before COVID. And so really the conversation was with VF whose headquarters was in North Carolina. They owned 13 outdoor industry brands like the North Face and Smart Will, Icebreaker, Timberland, Vans, Dickies. I mean, the list goes on and on. But the headquarters for all those brands were scattered across the country. The headquarters was in North Carolina. And through my work for the governor’s office, I had gotten to know I’m the CEO of VF a little bit, who ironically enough came from the North Face at a time.

00:36:14.28
Luis Benitez
When, you know, you remember this when we have to beg, borrow and steal free gear for expeditions. And our then CEO Steve Rendell was the person that would hire the people that would give the athletes their equipment quota. And so we were able to have a really fun conversation about, you know, look at you now doing this work and really talking to him about consolidating all the brands and moving the headquarters and all the brands to Denver.

00:36:45.42
Luis Benitez
So the conversation with VF really started in the lane of you know looking through how to make the economic side of the industry better in Colorado, but to also grow, can again, continue to grow that political voice. So that move ended up happening. Steve ended up moving VF and the majority of the brands under one roof in Denver, and I was still working in the outdoor industry office at the time. And then, you know, I just said very innocently.

00:37:17.43
Luis Benitez
So Steve, when the move’s done, who do I talk to about, you know, policy work, government affairs, stuff that I think you all should lean in on with respect to what the industry is doing?

00:37:29.06
Steve
Yeah.

00:37:29.47
Luis Benitez
He said, you know,

00:37:29.70
Steve
Yeah. You’re in my backyard now. We need to know who’s my contact.

00:37:31.49
Luis Benitez
Yeah, you’re in my backyard now, so who’s my contact?

00:37:33.81
Steve
Yeah.

00:37:34.52
Luis Benitez
Super innocent question. He said, you know, Luis, we really don’t have a sophisticated government affairs function right now.

00:37:36.77
Steve
Yeah.

00:37:43.37
Luis Benitez
And I said, Steve, if you’re a Fortune 500 company. How is that possible? And, you know, there’s the usual we rely on consulting groups and agencies to help us drive that work. I said, OK, well, how about your philanthropic efforts and where do you define impact? What does philanthropy look like for the brands and for VF? Because as one of the largest holding companies in the space in the United States, you know and one could argue globally, there’s a bit of a responsibility there to to give back, not just through free gear, but I’m making the world and our industry and our ecosystem better.

00:38:24.04
Luis Benitez
He said, yeah, you know, our philanthropic pieces could also use a little bit of help. And I should have seen the writing on the wall because literally within the next month and a half, um the formal question came across my desk, would you like to come over and help us build a government affairs function globally for VF and retool the foundation and get it up and running? And so that was too good of an opportunity to pass up.

00:38:52.57
Steve
Yeah, I’m sure. Yeah. And then, you know, in this case, they had a job description for you. I mean, you’d maybe help plant the seed.

00:39:03.74
Luis Benitez
I think this happens to a lot of people here. This is now the this would have been the third job that I got that was just a back of a napkin idea that really didn’t have a shape, that had sort of a concept that part of my job was to help figure it out, to get in and figure it out.

00:39:17.62
Steve
Mm-hmm.

00:39:27.04
Steve
Yeah.

00:39:27.77
Luis Benitez
I mean, it’s like the best metaphor for route finding you would ever wanna you know leverage, have a rough idea of direction of travel, have a clear sense that I think I’ve got the skill set to figure out we where to go and how to get there.

00:39:35.58
Steve
Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:43.38
Luis Benitez
But I have no idea what I’m going to run into along the way. And that’s pretty much how it went down.

00:39:49.04
Steve
Well, again, transferability of skills.

00:39:53.17
Luis Benitez
Yeah, 100%.

00:39:54.02
Steve
Take a napkin with some arcane symbols sketched on it and find my way up a big granite face with that.

00:40:02.12
Luis Benitez
I mean, how many times have we done that, right? And so you know at this point in my life, and I’m sure it is for you as well, you start to get reflective of how not only these skill sets transfer, but how am I imparting these skills to my daughter, um to the world around me?

00:40:04.91
Steve
Right.

00:40:17.89
Steve
100%.

00:40:20.38
Luis Benitez
And what does that mean in the context of ensuring that these things are, are these skill sets transferred to who comes next?

00:40:27.16
Steve
Yeah. Yeah. And it isn’t interesting that we continue to go through this cycle of learning, practicing, and teaching.

00:40:38.22
Luis Benitez
Hmm.

00:40:39.06
Steve
just like you did as an outward-bound instructor.

00:40:40.22
Luis Benitez
Mm hmm.

