A Family Affair: Hilary Spires on Running the HURT 100

00:01.22
Alyssa
Welcome to the Uphill Athlete podcast. My name is Alyssa Clark and I will be your host today. I’m psyched to have my good friend, ah podcaster, amazing runner, mom, coach, wife, tennis player, hockey player, all the things

00:22.19
Alyssa
Hilary Spires on. She is the trail running woman podcast host, which I highly recommend checking out that podcast. Hilary and I just ran hurt together, so she’s here to talk about her experiences and some you know fun twists that kind of came along the way, we’ll say.

00:45.59
Hilary Spires
Totally. Well, thank you so much for that lovely introduction. And I was just saying before the show, I’m nervous to be on this side of it. But ah yeah, excited to get into things too. So thanks for having me.

00:57.16
Alyssa
Of course, yeah. We’ve done a lot of episodes together, which has been super fun, but I think this is the first time I’ve really turned the tables on you, so I’m excited for this.

01:06.92
Hilary Spires
Yeah, totally. And also I’m like, oh no, I can’t edit out what I say because I’m not in control. So now I’m nervous.

01:15.82
Alyssa
Well, luckily, I do know the editors of this podcast, so if you do need something edited out, I actually meant to say that to you before we started, and then we just jumped into it. but Um, yeah, anything you need.

01:27.22
Alyssa
Uh, we were talking politics before, so we’ll see.

01:30.37
Hilary Spires
yeah not recording

01:31.76
Alyssa
She’s still talking to me. Yeah. And she’s Canadian. So, um, let’s yeah. Well, I believe I would say that the biggest twist is that you had a baby nine months before hurt.

01:44.42
Alyssa
So we are going to really get into, um, your pregnancy journey and also postpartum leading into the race, but I’d love for you to just tell the listeners a little bit about your background and how you found yourself into ultras and at the starting line of hurt.

01:55.16
Hilary Spires
Yeah, we did not regret that.

02:03.83
Hilary Spires
Yeah, for sure. I mean, um I am going to make a disclaimer that we are going to talk about the postpartum and it’s a lot of different information out there. And I just don’t want anybody to hear this. I did a race recap and I said the same thing and think,

02:19.39
Hilary Spires
Okay, I’m just gonna listen to what she said and and apply it to my own postpartum journey because it’s super personal and there’s a lot of aspects you can control, but there’s a lot of aspects that you can’t and that um like birth is a trauma on your body and like any injury has to be given the appropriate time to heal and some tissues heal faster than others, no matter how athletic you are or how strong of a runner you are and that it doesn’t always go hand in hand and again yes there are things you can do but it’s I think just really important the only takeaway is work with your own doctor public floor therapist ideally for your own

03:00.38
Hilary Spires
for your own body. And so the same as you don’t have, I don’t, I didn’t listen to anybody else’s timeline. I worked with my own doctors and I just think that’s super important to say because I know a lot of even sub three marathoners that ended up with a prolapse and things down the road because again, it doesn’t equate like, Oh, I’m this level of runner. Therefore I’ll heal this fast. It’s a totally different ball game. And, um, we can get more into that, but I just want to make that disclaimer.

03:25.38
Hilary Spires
um Personally, I was a hockey player in the NCAA when I was younger and then I got into a variety of other sports and I always just needed that kind of drive for competition and to push myself and running is fun.

03:41.64
Hilary Spires
But then one day I went to a trail race and I was like, oh, I’m never doing anything else in my life ever. um I don’t want to slam road running. So road running is great. But then you go into the mountains and especially up here in the Pacific Northwest, I was just like, whoa, this is my life now.

03:56.27
Hilary Spires
And that was over a decade ago, I think. And since then, I’ve had two children. My oldest son is five. He’s called Baker after Baker Mountain, a big skiing family.

04:05.06
Alyssa
Love it.

04:06.07
Hilary Spires
um And then my second one is, yeah, nine months now. ah We call him Veds. He’s named Vetter, not after Eddie, but it doesn’t hurt that Eddie Vetter’s awesome. But there’s also a mountain called Vetter Mountain. And I have had it on my bucket list forever. And I think I just sort of thought when I started running again, like maybe this is the year because Canada does get a year for mat leave and it’s the type of race where I could carry him up mountains or we could do stroller runs together and it felt very like family friendly to train for this race.

04:42.05
Hilary Spires
ah So I put my name in the lottery and then it actually came out on my oldest son’s birthday so I didn’t look at

04:48.28
Alyssa
oh

04:49.52
Hilary Spires
the, yeah, I wasn’t looking at the, the, the list right away. And then I got a text from you that was like, you’re 14th on the waitlist. That’s guaranteed. You’re you’re in. And I was like, Oh, shoot.

05:03.18
Alyssa
Yeah, uh-oh!

05:04.99
Hilary Spires
yeah it’s Getting very real.

05:09.32
Alyssa
Yeah. I mean, that’s, I love that. And also I should caveat that the hurt 100 is the Hawaii ultra running team. 100 it’s a hundred miler in Hawaii. It’s Rocky Rudy. It’s supposedly one of the top 10 hardest hundreds in the world. That’s, I never know how much I put into those lists, but it has been listed multiple times.

05:32.85
Alyssa
ah within that, so it definitely fits i feel like your wheelhouse of super techy stuff. but yeah I mean I’d be curious how you have found the dialogue either changing or feeling like you need to really advocate for yourself with your doctors and kind of going into, hey, I want to take on this big challenge nine months out.

06:03.80
Alyssa
Like how have you felt that has hopefully evolved over the years?

06:09.58
Hilary Spires
Yeah, yeah it is interesting that my children are five years apart as well. So I did get to experience it the first time, and then again, the second time. And I will say the second time, you’re a little more like I understand the process.

06:21.49
Hilary Spires
Now, the first time, the studies were just coming out that said, hold on, it’s not six weeks, it’s 12 weeks. um And one pelvic floor therapist explained it to me like this, nothing magical happens at six weeks at midnight.

06:35.56
Hilary Spires
That’s like, you’re ready, or in 12 weeks.

