There are a few related comments in this thread: https://uphillathlete.com/forums/topic/more-focus-on-higher-intesity-for-aging-athletes/
Reed
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ParticipantParticipant
I found this write-up from Scott J. to be very helpful: https://uphillathlete.com/forums/topic/ctltrainingpeaks-and-tfna/
For hard muscular workout that has a very high local muscular endurance factor with a (disappointingly) low HR such as an uphill ME workout then I pick a number that reflects the recovery time before the athlete feels ready for another such workout. An ME workout for a high level athlete like David Goettler or Luke Nelson will take them days to recovery from and based on the actual workout I have assigned I will give these a TSS of 150-200.
ParticipantBQ = Boston marathon qualifying time. https://www.baa.org/races/boston-marathon/qualify
ParticipantIf she’s averaging 40 miles / week, that suggests 7-8 hours of training. Keeping most of that training (80-95%) below AeT will lead to progress.
It could also be that force production is more of a limiting factor, so strength training (sprints / squats / etc.) may be valuable.
More time in Zone 1 is worthwhile. Progress over six weeks is great, but more progress can be made over six months or six years.
I’ll let others offer further guidance on the physiological considerations of zone 2 training. There are also several threads on this forum that cover some of this in further detail. E.g., https://uphillathlete.com/forums/topic/interpreting-blood-lactate-test-also-zone-definitions/
ParticipantI think that she would see continued improvement with consistent training in Z2 (~140-150bpm) for many months to come. The cautions against too much Z2 work become more important as speeds increase and the total work / wear & tear / neurological impact increases. Running 20 miles per week is substantially different from running 50 miles per week.
I’d suggest focusing on increasing time and miles below AeT, mobility and flexibility, and strength training (e.g., core workout 2x/week). Taking a conservative approach is excellent. There’s nothing wrong with hiking uphill and running downhill!
One way to gauge progress is to track speed at aerobic threshold. If it’s a 10:45 pace now, there’s room for it to speed up to 10min/mi, 9min/mi, 8min/mi… over the coming months and years.
ParticipantI think the activity types have to match – planned TrainingPeaks runs & Garmin runs sync fine, while for planned TrainingPeaks strength & Garmin “other” workouts I drag-and-drop to merge as Scott said.
ParticipantDo you have the time-series data, like a link to a TrainingPeaks workout summary? I am curious whether performing this on a track impacted the test. Were those peak heart rates, or averages for each segment? Did her speed increase each time?
Access to a treadmill might be limited. If you re-do the test, perhaps do 2 laps of a 400m track, and focus on maintaining constant speed within each segment.
ParticipantDepends on how afflicted you are with OCD :). Or how much value you put on having historical data to refer to. A while back I had several months’ worth of data that were based on (incorrect) running pace TSS rather than heart rate. The bulk recalculate option [1] might help you out, or you might have to do some of it manually.
[1] https://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-us/articles/205230130-Bulk-Recalculate-TSS-TSS-backfiller-
ParticipantReed on May 19, 2020 at 9:31 am · in reply to: More focus on higher intesity for aging athletes ? #41884Hi Garret! Glad to see you here! I skimmed Joe Friel’s book Fast after 50 (I gave it to Ted for his 50th birthday). What I took away from that, and that blog post, was:
- The ability to recover from a training load decreases with age. I’m guessing that’s particularly true in absolute terms for stronger athletes. A recreational rower might train 250 hours per year, collegiate-level 500 hours per year, international might see 800-1,200 hours of training volume (figures from Nolte, Rowing Faster). An elite rower in his 60s would be less likely to be able to handle 1,000 hours per year.
- A couple of decades of endurance training probably put into place most or all of the structural changes (capillary density, tendon & ligament strength) that the athlete is going to see, although maintaining those with appropriate stimulus remains important. High intensity work will have more impact on functional changes (enzymes, mitochondria) that will result in high force production / speed.