00:40:41.27
Steve
But as soon as you acquire a new skill and you’ve mastered it, then you’re immediately thinking about passing it on and teaching it to someone. And I see that with my kids too, like you know and things I learn as an entrepreneur running a small business. help whether it’s through reading a book or coaching or listening to a podcast or something. And then I’m immediately like, okay, yeah, this is a really cool skill or it’s a really great way to you know relate to people or like, how can I help my boys adapt this? And I also am much more aware and you know I live in a mountain valley in Austria. So you know there’s a lot of great things about living here, but there’s also, you know how do I say this without getting myself in trouble?

00:41:25.89
Steve
There can be, people can sometimes have a hard time seeing other perspectives.

00:41:30.18
Luis Benitez
Mm-hmm

00:41:30.54
Steve
And you know and my kids are growing up in this, right? So I’m acutely aware that I don’t want my children to not be able to see other people’s perspectives. like That’s a big deal to me. I want to make sure that they can do that.

00:41:42.80
Luis Benitez
100

00:41:44.27
Steve
And I can see that most people, and you know you immediately pick up on those things where if I was 24 years old living here, I wouldn’t have noticed that so much. But now, as you get older and wiser, you see these things.

00:41:52.40
Luis Benitez
one hundred Well, 100%. And you know as this dialogue, I think globally about equitable access to the outdoors starts to happen. I mean, you’re seeing it on Everest with the growth of Nepali and Sherpa run guiding agencies where Western and European companies are taking a backseat quicker and quicker. um you know the question of equity

00:42:14.06
Steve
And they’ve only got a few more years left.

00:42:17.24
Luis Benitez
Yeah, the question of equity is really everywhere within our space.

00:42:22.97
Luis Benitez
And I think at the end of the day, these conversations about different perspectives being really holistic about what we’re thinking and what we’re doing in this space and in this industry. It’s something else that I talk about in the book. It’s really us coming of age. It’s us coming of age and growing our self-awareness around.

00:42:41.83
Steve
Mm-hmm.

00:42:44.69
Luis Benitez
There is a responsibility to these things, um not just for the actual craft of the trade, but also of the larger voice of what we’re responsible for. And carrying that responsibility requires a certain amount of gravity and and voice. And without it, I think the days of just saying, hey, you know what? I’m getting back to the air quotes that you talked about. I’m just a guide. This doesn’t affect me. Or I know I’m just a small business owner.

00:43:16.78
Luis Benitez
this you know I watch what happens, but this is up this is for somebody else to take care of. That’s not the case anymore.

00:43:25.16
Steve
Accountability.

00:43:26.15
Luis Benitez
Yeah.

00:43:27.45
Steve
Yeah. Yeah. Accountability and responsibility are intimately linked. And I think that’s something that, you know, I think I have struggled with myself and, you know, I, as a, you know, I had sort of a Peter Pan life for a long time, right? Like I was a professional climber, you know, first I was a mountain guide, then I was a professional climber. I mean, you know, life was pretty easy, you know, in a lot of ways.

00:43:53.33
Luis Benitez
Yeah?

00:43:54.10
Steve
I mean, not climbing notwithstanding, but that…

00:43:54.59
Luis Benitez
Yeah.

00:43:59.66
Steve
That does almost lead to this like, oh, yeah, other people are taking care of those other things. All I have to do is eat, sleep, and train. And that’s fun for a while. And then you reach an age where you’re like, well, actually, like other people are taking care of these things that actually I rely on.

00:44:13.00
Luis Benitez
Mm-hmm.

00:44:15.06
Steve
And I rely on this state park to climb in, or I rely on this economy to support me, this you know outdoor industry economy to support. to support me. So I think that stuff starts to dawn on you. So then you’re at VF and you get to help build this out off the back of the napkin. And how long does that, where does that take you?

00:44:42.91
Luis Benitez
I mean, that you know I jokingly tell people all the time, um working on that globally during the pandemic um really led me to the point that it was time to write this book and that it was time to really talk about, um you know I say this somewhat flippantly, but also seriously, you know when you’re working on um fair labor laws in Bangladesh for the workers that build the sexy puffy jacket that most people in mountain cultures and communities enjoy wearing and buying. And you understand the entire ecosystem that product comes through.

00:45:28.79
Steve
the life cycle.