06:37.47
Alyssa
yeah

06:38.80
Hilary Spires
ah And, but with Baker, I had started running quite soon after and my midwives had said it was fine. And then I was talking on social media about, Oh, it’s so nice to run again. And like, without, uh, being pregnant. And I did get a little bit of mild shaming backlog of, uh, or pushback of like,

07:04.90
Hilary Spires
Oh, you know, I had this other runner having an uncomplicated birth and like, you’re not supposed to run before 12 weeks. Like it’s super dangerous and you could be doing harm and like, you shouldn’t be promoting that. And I was like, okay, that’s not what I meant to do at all. Um, but I hadn’t seen a pelvic floor therapist. So basically I just felt very undereducated. Um, and then I saw a pelvic floor therapist and they were talking about how, where my specific strength was at and that there was still work to be done and like a return to run program could have been a bit gentler.

07:35.27
Hilary Spires
in general. um And it all ended up fine. It was just really interesting to get into that space and feel like nobody knows what the answer is here. And I felt very kind of alone. And then with my second son, I knew that what I needed was a very athletic pelvic floor therapist that could understand me as an individual instead of um tissues in a Petri dish.

07:58.15
Hilary Spires
Deciding how long it should be because that’s what the studies are done on right is it takes 12 weeks for these tissues to heal in a lab don’t quote me this is what I was told right so everything with discretion and

08:12.55
Hilary Spires
She was a lot more, I think willing because I had said, well, I was pregnant. This is what I want to do. And she could tell right away when I was like, this is my weekly mileage pregnant. And this is the strength training I’m doing. And she’s like, okay, we’re going to get your baseline strength. Now I’ll be able to test it again after you have the baby. And we’ll talk about how the birth went. And there’s so many details. Like how long were you in each stage for?

08:34.21
Hilary Spires
um What sort of damage was done after? Were there any tools needed? And there’s just so many little aspects that it was like the key was having this pelvic floor therapist Understand my body exactly and one part when talked about previously the controllables is that she knew my baseline of fitness going into the birth.

08:56.47
Hilary Spires
So she’s like, your tissues didn’t detrain to zero, like you stayed.

09:01.93
Alyssa
Yeah.

09:02.88
Hilary Spires
So they were able to heal back up at above zero. So you can put more load on earlier on, if that makes any sense. um So I found working with her and just being more confident in my own journey and being like, I don’t and in Social media has changed since then too. We’re like, I don’t really care what somebody else says about what I’m doing. I’m definitely not trying to tell anybody else to do anything, but I don’t care what anybody says about my body either because it’s mine. Uh, though people think when you’re pregnant, it’s theirs.

09:36.68
Alyssa
No, that, yeah, I mean, that makes, yeah.

09:37.21
Hilary Spires
Do you know what I mean?

09:40.97
Alyssa
Yeah, you know, I do hope that we have come a bit further in that regard. I think I remember that you got a ton of pushback for doing a pretty short race during your first pregnancy, right?

09:57.04
Alyssa
It didn’t like the grouse grind.

09:57.31
Hilary Spires
Yes.

09:59.12
Alyssa
Sorry to bring that up, but I feel, yeah.

09:59.31
Hilary Spires
Yeah, no, no, that was totally fine. The shaming during pregnancy was what I was expecting. I wasn’t expecting the postpartum, but I mean, it wasn’t that short.

10:10.85
Hilary Spires
It was the gross kind, but it was how many times you could do it in a day. So I did seven and I was eight months pregnant.

10:14.43
Alyssa
Oh.

10:15.83
Hilary Spires
So it was pretty close to the same elevation of hurt. um But as you’re walking, it was fine. And my midwives again were like, oh yeah, not a problem for you.

10:26.32
Hilary Spires
My heart rate got to like 115 on the whole day. so it wasn’t wasn’t an issue. But the other thing I did afterwards was just worked with three different doctors that didn’t know about each other just to get assessments, just so that I could be like, if there’s anything that I need to be aware of here, somebody’s probably going to catch it. And there’s all this thing like right after you have your baby where There are so many hormones and so much fear and things aren’t exactly the same as they were before and you go through this panic and I ended up did finding this group of really good runners actually that ended up with um Trauma from birth that will impact their running forever. So a huge part of it. I’m thankful that I did just get Lucky and it’s you know, if some of them were in a place where they were having so much pain from certain

11:16.32
Hilary Spires
injuries that they were like, I would have elected for a C-section. So there’s just so many avenues that it can take that, yeah, I just don’t want to speak for anybody, but from my experience, I guess I’ll say again.

11:30.16
Alyssa
Yeah. I mean, I think that’s super important. And I also knowing you and kind of watching it, like the whole time you said like, yes, this is my goal, but really it seemed like just a great way to kind of like treat and spend time with your family and like have this, this thing that yes, it’s out there, but you always seem to very willing to be like, yeah, but that they might just not work this year and that’s okay.

12:00.19
Hilary Spires
Totally. Yeah. And I think that’s what was kind of fun about both of our like journeys to herd is yours was so dialed in to do this at such an aggressive pace and was so fun to see. And then the flip side of it is like yeah coming in from the other angle that’s like, this is a goal that essentially my whole family is working towards because obviously my husband had to be involved in certain childcare.

12:23.01
Hilary Spires
um And if it doesn’t work for us, like the race isn’t going anywhere. I can still try to get in next year. ah You know, I’m getting older, but I’m not ancient. I can run this for many more years. So just being totally gentle on that aspect that like, this is fun, but it’s okay if it doesn’t. So yeah, that’s exactly right.

12:45.09
Alyssa
Yeah, but I mean, you, I loved seeing that, but also, I mean, you worked hard. Like you put in some big weeks and we’re trading hard. So I’d love to hear about the kind of birth to A, the point that you found out you’re going to hurt. Like what did that kind of piece look like as you were building back into running?

13:11.10
Hilary Spires
Yeah, so I remember the first day that I went for a run around 3K, which is like a mile and a bit, and just was like, do I have any pain? Do things feel OK? And this was July. So if you think you’re like maybe running 3K and then what’s that, seven months later, you’re going to run one of the hardest 100 milers. Like, it’s a bit big. um But everything felt great. And I was doing all of the strength training to regain pelvic floor strength leading into that. and Because my baseline of fitness wasn’t at zero, the one benefit that that came into was I went for a jog with some friends, I think two weeks after that, that was like.

13:53.85
Hilary Spires
12 miles and it felt fine. So it was like, that’s kind of where my base went down to.

13:57.11
Alyssa
nice

13:59.48
Hilary Spires
Now that being said, I would not have ran 12 miles on the road, but we live in terrain. That’s a lot like the hurt terrain where there’s a lot of power hiking and then there’s some like scooting on your butt down.