So, combining those two: if you had been training 10 hours per week, you might allocate 5% or 30 minutes per week to high intensity on average. My interpretation of Friel’s advice: first, don’t get lazy and stop doing the 30 minutes of high intensity work. Second, if you have to drop volume down to 8 hours per week, keep the 30 minutes of intensity. The percentage obviously increases. But I don’t think he’s arguing for a substantial increase in absolute volume of high intensity (unless you didn’t maintain that 30 minute allocation).
-Reed
ParticipantHi Anna,
Take a look at Scott’s writeup on how heart rate & zones evolve – might help with some of your questions. https://www.scottsemple.com/aerobic-evolution/
I’m interpreting this discussion of “fatiguing” to be on the days-to-weeks timescale, not necessarily how a run feels in the moment. You might have a narrow ~5% gap between AeT and AnT, but if your zone 2 pace is a 9:00 min/mile jog, it won’t be as physiologically taxing as it would be if your zone 2 pace were 6:00 min/mile. For the same amount of hours of training, the second pace would be 50% more miles, which will demand more of tendons, bones, etc.
The initial intended audience of Training for the New Alpinism was fairly advanced athletes. People like me, with <400 hours per year of structured training, don’t have “magic bodies” but instead just have more room for improvement.
Most zone 1 workouts will leave you refreshed, more energized than when you started. A 34-km training run won’t fall into that category, but feeling ready to go again in a day or two means that it was a workout that Andreas could recover from, get stronger, and build off of. (A workout where he “banked” fitness rather than “withdrew” fitness.)
-Reed
ParticipantNot that you necessarily want to take advice for your first ultra from Gary Cantrell a.k.a. Lazarus Lake, who runs the Barkley Marathons, but…
The crux of the race is not how well you ascend the bad climbs where everyone will be going slow, but how you handle the transition to runnable sections of the course. […] At the end of a long, hard, soul-sucking climb, the greatest threat we face is not the possibility of encountering a bear but the time limit. Even though it is our natural tendency to move slowly until we have recovered, we must drop the effort just below the redline and move effectively while recovering.
ParticipantReed on May 5, 2020 at 4:17 pm · in reply to: Adapting the marathon training plan to local trails #41191Hi Erica,
Take advantage of where you are! I have easy access to a long path along the Charles River in Cambridge – I’d love to spend more time in Colorado mountain trails, but I also enjoy running on flat.
Races are valuable commitment devices & motivators. It may be a while until large events come back, though. You might consider finding another training milestone or goal. For example – could you accumulate 150 hours of Zone 1 aerobic work through the rest of 2020? (Or 200 hours, or 300 hours, depending on your level of training.) If that means hiking – great!
Set yourself up for emotional success as well as training success. Hiking in Z1 on Colorado trails at 8,000-12,000 feet will definitely build up aerobic capacity that will translate to improved running capability. It won’t be specific training, but definitely good base / general training.
-Reed
ParticipantIt seems difficult to sustain those for too long – definitely “specific” period training. If you have a a 6-month timeline, you might ramp up to your longest runs in months 4 and 5. So something like [longs runs of ~20mi, then ~25mi the following week, then recovery week of ~15mi] x 3. Then a few weeks to taper down before racing.
ParticipantThat sounds roughly right for 100K distance ultras. The 100K training plans in Powell’s Relentless Forward Progress and Koerner’s Field Guide to Ultrarunning both have multiple ~25-mile long runs and one ~30-mile long run. For 100-milers, you’re probably looking at a 50-miler as your longest training run. (My experience caps out at a ~43 miler.)
ParticipantReed on April 6, 2020 at 3:55 pm · in reply to: Running, for the non-runner, during the 'rona. #40240As for signs of injury or overuse – it pays to be conservative. Running should not hurt. “Run through the pain” is a path to injury, perhaps not immediately but definitely in the long term. Maybe try out different running forms / techniques (Pose, Chi, etc.) and see what works for you.