00:45:28.99
Luis Benitez
and the life cycle, the communities that it impacts, the people that it affects. I really understood that some of the questions that have been rattling it around in my head for decades were global. They weren’t just local. and that this responsibility that we’re talking about that is often, to your point earlier, taken care of through trade associations or maybe there’s a lobbying group or if I pay my dues to this NGO, then we get to go fight for this piece of legislation or this activation. um It’s still a very fractured ecosystem and that to truly be the most effective that we can possibly be, both in the United States and beyond,

00:46:08.97
Luis Benitez
We have to start speaking with one voice and figuring out how to speak with one voice. So, you know, I’m incredibly proud of the work that we did together at VF. You know, their foundation is doing a lot of really good work around the world. And their government affairs shop focuses on policies from circularity to workers rights in far flung port corners of the globe. um And so it was an incredible learning experience for me running global teams focused in the in these spaces, um but also validated the fact that someone needs to talk about these things in a holistic way to help people understand that we are capable of so much more than we’re doing right now um to speaking up about all these things.

00:46:39.41
Steve
I bet.

00:46:54.91
Steve
Having written a few books myself, the process for me has always been

00:47:02.72
Steve
more of what I think of as pregnancy. It’s like, I just had this you just have this thing in you that you have to get out.

00:47:05.92
Luis Benitez
ah

00:47:10.85
Steve
And is that your experience as well?

00:47:12.98
Luis Benitez
Yes, yes. Well, it’s so funny you say that because I just had conversations with some friends. the other day um that my wife was involved in. And I didn’t hear about her comments until I walked away. I was telling friends exactly what I told you. Yeah, in the middle of working for VF, I thought about this. This was kind of, you know, it validated I need to go to work on this. I found a writing partner and a publisher that was willing to buy the crazy idea. and um went to work and it took about three years. And I walked away and apparently my wife said, he’s been thinking about this for 15 years. This is not a three-year process. This is something that’s been percolating in journals and notes and emails and letters and all these different pieces that you sort of cobble together. And I know for you, you know when I first read uphill athlete and started focusing on using that as a piece of my own um training cycles,

00:48:08.56
Luis Benitez
I saw all your personal narratives and stories, how you shaped the science around some of that. And I knew that it needed, you know when in the middle of my own project, I knew it needed to be the same for me. that And to make sure this wasn’t a nerdy policy wonky book just talking about who we were and what we could do, I needed to also share my own personal evolution through these spaces to help people understand that

00:48:23.01
Steve
Mm-hm.

00:48:34.34
Luis Benitez
you know, someone that did not have a focus in this space that never thought in a million years they would end up here, um you know, you can too if you understand the importance of the urgency around it.

00:48:46.64
Steve
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s a really important message for the younger people in our industry. Because when I was in my, I was talking about this recently with another guest whom we both know, Conrad Anker.

00:48:59.39
Luis Benitez
Yeah.

00:48:59.99
Steve
And we were reflecting upon how, you know, he and Alex and Greg Child and at that time Kitty Calhoun and Lynn Hill were like the first generation of Americans that were sponsored in any way as climbers in the you know sort of mid and mid and late 90s and you know for me at that time you know I’m just

00:49:13.75
Luis Benitez
here

00:49:19.67
Luis Benitez
Mm hmm.

00:49:24.37
Steve
I think I’m like 11 years younger than Conrad, so not a huge difference. and there is no blueprint. Like Conrad’s the first one to really move through that whole life cycle.

00:49:33.53
Luis Benitez
Mm hmm.

00:49:35.45
Steve
I mean, I wouldn’t call him retired by any means, but to sort of have gone through the whole life cycle of an outdoor athlete as a professional and reach the end of, you know, the last stage of his career. And you know, if you had told me that there was a pathway like that when I was 25, I would have just, I would not have believed you.

00:49:55.23
Luis Benitez
A hundred percent.

00:49:55.29
Steve
One, and two, I would have been like, how do I do that? Because that’s what I want to do. I mean, it worked out. I may ah manage ah like you know I think we managed to find these ways to do these things that we were really passionate about. But I think that it’s really interesting how you went through this cycle. So you had all these, you bought this book, I was gesturing through your letters and notes. And then you have just now given birth to it.

00:50:28.10
Steve
is it Has it, how, when did it actually come off the presses?

00:50:32.32
Luis Benitez
Boy, what let’s see here.

00:50:32.52
Steve
It’s, we’re talking on June 12th, 2024.

00:50:34.89
Luis Benitez
Yup. May 28th, so this is still a very, very new thing.

00:50:39.95
Steve
Okay, yeah, just a few weeks.

00:50:40.49
Luis Benitez
um And probably like you felt as well, and I’m dying to hear your perspective on this, it’s a little vulnerable, right? Because it’s, well, a lot of the stuff in there is based on work and science and a lot of the pieces that, you know, the functionality of how do you grow the political voice for the outdoor industry is do we need a seat at the table in Washington, DC? Do we need to be present in other parts around the world? What drives that narrative is personal stories. And that’s the vulnerable part because you end up talking about things.