14:06.64
Alyssa
Nice.

14:09.65
Hilary Spires
So you’re covering the distance, but you’re not just pounding, pounding, pounding. Uh, so in that sense, it was really lucky. And then I built up to the day before we could enter the lottery, which I think was the end of July.

14:22.91
Alyssa
Yeah, and then when you find out Excuse me, you enter, yeah, at the end of July, you find out at the end of August.

14:25.67
Hilary Spires
monthly.

14:29.66
Hilary Spires
Yeah. So I went out and just ran 30K and was like, if this feels okay, I’m going to put my name in and it felt great. And then I put my name in. And so like, that is all a little bit crazy and risky, but that’s what I do and that’s what happened.

14:48.16
Alyssa
Well, I mean, yes and no. I think that it’s, and again, I’m speaking to this of not having a kid, having never been through that, but as an athlete, literally your job is to be tuned into your body and to know like yourself.

15:01.95
Hilary Spires
Yeah.

15:04.05
Alyssa
And so I think that it’s like, just because you’re pregnant doesn’t mean you’ve forgotten like all of that, that work that we do to be tuned into that.

15:18.70
Hilary Spires
That is such a great point. And that comes into play like postpartum and pregnant where you’re like, Have I pushed too far? am i do i’ again I guess with any injury, is this something that isn’t okay?

15:30.85
Hilary Spires
Or am I just hungry or short on electrolytes? Because sometimes they all feel the same, right?

15:36.53
Alyssa
Yeah.

15:37.55
Hilary Spires
So it’s really touching.

15:37.98
Alyssa
Yeah.

15:39.09
Hilary Spires
You can tell like, okay, pull it back or have a snack.

15:44.98
Alyssa
ah Yes, I mean, that could be true for anyone. ah So, okay, you’re at that point, you decide, hey, I’m going to put in for the lottery. We’ll see what happens. You essentially get in because you’re off the waitlist. How do you then start thinking about it, were you working with a coach at that point? Or are you like, okay, I want to get a coach on board? Like, how did that look?

16:08.96
Hilary Spires
Yeah, totally. So I know Gary Robbins. I’m pretty good friends with his wife, Linda. And obviously, he’s had the male course record for a long time. um But the one thing I knew about him was that he would kind of understand me as an athlete. So I’ve worked with coaches before that are just naturally very fast. And not that he’s not obviously naturally very fast, but that there’s like my style of running is a bit more of like a grinder, basically, right? Like just a hard worker. Sorry, kids yelling. A hard worker, not necessarily like a super fast,

16:47.50
Hilary Spires
runner runner naturally. And I sort of liked that kind of match. Um, and he understood exactly what I was talking about. And so I messaged him and it was like, Hey, this is going to seem crazy. I have a four month old, but I would like to run in five months. Like, what do you think? And he was like, okay.

17:07.06
Hilary Spires
So we had our initial call and I answered the phone and he’s like 18 weeks till race day. And I was like, Oh shit. Sorry. Pardon my language. But like.

17:15.20
Alyssa
No, go for it. We swear.

17:16.56
Hilary Spires
Yeah, and I think because he knew a bit about me beforehand, um kind of knew like, okay, we can sort of throw the kitchen sink and see what happens. And for the first time, and I say this in my recent race recap as well, I looked at the three week plan ahead and was like,

17:32.38
Hilary Spires
I don’t know if I can do this. And I liked that level of fear. ah And on the baby side, it was super complicated because I had to say in my plan three weeks out, these are the days I can do long runs. I can’t do it back to back. I have one day a week that I can get to technical trails. Everything else is going to have to be road. And the Things are going to get messy because of the kids and ah yeah, their whole team was great with that. So I would have one day a week where I had to go.

18:03.72
Hilary Spires
to the trails, which are about a 45 minute drive. But it meant that I got up at 4 AM, pumped milk, which is the worst, had coffee, and then went, did the run, pumped milk on the way home, and tried to get home before school picked up. And then every other run was at a ridiculous time in the morning. Or if my son had soccer at 9 AM, I would just run around until I ran to a soccer game and live in the next town, which is like seven or eight miles away, um for a total of 20 miles. But then you’re done at 9 AM.

18:33.80
Hilary Spires
The only issue is you’re not going home to recover, then you’re parenting two insane children. um So it worked, but I will not say it was easy nor uncomplicated.

18:47.40
Alyssa
Yeah, that’s wild. Your training was so much harder than mine. Mine was like, oh, well, you know, I got I like, I probably go 11, maybe 1pm, you know, if I’m tired, or you know, whatever. Yeah, so like, so so impressed, as I knew, but yeah, even more impressed hearing you say that. So what did the and again, like, this is just Hillary’s experience, this is not meant to be a blueprint, which is why I’m like almost hesitant to ask you, but I guess like what hours wise did that look like, say um in October, where were you for hours per week and then building into kind of your peak week?

19:33.35
Hilary Spires
Yeah. um Let’s have a quick peek, because I don’t know. It was a lot.

19:39.89
Alyssa
I know I was trying to think too.

19:42.01
Hilary Spires
It was a lot, but also, OK, hold on one second.

19:47.85
Hilary Spires
Yeah, so with everything, I was always between 15 and 20 hours a week because my cross training would.

19:54.58
Alyssa
Nice! Okay.

19:57.06
Hilary Spires
So here’s the thing, that sounds insane. But like we were talking before, if you’re a lifelong athlete, my world sort of revolves around movement. And that’s why getting back to running or exercise in general was so important to me, partly because that’s how I play with my kids as well. So it wouldn’t look like a really solid four hour run. It would look like two hours in the morning before anybody’s awake, and then come home, help with breakfast, and then my son really likes to run to school. It’s only a mile, but I would put his backpack on my back, run him to school, and then I would run home with a little extra or something like that, and then go hike with the baby. So it’s like, I couldn’t tell you what the percentage of that was without kids, but a large part of it was

20:44.39
Hilary Spires
Uh, with them too. So it doesn’t sound as challenging as it actually is when you include them all, I guess.

20:53.15
Alyssa
Yeah, but that, I mean, what a cool way to do that. Also Baker’s, I’m waiting for him to get his contract because he’s either being like crew captain or yeah, youngest ultra runner.

