00:02.62

Alyssa

Welcome to the Uphill Athlete podcast. My name is Alyssa Clark and I will be your host today. I’m stoked to bring on a familiar voice. We have Martin Zhor, one of the coaches at Alyssa to talk about his most recent climb of Manaslu, which is an 8,000-meter peak. It’s an incredible accomplishment. And we are just stoked to hear more about your experiences, the lead up and all the good stuff. So thank you, Martin, for being on.

 

00:39.52

Martin

Thanks for bringing me on and I’m glad to be here.

 

00:43.85

Alyssa

Yeah, well. I know that we have talked about this.  Actually, we were together in Chamonix right before you left for this trip, but this has been something that  has been kind of a long term project for you is climbing an 8,000 meter peak. So how long have you been kind of pursuing this dream?

 

01:10.34

Martin

So I guess that’s coming back to my childhood where I started to dream about 8000 years reading books ah from Reinhold Messner and some old like generation of climbers older generation of climbers ah from back in the day when I was a kid that day it was in the 80s. So ah we had books also from some really strong Czechoslovak expeditions doing some really rad expeditions in the highest mountains in the world.

 

01:39.48

Martin

So I guess it all started there, but then it took me a really kind of long path, a long journey to get here until Manaslu where I was a couple of months ago.

 

01:50.56

Martin

ah So, ah yeah, long journey, but also there was pretty much a very long time where I didn’t even think that it would be possible. It’s really financially, it’s really tough for most people, I think, to make that decision to go. and ah But otherwise, I think physically I was ready already before that dream was there.

 

02:13.38

Martin

But I guess it’s also good to take some time, have the time to prepare, and really when you’re ready, yeah you just go for it. Such a long journey.

 

02:25.15

Alyssa

Yeah, well, I think those are often the best because ah there’s it’s really worth it and you know you’re really ready.  So what do I guess ? Can you? I think people know you as a coach, they know of your education background, but what is your journey as an athlete that led you to being ready to take on Manaslu?

 

02:48.25

Martin

Well, I started as a runner. So when I was a kid or maybe 12 years old, I started to run some competitions in middle distance, cross country. So quite a short distance, let’s say, but it was still endurance. So I always liked endurance challenges, ah exploring, I guess, exploring what I can do. ah Whenever there was a hail mountain, I sort of, I looked up, I was just kind of driving myself to I really want to run up that hill, like the physical effort of going uphill is just something in me. I don’t know what it is, but I really like it. And it’s until now, very much. So I guess that’s where I started. So maybe like a mountain endurance athlete, I have always been to some extent.

 

03:39.09

Martin

But I started with the middle distance running, which I think gave me a really good base. ah So ah afterwards I kind of quit the competitions and then I moved towards climbing, more alpinism, moved to Chamonix eventually, so started to spend more time at high altitude.  Then with my work when I go to the Middle East, which I already talked about before, it was really important for me, I think. ah One, it was a job, but also the experience, watching the other people, how they deal or not deal well with altitude.

 

04:13.44

Martin

 And then also just having that long-term acclimatization, which I think it’s kind of, I’m kind of a hybrid between people who go to altitude sometimes a couple of weeks per year, maybe. ah And then of course the share bus or the populations that live at high altitude for generations. So they are, they have the genetic adaptations. So I’m somewhere and maybe in the middle where I really spend somewhere around 10 years. I slept on, slept up on that left ah maybe I think I was counting at maybe somewhere like 250 days, 280 nights actually. So I think it really made a difference. And I quit that job two years ago. ah So for me, the last couple of years were interesting. I was really curious how much my body will keep some of those adaptations, because that’s kind of tricky then when you go to physiology. And it’s like, what is actually that? Like what do you keep and what do you not keep? and

 

05:08.12

Martin

 So, yeah, I went to some mountains since then. I was in Amadablam a couple of times in Nepal last year. I went to Pakistan. We can talk about that more.  But, yeah, now it was Manaslu, so almost two years afterwards. For me, it was really interesting to test myself. But actually, back to your question, I guess, ah I would consider myself mountain athlete and I keep racing so I do the vertical kilometers or double vertical kilometers just stay really running up the hill as fast as you can.

 

05:42.74

Martin

 And for me, well, it’s fun, it’s brutal, but it’s fun and it’s a great way for me to stay sharp in in that fitness and basically covering all those factors that then I can transfer easy to the mountaineering or speed mountaineering in my case where I try to climb those mountains at in this style to start at the bottom and get to the top as fast as I can.

 

06:12.39

Alyssa

No, I love that. And I know that you didn’t start out by just saying, Hey, I’m gonna go try to do a speed record on an 8,000 meter peak. What were some of the peaks that you have  used as kind of stepping stones and check marks along the way?

 

06:33.51

Martin

Yeah, I guess it started some, maybe it’s been eight years almost or where I yeah I had some injury before so it was I was kind of stuck but started to get out of there and really got hungry for some big objectives. So first it was in the Alps.

 

06:52.31

Martin

Ah, which is pretty competitive because many athletes, mountain athletes, go test themselves on those mountains and set really amazing FKTs, so it’s quite a difficult field.