00:51:09.35
Steve
hundred percent

00:51:12.14
Luis Benitez
I’ve already heard from friends um and folks that got an advanced copy that, you know, I knew pieces of this, Luis, but I had no idea that dot, dot, dot.

00:51:21.95
Steve
Yeah.

00:51:22.04
Luis Benitez
So that’s a bit of the nerve wracking part.

00:51:22.81
Steve
Yeah. And that’s why I don’t want to give things away. And that’s why I want people to read the book for themselves because that is not only the vulnerable part, but it’s the strong part. You know, the science or the examples, the things you’ve lived and observed, those are easy. Those happen. That’s more of a journalistic exercise. But the glue that holds it together is the humanity of it. And what you went through to piece all of those facts together to come to a certain thesis and conclusion. And, you know, I think that if I can offer you anything and I don’t know

00:52:03.57
Luis Benitez
Hmm.

00:52:03.60
Steve
if I can, but it would just be to lean into the vulnerability as much as you can and more than you want to, because that’s what people connect to.

00:52:04.39
Luis Benitez
Hmm.

00:52:12.54
Luis Benitez
Yeah.

00:52:12.64
Steve
And that’s going to be your true strength, actually.

00:52:15.36
Luis Benitez
Yeah.

00:52:15.85
Steve
And I know you’re, I know you’re strong enough to do that. I’ve seen you do this a million times. It’s actually one of your, I would argue, best qualities and greatest strengths as a human. And that’s… That’s just, it’s the glue, it’s the headline, it’s what people remember. People don’t remember facts, people remember how they felt.

00:52:43.05
Luis Benitez
Yeah, yeah.

00:52:43.14
Steve
You know, they’re not gonna remember the words you say when they hear you talk about your book, but they’re gonna remember how they felt when they left the room after they heard you speak. after they heard you speak

00:52:51.04
Luis Benitez
Yeah, you know, it’s funny because you mentioned the episode with Conrad because I definitely, you know, that that spoke to me and I just saw him and I told him about, there’s this book called The Making of a Modern Elder. and which is a bizarre word in our arena, right? Because when you and I think of elders, you know you know, Conrad is somewhat in that space.

00:53:12.81
Steve
Right.

00:53:17.95
Luis Benitez
But to your point, you know, being an elder sort of connotes you coming with knowledge in a roadmap. And when there isn’t one, and we’re still of the generation or close to the generation of, you know, we’re figuring this out. You know, Steve, I had this conversation with someone who had, has college-age kids who want to be a part of the industry, but it’s very important to their mom and dad that they sort of understand how to find that formal education through this process. And through our work within academia, at least here in Colorado and now I would argue all over the US, you now have um and MBAs, you now have business schools focused on the outdoor recreation industry. You have masters

00:54:02.47
Luis Benitez
focus on the economy of the outdoor industry. And so for the first time, that college age kid, that university age person who wants a career in this industry can now continue their education as opposed to needing to cobble it together like you and I have had to do and like definitely Conrad has had to do.

00:54:21.70
Steve
Mhm.

00:54:21.74
Luis Benitez
um and have more opportunities with informal education and otherwise to be able to put it together. So the awkward conversation I had with my parents that I was actually going to go to Colorado, be coming out with that instructor, start focusing on my guiding courses and doing that as opposed to

00:54:33.99
Steve
Right?

00:54:39.61
Luis Benitez
the options, now young folks have more options. And I think it’s because of the work, like Conrad, like yourself, like others leading the way. I mean, I literally just had a conversation with a woman, a young woman at University of Colorado, Boulder, who wants to become a sports kinesiologist, referenced your book. I mentioned I was coming on the podcast and she just about fell over, right? So there’s there are all these different levels of inspiration out there that

00:55:04.02
Steve
Yeah. Yeah.

00:55:07.85
Luis Benitez
That’s the best that we can do, right? I think, you know, you and I would both agree it’s a miracle that we’re even here and alive um based on the things we’ve been through and we’ve done.

00:55:10.02
Steve
Yeah. Yeah.

00:55:15.37
Steve
Absolutely.

00:55:17.23
Luis Benitez
And I think the greatest gift that we can offer is just that, our voice, our hope, um our intention, and to truly understand that there is no finish line in this dialogue.

00:55:24.18
Steve
Hmm. Yeah, yeah. Because it’s an evolution, it’s gonna continue to evolve and our voices are just, or you know in this case, your voice is leading this discussion for a time and then it will be someone else’s time.