21:04.79
Alyssa
He is awesome. Um, I love, I love seeing the photos and videos.

21:07.03
Hilary Spires
Yeah. lot of

21:12.23
Alyssa
What other cross-training did you do other than running?

21:16.49
Hilary Spires
Yeah, so strength is really important to me and obviously like the pelvic floor and the core really had to come back for this. So we have a gym in our garage, which again is ah super lucky just time-wise. So during nap time, stuff like that. And I am not on like a big set program. I like to try to get strong in strange positions. So sometimes I just like to pick up a kettlebell and see like, if I’m on one leg with instability, like where do I get stuck with range of motion and things like that? um More functional type stuff like that. And then I also just like, my husband and I would dress in a bar, not that heavy, like 75 pounds or something and just do like five power cleans every time we walk by or something fun like that. So it’s sort of mixed into the day. um But then just a lot of tennis, which probably has nothing to do with running, but I love it.

22:07.91
Alyssa
No, first off, I love that that’s you and your husband’s idea of fun. That’s amazing.

22:13.58
Hilary Spires
That’s weird.

22:15.81
Alyssa
No, but if I actually, okay, this is really interesting because my guess is that because you had to run more on the road to suit a family, that that tennis footwork helped you a ton.

22:29.55
Hilary Spires
Yeah, probably just quick likemo motion, agility.

22:30.35
Alyssa
like

22:33.80
Alyssa
Exactly. And also just having the ankle both like mobility and strength.

22:40.45
Hilary Spires
Yeah, totally.

22:40.62
Alyssa
Like both if that may they always seem like kind of opposing but it’s like you have to have an ankle that’s flexible enough excuse me to deal with the variations in the terrain but you also can’t have it too flexible that it just rolls all the time so it’s like a weirdly stiff flexible ankle that doesn’t make any sense but it is

22:58.75
Hilary Spires
with No, it totally does because it actually pertains to postpartum because I don’t know if you know this, you have a hormone in your body for a very long time called relaxin. So so and everything I know, right?

23:06.89
Alyssa
So funny. It’s called that.

23:10.71
Hilary Spires
Everything just flops over and then comes back and you’re like, oh, that should have felt worse than it did. Uh, so yeah, that all comes into play. And then I think just as we kind of alluded to, I’m just so lucky that my entire running career has been on this completely rugged, horrible terrain. Like I don’t think if I was from say California running on buff trails that I could have adapted to the hurt terrain. I think your feet would get beat up. Like so, it would have been much harder, but because of my whole background doing that, I think it made it work a little bit.

23:43.09
Alyssa
Yeah. I mean, I think totally, totally. How long does it relax and stay in your system? And do you feel like you were pretty much like kind of, I hate to say back to normal, but like back to kind of whatever that normal is before the race.

24:00.91
Hilary Spires
Yeah, I don’t actually know. I know it’s at least six months, maybe longer, and then it’s not like it just disappears. um So I don’t know how long it stays in, but I know it’s a significantly longer time postpartum than I had been expecting because of my experience with Baker.

24:07.64
Alyssa
Right.

24:15.50
Hilary Spires
But the back to normal thing is so hard too because you don’t.

24:21.76
Alyssa
That’s not it’s not possible, yeah.

24:24.71
Hilary Spires
And then I also remember with Baker, it was COVID and my friend Katie and I did some FKTs when he was one. And I remember thinking, Oh, I’m really fit. I’m back. And then two or three years later, I wasn’t even close. It actually took two or three years. So um that’s why I want to go back to her as well, because it’s like, that was probably as close to as fit as I could get in, um I guess, eight and a half months. No, yeah, he was almost nine months, anyways, whatever, around that. ah But probably it will take another year, at least, because you get, like, as you know, with any endurance training, you can’t just rush it, right?

25:02.32
Alyssa
Yeah, I’m super excited for you to go back because just hearing all of the variables that you had going into it and how well it still went. And I feel like we’ll and we’ we’ll touch on that as well, but yeah, I’m excited. You know, there’s so much upside, like it’s kind of insane. Um, how did you deal with breastfeeding and keeping up with the caloric needs of, you know, pretty high volume training?

25:32.09
Hilary Spires
Yeah, I ate a lot. I ate a lot. um And excuse basically just high fat foods all the time. And it was good because sometimes I because you can get away with a long run sometimes without eating enough.

25:47.97
Hilary Spires
um so block and being lazy sometimes I would and that is not going to work because you can get away over with it for five hours you can’t get away with it for 20 something hours so um it might have helped with the training with that too but then I just I’m not normally a huge breakfast person but I started to be and then just a lot more nuts high-fat like dense stuff.

26:09.74
Hilary Spires
And again, that was something I knew from Baker, like that it’s going to feel pretty crazy. And it definitely did because there was a point where I think I was eating like 4,000 calories in a day and still losing weight.

26:20.24
Alyssa
nice oh jeez that’s wild you’re good yeah no worries um yeah i can imagine you’d need a ton of calories i mean i need a ton of calories not trying to keep a

26:20.93
Hilary Spires
Wow, This is crazy.

26:30.03
Hilary Spires
Give me one second. I’m just going to put water in this because I’m choking on the air. Sorry, you’re going to have to edit.

26:44.27
Alyssa
human alive. um So were you breastfeeding during hurt or kind of like when did that stop or keep going or how did you handle that?

26:56.28
Hilary Spires
So I planned to pump at the aid stations or feed him a little bit at the aid stations. And around eight months, he actually weaned himself, which was a huge surprise because I had planned to go about a year ago.

27:09.22
Alyssa
Amazing.

27:11.02
Hilary Spires
Yeah, I mean, you feel a bit rejected, but it was, I found out, and I don’t know if this was the, this is kind of a weird story, but he got teeth very early. He ended up being like a little bit physically advanced, um both the way he would grow and then his,

27:26.25
Hilary Spires
walking and being totally insane but he had teeth and he bit me super super hard and I pumped and the bottle was full of blood like it was dark red and so I guess they could break something like deeper inside and I don’t know if it was really bad taste for him then and he wasn’t like he remembered that or what but it was basically the next day after the bite and the bleeding that he just I couldn’t get him to eat anymore and I was like

27:37.42
Alyssa
Oh, ouch. Oh.

