On my android in mobile view links and attachments are not visible on this forum, I have to switch to desktop view. I did include a link but yes you are right it is science of ultra. I recall this episode being particularly good.
Aaron
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ParticipantAaron on January 25, 2019 at 8:21 am · in reply to: Recovery/Consolidation Week Minimum Volume #16235ParticipantAaron on January 24, 2019 at 10:47 pm · in reply to: Recovery/Consolidation Week Minimum Volume #16232
This podcast is pretty interesting listen on this subject.
https://www.scienceofultra.com/podcasts/6In today’s episode Dr. Trappe and I talk about training adaptations, then detraining, then put those together to come to some conclusions about the tapering period where we try to balance these.
The questions I posed to Dr. Trappe include:
Training
Genetics. There was a belief that genetics provide each person with a particular range of possibility and that there is a limit set by those genetics for each person such that one person’s maximal potential may be below another’s lower spectrum. Is that correct and to what degree do genetics compare with training for our endurance capacity.
What is the time-course for the various adaptations: capillarity, mitochondrial capacity, power, neuromuscular control, etc.? [for clarity, capillarity is the density of capillary blood vessels within skeletal muscle – which is important for oxygen and nutrient delivery ; mitochondrial capacity is the sum of the tools a cell uses for generating ATP while utilizing oxygen] – it will vary based on the volume and intensity but we talk generally about the components.
What components continue to develop over years of training and what components of adaptation to endurance are maximized, if any, relatively early (like in the first year or so of regular serious training) – e.g., we don’t continue increasing capillarity indefinitely.
Training prescriptions are often designed so that a given hard day of training is maximized while still low enough in density so that the next training day (perhaps 2 days later) can be completed with equivalent volume/intensity. How do we optimize this – there is a spectrum – steady runs every day vs very hard one day that takes many days to recover from…how do we plan for the balance so that we are making the fastest, steady gains in endurance capacity?
Some prescription plans cycle three weeks increasing in density (volume or intensity or combination), then back off for a week, then start over with a little increase. Graphically this might look like three steps up and one down, repeat. How does this approach compare to backing off slightly in those three weeks and not stepping down in the fourth week – evening out the 4 weeks so that there is a persistent increase in training density over time. Any benefit of one approach over the other?
Cross-training: physiologically useful or can we get more out of staying 100% sport specific and tailoring the workouts carefully (to avoid injury and boredom)?
When we evaluate training, the goal is to maximize adaptable stimulus and provide sufficient environment for adaptation. To what extent do easy days (recovery runs) layer onto the stimulus for adaptation: is there a stoking effect that keeps the stimulus maintained until the next tough workout OR do recovery runs somehow promote a more beneficial adaptation environment – where do recovery runs sit in the balance equation of stimulate/adapt? …what do we know about the specific mechanisms of the benefits of easy days (recovery runs) between hard workouts?
Detraining
For an endurance runner with capacity X or Y, what is the minimum stimulus required to maintain what they’ve developed; surely this varies for the different components from neuromuscular coordination and control, through muscle bioenergetics…but what do we know about maintaining capacity?
Trail running, and many or most ultra marathons are on trails, require both endurance and an endurance in power – due to the elevation changes, both up and down hills. Are these capacities different from a muscle tissue perspective…flat ground endurance vs mountain hills endurance? Do those capacities detrain differently?
Balancing Training Adaptation with Detraining
Promoting recovery while resisting losses is the fundamental issue at play in the period called tapering. Whatever you call it, it is the final days or maybe weeks as we approach a key race or event. What are the best practices for tapering for endurance events – what works, what doesn’t?
Recovery required from races – 50k-100mile+ all can take a substantial toll on muscle tissue both structurally and functionally. When muscle is trashed – not a lot has been studied in the specific context of ultra marathons but we do know about repeated eccentric loading [eccentric is contraction while a muscle is lengthening – as is required of the quadriceps while running downhill] – what elements of muscle function recover the fastest and what takes the longest to recover?
Considerations for races in quick succession (e.g., 100k-100mile 4-6 weeks apart, or 50k 2-3 weeks apart)?
Participant‘=minutes, “=seconds
ParticipantRather than start a new thread I’m hoping to ask a clarifying question built off this one. I’m not planning any ‘races’, but rather off trail mountain ‘running’ traverses between 25 and 35 km with ~10% of distance as vertical meters gain and loss. High turnover/pace running is not the main factor.
This plan seems ideal due to the relative scalability and ME focus alignment with my off trail shorter distance goals but (relative) high vertical.
Not having seen the plan yet im hoping that the first 4 weeks of running can be largely substituted for xc as I’ll be base training over winter via xc leading up to a mid/back of the pack xc marathon (avoiding very much intensity) with 4 weeks overlap when I would supposed to be starting the 20 week big Vert plan.
ParticipantI’ve been enjoying listening to the podcast science of ultra to augment TFTNA.
Episode 19 https://www.scienceofultra.com/podcasts/19 is is dedicated to fat adaptation for endurance athletes although if I recall focuses more on dietary (low carv, high fat) than training for fat substrate utilization.
ParticipantSo helpful these thoughtful questions and responses. I’ve been struggling with steep walking vs running and the video you mentioned was very helpful. 16131524
ParticipantI’ve been doing lightly weighted(barbells) one leg box jumps lately as part of a max strength routine and liking them along with heavily weighted step ups, split squats and squats.
ParticipantI feel like my heart rate and respiratory rate sometimes decouple in cold weather. In circa – 20 deg Celsius and wind I think my hr climbs well above my respiratory rate. I’ve been paying close attention to the ventilator turn points and hr as described in the 3 part articles and TFTNA.
ParticipantForgot to explicitly say they can be made as pancakes or waffles.
ParticipantBruno, I have a similar profile to you and have likewise focused on maintaining health. Nutrition, sleep and no alcohol is my formula. I find stressful work requires exercise for good sleep but too much exercise can also become a stress. Dropping alcohol entirely has really helped my sleep and overall resilience.
ParticipantIf a backcountry day trip is not a special mission I try to pay attention to recommend ratios of intensity but don’t worry about the overall volume of the day. In addition to the training effect from the day I find these good mental practice for pacing. Hard part is finding like minded partners who are understanding of pacing and intensity goals for training.
I find following skin track on low to moderate terrain I can comfortably stay below Aet, but trailbreaking on the same ground requires pacing, breathing and form focus.
Moving into steeper ground bumps this up a level. Focus needed to stay Aet following skin track and breaking trail pushes into z3. That is why you switch out and also is a good way to enforce lower angle skin tracks that work the terrain.