00:55:43.30
Luis Benitez
Mm. Mm-hmm.

00:55:47.04
Steve
So now that you’ve written a book, what would be one word of advice you’d give to someone thinking of writing a book or to another aspiring author?

00:55:57.08
Luis Benitez
I mean, you know for me, I don’t know if you feel this way about you knowing the people that you’ve partnered with, writing partners. you know find a friend who believes what you believe and is a better writer than you are. For me, that was Frederick Reimers, a 20 year old friend. We worked together at Outward Bound in our 20s. He became this amazing journalist as I sort of walked the earth and went on about doing what I was doing. um But because he knew me and had such an intimate knowledge of who I was and how I had grown up, um really understood how to shape my voice.

00:56:28.50
Luis Benitez
And to your point about vulnerability, I credit him with pulling a lot of that out of me.

00:56:34.91
Steve
Well, we can thank him for that.

00:56:35.04
Luis Benitez
um If it would have been Oh, yeah, if it would have been just me, I never would have gone as deep, um never would have been as vulnerable without his help. And so my one piece of advice would be, you know, find the people that wholeheartedly believe what you believe and what you’re trying to bring into the world, because there will be moments when you just want to ball the whole thing up and set it on fire and go do something else. um And so you need to have those partners around you and with you I’m on that journey.

00:57:03.74
Steve
Yeah. A hundred percent. I couldn’t agree more. And you will ball it up and set it on fire and go do something else and then come back like somewhere between 12 hours and 12 months or 12 years later. Like, you know, and that’s part of the process too. um Yeah.

00:57:20.03
Luis Benitez
Yeah, yeah, I’m sure you had existential moments where you ask yourself, I have no idea where this is going and I just gotta walk away for a little while.

00:57:26.89
Steve
Yeah, absolutely. And you know if I look back at it, you know I kept a box of all the outlines and drafts of my first book, Beyond the Mountain. It’s ah it’s a huge box. And if I look at it sometimes I look at the first outline of that, not because I’m nostalgic, but because just to remind myself of what the starting point looked like and how bad, frankly, it was. And then it turned into something I was proud of. you know but

00:57:56.54
Luis Benitez
Yeah.

00:57:57.14
Steve
You know, and so it is, we have to get over this fear of, you know, not being good when we start because we’re going to be bad when we start and we’re going to be good when we finish.

00:58:05.61
Luis Benitez
Yeah.

00:58:06.60
Steve
And that’s just the way this works.

00:58:09.69
Luis Benitez
A hundred percent. And I think it’s also the magic of our community. You know, Matt Sammet, who was another climber, also an editor, was my editor for the book.

00:58:16.70
Steve
Yeah.

00:58:17.88
Luis Benitez
Like, it took a village, right?

00:58:19.02
Steve
Matt’s an amazing editor. I love Matt’s writing.

00:58:21.36
Luis Benitez
He’s an amazing editor, and I was lucky to have him.

00:58:23.18
Steve
He’s ah he’s edited some of my work too. He’s edited some work for uphill athletes, for the podcast and, or sorry, for the website, for blog posts.

00:58:25.47
Luis Benitez
Yeah.

00:58:31.79
Steve
And he’s just a super, super talented editor.

00:58:34.88
Luis Benitez
Yeah, so I benefited from our community and our culture, um sort of hearing my concept and saying, you know what, this is a story that we need this, not just for us, but for other people to understand why this is so important. And when we were considering the subtitle for the book, um there were a lot of very practical, very sort of middle of the road ideas, but everybody said it should be how the outdoor recreation industry can save the world. That’s a really bold, big thing to say out loud and to put on a book. um But to a person, everybody feels that you know if you don’t set that larger intention and goal, um then you’re missing the opportunity.

00:59:19.37
Steve
Yeah, and if not us, who?

00:59:21.12
Luis Benitez
Exactly.

00:59:23.54
Steve
So where can people find higher ground and how can they connect with you? And perhaps see you speaking at one of your book events or listen to you speaking more about these subjects.

00:59:36.08
Luis Benitez
Yeah, thank you. So, highergroundbook.com. Super easy. It’s got all the information, links to buy the book in whatever form that you get it in, and we’re trying to put up speaking opportunities and events on that website as well. so While all these pieces are very new, the work is not. So hopefully, you know my biggest ask is if you find a way to continue this conversation in your own community, um lean in because this truly is what comes next for us.

01:00:08.02
Steve
Yeah, that’s a great message. Thank you, Luis. And thanks to our listeners for tuning in. Don’t forget to subscribe to the uphill athlete podcast for more inspiring conversations like this. Until next time, stay curious and keep reaching for higher ground.