27:55.55
Hilary Spires
You know what, as much as I really wanted to keep going, it’s also eight months of basically only breast milk and then a little bit of solids. Still, I felt like I did a lot for him. So that ended up being a lot easier on the actual race and also worked out because he started taking steps around eight months, which if you have kids is like a little bit early just because they’re kind of dumb and like walking into walls and into tables. He started to get night terrors and wake up in the night. And there’s a time change in Hawaii that would have made that like 1 a.m. And we were staying in this tiny little Airbnb. And my husband one day was like, I think the baby and I should stay home. And at first I was like, no, I can’t. I’m not getting to the finish line and not having him there. And my husband was supposed to pace me for a loop. But the more we thought about it, like this baby,

28:47.97
Hilary Spires
And I have a crazy boy already. This second boy is so wild that we were like, man, a six-hour flight as well, where he doesn’t have a seat. like You’ve got to hold him, and he doesn’t want to be held. um And then keeping the whole family up, we were just like, maybe more stressed than it’s worth. And like he would just eat sand at the beach.

29:06.76
Hilary Spires
So it worked out. We decided to pull the plug and on the flip side, it was really nice because when you have your second kid, your first kid goes from being like everything, your relationship just to being with him to having to share you. So it was also really fun for Baker and I to go have that time because there is a five year difference. He remembers that. Um, so it was really fun for us to have our little vacation as well. So.

29:32.19
Hilary Spires
My parents were coming, so they hung out with the older kid during the race. But it all worked out great. And the race was so fun. And the vibe was so great that we can all go back next year. So Veds will come.

29:41.26
Alyssa
Love it. And it’s gonna happen. And I’ll be there to help.

29:44.38
Hilary Spires
Yes.

29:44.62
Alyssa
But yeah, and Baker got the best Hawaiian outfit. Is he still wearing it?

29:49.70
Hilary Spires
Well, it’s really cold at home.

29:51.89
Alyssa
and Okay.

29:51.94
Hilary Spires
But he’s not on a hanger with the lei and everything. So yeah, he’ll be ready to go. But he talks about Hawaii every day. He’s like, we got to go back.

30:01.13
Alyssa
Aw, I love that. Yeah, so let’s kind of touch on training all of that piece. How did you feel going into the race um physically? You had a couple of other things pop up and then, yeah, let’s get into how it went.

30:19.97
Hilary Spires
Yeah, so I mean training went amazingly well up until two weeks before race day when I got a taper injury and I went to do like a bit a heavy vert today and um more, yeah, less running and my calf like blew up, worse than it’s ever been before and I couldn’t figure it out and I sort of knew it’s going to be fine, but also I didn’t run for maybe 10 days leading in. like I actually couldn’t run a step, which is very uncomforting. And I don’t know if that’s a word, but that’s what it felt like. I ended up probably with

30:57.89
Hilary Spires
four IMS appointments. And every time I saw dry needling, every time I saw a different physio, they’d be like, what did you do? Like the muscle spasm was so intense. Then I got prolotherapy in my ankle and my knee. We don’t need to get into what that is, but it does work for me. And your calf sits in the middle of these two like hinges, right? So it takes a lot of the impact. So once those kind of healed up, then I got two more massages and some last IMS and it wasn’t until about three days before, like really when we left that I started to get to say like a two out of 10 pain and then magically on race day, it didn’t bother me at all, which is crazy.

31:36.13
Hilary Spires
um are

31:36.12
Alyssa
Gotta love it.

31:38.10
Hilary Spires
Canada Post was on strike and we didn’t have our kids passports until like a week before we left so that was stressful. um So all of these little things kept happening and then once we got to Hawaii though everything was pretty perfect. um The only issue, well two issues, I have one physical issue with a rib but then because of the time change my son woke up like the day before race day at 4am and was like I’m ready.

32:05.16
Hilary Spires
And I was like, can we go back to sleep for a bit? And he’s like, no. So we went down to the beach. I think I texted you too. Like, this is not good.

32:13.07
Alyssa
Yeah.

32:14.33
Hilary Spires
And the waves were huge. So he body surfed for probably two hours and I sat in the sand, but every once in a while I was like, you’re going to drown. And I had to like running across sand and pulling them out of the water. It wasn’t super restful, but it was as good as it could be.

32:31.02
Hilary Spires
And then the race was awesome.

32:34.58
Alyssa
Yeah, well, I’m like, you know, going on my 20 or 30 minute easy shakeout run, you’re like, Yeah, I’ve been doing beach sprints, you know, since 4am. Like, cool. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, though, I feel like when

32:44.37
Hilary Spires
yeah

32:49.27
Alyssa
Please don’t, when I say this, everyone don’t freak out. But when you do have a high level of fitness, sometimes like, I think it can be detrimental if you shut it off too much.

33:01.01
Alyssa
So probably like waking your body up. Yeah. I think it helps. Like I added in an extra little run day during my taper. Cause I was like, I just kind of need to move.

33:11.81
Alyssa
I feel like I’m feeling worse because of this.

33:14.28
Hilary Spires
Totally.

33:14.43
Alyssa
So yeah.

33:15.38
Hilary Spires
Yeah. And I think to your point earlier about being so in tune with your body, I also played tennis on the Thursday before with him, um which is a lot of chasing down balls because he’s five. But I feel like I kind of know.

33:28.59
Hilary Spires
activity I’m in and where I’m getting to like how tired and how that’s gonna feel 12 hours later and like kind of consciously on like this is enough output that it’s gonna be completely topped up again recovery wise in 13 hours or 14 hours or like in the case of Friday like knowing okay 24 hours from now this isn’t dipping into my energy reserves yet do you know what I mean?

33:50.24
Alyssa
yeah totally yeah and i think again it’s it just goes back to another reason why i think endurance sports in particular i mean any sport ah so much comes down to years of experience where it’s just like how well do you know yourself how well can you handle what comes up and just have that confidence um so yeah let’s get to race day you’re lining up ah it’s a five loop. It’s not really they’re out and backs race. How did the first couple of loops go for you?

34:27.88
Hilary Spires
Yeah, so I was a little bit nervous because, I mean, the talk even before the race was like, whoa, the woman’s field is really good. I mean, they were kind of doing those shout outs before the race.

34:42.67
Alyssa
I love them so much, but the whole killing time where they’re like actively naming people in the race is like, maybe we just talk about how pretty it is.

34:42.98
Hilary Spires
and

34:53.02
Alyssa
Yeah.

34:55.71
Hilary Spires
So I mean, you were there and I was telling everybody like, oh, I’m so stoked. My friend’s probably gonna break the record. Like I was stoked on that. But historically when you look at the times, if you’re a competitive person, like, okay, so disclaimer.

35:11.76
Hilary Spires
The whole thing is, can I get ready to run a Hunter Myler in nine months? But then training starts to go well. And I’m pretty competitive. And it’s like looking at the times from previous years. And then it’s like, hmm, actually, how well can I do in this race?

35:24.44
Hilary Spires
And like that started to percolate in my mind and like gain traction. So then, all of a sudden, it’s like, who else is there? like What’s this going to look like?

35:35.66
Hilary Spires
um And I was kind of thinking like, oh.

35:37.07
Alyssa
And this is why we’re friends because I was like, cause I would start, up I, at first it was like, Oh, I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna race, you know, it’s going to be so great.

35:47.88
Alyssa
The whole family. And then I got texts that were like, well, what about this girl? What about that girl? What about this time? And I was like, Oh, she’s in it. Like the competitive nature. You’re too competitive not to.

35:58.52
Alyssa
And I love that.

35:58.60
Hilary Spires
what yeah um

36:01.13
Alyssa
But sorry, go ahead.

36:02.25
Hilary Spires
Yeah No, and that’s always the fun part of it I think I said in my recap race recap to the Friday before the race hundred times worse than the actual race like I will take physical pain over the like Anxiety of looking around the room and being like she looks fast.

36:15.76
Hilary Spires
She looks fast which means nothing

36:16.61
Alyssa
Okay, all of the women looked so fit.

36:21.38
Hilary Spires
so far and like It was insane and they all had like full body Lycra like suits on and then there’s you and you’re like leopard print pants and I was like this is funny.

36:21.54
Alyssa
It was insane.

36:29.97
Hilary Spires
I didn’t know you. I would never be worried but tables will turn. um Yeah, like everybody looked super fit and then they start doing that naming thing and there’s three people that have been there and they’ve all been on the podium before and they’ve all done the route before and like we’ve kind of talked about a lot. There’s so much to be learned about that route and how to improve on it. And then like, oh, this person was chosen to come because they’re fat fast. And then I believe there was somebody that has one western state there but ended up having an injury and it’s just coming back so like that person obviously has the potential to be crazy fast and then Mercedes had Justin Leadville so she had some great experience right under her belt. So first lap I was like I want to start near the front but I also

37:17.60
Hilary Spires
I haven’t run longer than like 60K in two and a half years because I’ve been pregnant maybe longer, maybe three years, which is only like 35 or 36 miles.

37:24.31
Alyssa
Mm hmm.

37:30.68
Hilary Spires
so but cautious and you took off knew that was gonna happen and Candice and Andrea and like one other girl took off and I was like do I go with them I don’t think so and because it’s an out-and-back I could keep track and so what I would do is when I would see them I would count the minutes until I got to the aid station knowing like taking in the uphill and downhill and being like okay they’re Four minutes ahead which feels very short but in the race like you can’t see them because the forest is so dense So you think you have a big gap?

38:02.42
Alyssa
yeah

38:03.82
Hilary Spires
You know what I mean? um And loop one was fine. It was what it was. It was like super cool to see the course for the first time um My feet started to have issues Immediately partly because of my taper injury.

38:11.20
Alyssa
Yeah.

38:19.05
Hilary Spires
I hadn’t worn running shoes in forever and they had really softened and

38:22.63
Alyssa
Great point! Yeah, I didn’t even think of that.

38:24.75
Hilary Spires
Yeah, because normally what I do is like just all the runs, I’m wearing those same shoes to keep the calluses and all the gross stuff, but they have gotten quite wimpy. Um, and I got to the first aid station and like, you don’t need to drop off the bag. And I’m like, I do, I need to lube my feet better. And she was like, Oh no, because we’re six miles in. Um, but like I say on my podcast all the time, diaper cream, the best you can find it’s for moisture. um And then after the first lap, I switched into some toe socks, which really, really saved me. um But I came in at like 4: 45, which is like very far behind where you were, but was within 10 minutes of all of the other ladies or so.

39:05.00
Alyssa
That’s a good yeah That’s a really good loop.

39:07.79
Hilary Spires
Well, I thought it was perfectly paced. like It didn’t feel hard. It didn’t feel um super fast. It felt like an adventure long run pace, which was kind of where I wanted to be um on the first loop. And I was like, OK, great. The second loop, I got into some trouble. So I have, which is way too early to get into trouble, I have this thing. It’s called slip rib syndrome. And I actually just saw a doctor this morning because it’s to the point now where I’m looking for surgical solutions so i’ve had it for 20 years and it’s getting way worse and i think a combination of the heat and um the fact that i did have a baby nine months ago made it act up a lot earlier than i thought so what happens is when i’m in power hiking position because you’re bent over um my like third rib up on the right side dislocates and i don’t know if you’ve ever had a dislocated rib or even a cracked rib or anything it is

40:06.53
Hilary Spires
horrendously painful and you can’t breathe. So I had in my mind, this is going to happen probably at four. And usually I have to run two or three hours with it, but it’ll be longer this time, but I can deal with it. I didn’t think it was going to happen so early. And my mind started to be like, Oh, you can’t feel this for 20 more hours. And I wouldn’t have been able to. um So that played with my brain quite a bit. And I actually Wait. No. Okay. So that started to worry me. So I was thinking about that. And then on the second climb, Nuano, that’s how you say it, right? Came out of there and it’s quite a bit steeper and it like fully came out and I couldn’t breathe. And I had to do that climb with one pole actually behind my back, like holding the rib into place. And I was like, okay, I’m just… it’s going to get cooler. So what I think was happening, why I mentioned the heat, is that my muscles might have been cramping a little bit in my back, which caused it to pull out faster as well. um But usually I have poles because it keeps me more upright and if I had them but still I wouldn’t like to get it to stay in. um So then we got back after lap two and

41:20.94
Hilary Spires
It was 4 PM, so my goal was if I could do the first two loops in 10 hours, that’s great. But I was like, I just lost probably 20 minutes on that loop because of my rib. And it started to like mentally mess with me more than I thought it would, which is super frustrating because normally my mental toughness is my thing.

41:33.44
Alyssa
Yeah.

41:40.87
Hilary Spires
So I think I was also getting angry at myself for letting this bother me, but feeling like you do all this work and this stupid injury that has nothing to do with fitness. is like getting in my way. OK, so then here’s the other part of it. I had this little bag with some Advil and salt tabs in it that I was like, I’m not going to take, or sorry, Tylenol, I’m not going to take it till the end of the race. But I was like, I need it now. So I’m going to take it. But Baker was there, my sweet little crew boss. And he gave me a little note that I told him his only job was to make sure that I do not leave the aid station without my headlamp.

42:19.09
Hilary Spires
And so he gave me a note that said, take your headlamp. Um, so I gave him a big hug and I didn’t want to ignore him. I wanted to interact with him because he was there. So we did. And then I realized I had left my headlamp on the ground and I was like, Oh man, I’m not super focused on this. And I liked to put it in my bag and everything was great. And then I got halfway up hogs back and was like, okay, I need Tylenol and I need a salt pill. And I didn’t have the bag with me. And I was like,

42:47.85
Hilary Spires
Like if I go back now, it’s 40 minutes maybe, like to go all the way down because it’s super technical and then all the way back up.

42:51.20
Alyssa
Yeah. yeah

42:55.02
Hilary Spires
It’s like, it’s just not worth it. Like maybe I can get some um painkillers at the first aid station. And I got there and they were like, no, not in our scope of practice, blah, blah, blah.

43:06.32
Hilary Spires
And I was like, okay, that’s fine. that leg actually wasn’t bad because I was like, I’m not, I’m not doing like a super slow loop again because in my mind loop two was so bad. Um, and I actually closed the gap a little bit on the two of the women in front of me.

43:23.87
Hilary Spires
And then there were also two women behind me that really picked up the pace and they were within like two or three minutes. So that middle front part of the women’s pack was kind of crazy already.

43:34.50
Alyssa
Oh yeah, all I could think when I was watching that kind of event was, oh my god, I’m so glad I’m not caught up in that because that is really stressful how close all of you were.

43:34.62
Hilary Spires
Um,

43:43.44
Hilary Spires
Yeah. Okay.

43:47.35
Alyssa
Yeah.

43:47.73
Hilary Spires
Yeah, but then on one hand, I was like, I am in enough pain now that all I wanna do is finish this race. So they like carrying where other people are completely gone and in lap three. So I was like, okay, the sun’s gonna go down. Like maybe my back muscles were loose a little bit. They weren’t, like I ended up, loop three ended up being like the absolute worst. At one point I had to lie down on the trail on my back and just like on a rock and just like breathe with my rib back in place for a little bit and I was crying and looking at like the canopy and just being like I’m just not gonna quit but I’m not even halfway I don’t think and this is like just horrendous pain um and the other weird part of it is that my bedtime is like nine ish

44:42.48
Hilary Spires
which is pretty early. So with the time change, that was 7 p.m., Hawaii time. And this has never happened to me before. So it had just gotten dark. My need to have a nap was out of control.

44:54.34
Hilary Spires
And at that point, we’d only been running for 13 hours. I’ve run for over 13 hours a billion times. I’ve never had this.

44:58.93
Alyssa
Yeah.

45:00.06
Hilary Spires
So physically completely fine, but this like, well, other than my rib, like, I mean fitness wise, fitness wise, fine, feet phenomenal.

45:04.14
Alyssa
Yeah the rib, yeah.

45:09.45
Hilary Spires
back pain 10 out of 10 would rather literally have a baby and I didn’t have drugs for that. um And then I need to sleep. So I was like lying in the dirt with my eyes closed with my ribbon just like just go get Annie, who I don’t know, but she’s gonna pace me through loop four, and maybe some company will be nice. So I found her, and I had told her I would be in around 9 p.m., but it was closer to 9.40, and I was like, I’m so sorry, you had to wait for me for 40 minutes. I’m so sorry, and she’s like, you’re fine. The other women just left the aid station, relax. But in my mind, I was like, I’ve effed this up because I laid on the trail.

45:48.50
Hilary Spires
And at that point, I liked taking the Tylenol and I don’t like to recommend that as a good thing to do, but it was like, otherwise it’s not happening.

45:48.64
Alyssa
yeah

45:55.12
Alyssa
Yeah.

45:57.59
Hilary Spires
Um, and that really, really helped. And then, yeah, then we started loop four. I’ll pause for a second. Cause I feel like that was a really long ramble.

46:07.70
Alyssa
No, that’s it, I love it. it’s a It’s so fun to hear everyone’s experience because you have your own and then just have no idea what’s happening other than like glimpses because you’re crossing back and forth and like every time I saw you it was like she’s doing great like wow because I did notice you had moved up a couple of times I was like oh yeah she’s closing it um but yeah how are you doing for time yeah

46:35.04
Hilary Spires
right now oh yeah i’m good he’s so

46:36.17
Alyssa
yeah Okay. Um, so yeah, let’s get into four and five and how you finished that up. Also, spoiler alert, Hillary did amazing.

46:47.27
Alyssa
She came in fourth with every bit of this all happening. And yeah, you’ve, it’s just like a podium is happening. I can feel it, but continue four or five.

46:58.27
Hilary Spires
right now. Oh yeah, I’m good. I feel like any other year that would have been on the podium, but like had to have the record breaker out in front taking that first spot. Um, so I know I’m fit enough that I’m going to close this race strong. So if I could just get through lap four, it’s going to be fine. Um, so taking the Tylenol, but it would like work for a little bit. And then as soon as it would stop working, it was like.

47:24.61
Hilary Spires
oh I can’t breathe and I’m gonna die. So Annie would be like oh yeah we’re at a great pace and then she would look back and I was like dying again. So um had to kind of rely on the painkillers a little bit too much and Steve actually popped my rib back into place like really nicely at one point like deep and he was like that was super disgusting um but it gave me enough of relief to like at least have a little bit of fun again for a bit um and so Loop four, I was like, here’s my plan.

47:53.76
Hilary Spires
I’m going to climb as strong as I can, because my climbing legs feel great. And I’m just going to try to jog the flats and the downhills. And like that sort of takes care of the whole thing. like Just as long as there’s no really wimpy parts of this race, we’re going to be fine.

48:06.41
Hilary Spires
And my loops, three, four, and five, were all really close. like I think my last two laps were within like two minutes of each other. um So yeah, I mean, not actually.

48:14.58
Alyssa
ice

48:16.62
Hilary Spires
They were like five, maybe 10 minutes. But still, pretty close. um and going into at the end of loop four I was really dizzy and my back pain was still really bad and I was sort of like for a second 80 miles is good enough and steve and annie were like no it’s not and I was like okay okay okay so she

48:34.46
Alyssa
Nice!

48:42.03
Alyssa
Got it, yeah!

48:43.93
Hilary Spires
Yeah. And I was like, I just need to lay on my face again for like two minutes and just let the pain inside for a second because it’s like somebody stabbing you in the back. It’s just like you, you get to a point where you’re like, ah, can’t feel this anymore.

48:57.58
Hilary Spires
So we got back out and Annie was not going to pace me for loop five, but she was like, let me just get you back out there. And then, you know how like on the connector, you can come back down pipes at the end.

49:09.08
Alyssa
Yeah.

49:10.42
Hilary Spires
So she just kind of got me going. And then I was like, you know what? like I feel great. This is the party lap. Let’s just see if I can close the gap on anybody in front of me. um And then that ended up being one of my strongest laps. And all I did was every time I got to a segment or like a leg, just being like, let’s make this the best that you run all day. like There’s no point in having any energy left again. And I passed the woman who was in fourth.

49:36.38
Hilary Spires
And she had run a really strong race, but it looked like she was kind of in some pain at that point. um And then I knew, I saw Candice and I could see that she wasn’t feeling great, but that she was still quite far ahead of me. In hindsight, had I pushed a little sooner, it might’ve been a closer race because she started loop five, two and a half hours in front of me and ended it.

49:59.62
Hilary Spires
an hour in front of me. So put it in like an hour and a half just on that last loop. So I’m like, oh, too bad there wasn’t a sixth loop because then we would have been fine. um But she started a lot harder than I did. So it’s like a juggle, like not wasting any time on the start, but um equally pacing yourself, right? So I think part of that is the experience. She’s done the route eight or the course eight times. This is my first time. There are so many lessons to learn. So on one hand, it was like,

50:27.51
Hilary Spires
Yeah, this stuff happened and it wasted a couple of hours on dealing with it for sure. But the controllables, like we talked about before, like my fitness, my feet um were all really good. So I was really happy with that. And then I was just stoked to finish the race like that. I guess when it was, there was definitely a point where I was like, Oh, I’ve already failed. Like I’ve already blown up, blown up. I texted my husband and was like,

50:51.25
Hilary Spires
i’ not I don’t even know if I’m going to make cutoffs. And he’s like, are you delusional. So I ended up sub 30, which was my kind of second goal.

50:56.25
Alyssa
Yeah.

51:00.39
Hilary Spires
um And yeah, I think that the aid stations and the other people and seeing everybody really was more helpful than I thought it would be as well.

51:11.70
Alyssa
You know, it’s such an interesting piece of it because on the one hand from a competitor’s side, it can feel really daunting to be like, I’m going to see the people that I’m racing against that many times.

51:24.41
Alyssa
Like, do I really want that? But then from just the camaraderie piece, I find it super helpful. Um, and it, yeah.

51:31.23
Hilary Spires
Yeah and Yeah, it was just more fun than I thought. um Because you saw you’re not paying attention to your own body for that time, right?

51:41.07
Alyssa
Yeah.

51:42.23
Hilary Spires
Yeah, and even the men and stuff that I had met at like the pre-race briefing, and there were some of them where we were kind of leapfrogging each other the whole time.

51:42.81
Alyssa
Yeah, totally.

51:50.98
Hilary Spires
And it was fun to see them and like to call out to each other. And yeah, it was really cool, that aspect of the race.

51:57.04
Alyssa
Yeah, no it’s probably one of my, almost one of my favorite parts of it, which is, yeah, surprising. um So Hilary, I know you have a child who’s going to be waking up soon. Thank you for joining us. Do you want to plug your stuff? And I’ll add it to the show notes as well.

52:16.71
Hilary Spires
Yeah, that would be awesome. So if you come over to a trail running on a pod, I don’t know when this comes out, but we just chatted with Alyssa about her. Focus on getting the record. And that’s a super fun episode. And what else you can find on Instagram at trail running women pod. Um, that’s pretty new. So, um, it’s not super great yet, but it will be better. And then personally, I’m just at hell sport 55. And yeah, I love following along. So reach out if anybody wants to connect over racing or kids or all that stuff.

52:50.79
Alyssa
Yeah, well you’re definitely my, ah I look up to you a lot in many ways, but also like who I hope to be as a mom, so keep being awesome.

53:01.70
Hilary Spires
Aw.

53:02.84
Alyssa
And yeah, I ah definitely hope I’m half as cool as you are one day.

53:09.44
Hilary Spires
Well, thank you.

53:09.55
Alyssa
One day we’ll get there.

53:10.46
Hilary Spires
I just had this sp flash forward. I’m like, one day we’ll run hurt when we’re like 60 and our kids can pace us.

53:15.53
Alyssa
Okay, I would love that. Honestly, I was like, you know, I think I’m going to take next year off from her, but like, I’ll be back for sure.

53:22.71
Hilary Spires
Totally, totally.

53:22.90
Alyssa
But I kind of just want to do it for, I really want, not that it wasn’t fun, but I’m always like, I want to do it where I just eat like all the aid stations and food because it’s really good and like not be, yeah.

53:30.86
Hilary Spires
yeah Yes, yes, an experience. the right Yeah, my husband is a mid-packer and he’s like, it’s a different vibe back here. It’s a great time.

53:40.38
Alyssa
Yeah, it seems, yeah, I was passing someone who was like having a, they were like lovely power hiking up the hill, like they’re having a great time.

53:51.18
Alyssa
And I was like, I have to run. I would just like to hike with them. I’m like, that sounds fun.

53:57.68
Hilary Spires
Yeah, many different ways to experience that race for sure.

53:58.04
Alyssa
So yeah, I never waste all my effort, but it would be so fun to do that. I mean, all right, we’re 60, we’re doing it, but

54:07.45
Hilary Spires
Awesome, this is it.

54:09.37
Alyssa
Awesome. Hilary, thank you so much for being on. ah Thank you for listening to the Alyssa podcast. If you can rate, review, subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, we would appreciate it and go check out trail running women podcast. It’s not just one, but a community. We are Uphill Athlete.