 

07:05.42

Martin

 But I think I had some really good times. For me, it was just a maybe ah eye-opening that I can be in maybe in that category as well.  And I think also to my advantage, I think the acclimatization was the defining ah factor. Because as a runner, you know I’m nowhere near the elite field. I kind of sometimes get to the podiums of those vertical races. But it’s totally okay for me. This is really just the fun part for me.

 

07:35.11

Martin

But anyway, it started for me in the Alps. I did some linkups for myself. The most ah defining project was the three smits. I called it the three summits project. So I linked Monteroza, Mont Blanc and Gran Paradiso in one push. So it took about 29 hours plus some driving between the departing departure points in the valley. But the whole project was about 100 kilometers.

 

08:02.13

Martin

So for me, it was really eye opening because it also took me about a year and a half of very specific preparation to be ready for this one. And I still really keep it close to my heart. It’s really important for me.

 

08:17.33

Martin

And actually, from there, now it’s going to be actually a five-year anniversary. I went to Aconcagua, the highest mountain in America, and it’s close to 7,000 meters.

 

08:27.86

Martin

So, a completely different category. oh welcome Not completely, but much higher than anything I had climbed before.

 

08:33.73

Alyssa

It’s high. Yeah.

 

08:34.95

Martin

Yeah, it’s high.

 

08:36.37

Alyssa

I truly, yeah, like to forget or not comprehend until I was in Cotopaxi like, wow, Aconcagua was really high.

 

08:44.20

Martin

Yeah, it is. so it’s ah it’s a solid mountain. Luckily, it’s not technically so difficult. I mean, there are more routes, of course, on the mountain, but the classic, the normal route, is not technically difficult. So you really can go for it. You really can challenge yourself and try the speed, right? So that’s that’s why I went there in December 2019.

 

09:11.02

Martin

and I managed to get the record back then. So the one from Plaza de Mulas base camp to the top. So I believe it was around 2,600 meters elevation. And again, and then about 10 kilometers away. So yeah, just kind of really good for me. Eye opening again, I climbed the mountain, well, three times actually to the third attempt was actually then the record.

 

09:37.34

Martin

That was actually not the plan, but then I was still going for a test and was planning to do another day, but it actually happened. So yeah, that was really important because while I do have the best time sort of in the world, it doesn’t happen every day. So it was very…

 

09:57.25

Martin

Very cool experience and since then I went to different mountains. I went to Big Lanyan and Kyrgyzstan, ah ah some others, but then mainly I think the big one was last year when I went to Broad Peak in Pakistan, which is 8,000 meters.

 

10:15.54

Martin

8,050 meters high. So that was my first encounter with 8,000 meters, but I never got there because last year, at least the beginning of the season in Pakistan, wasn’t easy. There’s no conditions. So we just didn’t get the window, the wetter window. I mean, so physically, I think I was ready. I was, I was sharp, but it felt really good.

 

10:40.48

Martin

but sometimes while on these mountains you have to accept that also there are factors that you have no control over and that’s also okay.

 

10:53.63

Alyssa

Yeah, I mean, I would say that that is, I mean, that’s such a difference in the trail running world and ah so many other spaces is that truly so much of a factor in being able to do this is the weather windows and the conditions, et cetera. I mean, it’s just such a limiting factor that I think so many other sports don’t have to be considered at all.

 

11:21.95

Martin

It is, and it is.

 

11:22.05

Alyssa

or very little.

 

11:24.27

Martin

Well, it turned out that the Manaslu also wasn’t easy, but I guess we will get there. So it’s really, yeah, important to realize. And then of course that is this like risk management, right?

 

11:37.60

Martin

So you’re investing a lot. And I think, I didn’t realize until I got back from Manaslu now basically in October, last month where I was like, wow. ah this was ah This was a lot. And when you go back, when you go through the experience, you just don’t realize, you just do every day what you can do. You sort of used to go out and anyway for training. So you just train on an 8,000 meter peak all of a sudden. But, you know, you just try to stay in your kind of comfort zone within the discomfort and ah try to try to do your best. But when I got back home, I was like, wow, like I actually, it took a lot out of me. it ah And the effort, the

 

12:18.46

Martin

of course the the whole kind of physical experience but then of course the finances so I took a month out of my life basically and a lot of risks and stuff so yeah it’s a it’s a big deal I think and And then you go there and ah you know you can just get shut down by the weather. And there is nothing you can do. And that’s what happened in my previous expeditions. And so, for example, two years ago in summer, I was on Piclanyin, which is a 7,000-meter peak. So sort of a step up for me from after I came to Aconcagua, maybe 200 meters higher.

 

12:55.86

Martin

ah definitely a glaciated mountain, like a different kind of terrain. ah But the yeah conditions were not easy but mainly because it was just so hot. So the conditions on the glacier were just really strange and not very safe for being on solo climbing. and But also I got sick just at the beginning. So the whole yeah the whole plan just went out of the window and you know I just had to stay in the base camp for a week or almost 15 days.

 

13:25.33

Martin

and basically had like three days and before going home so I just went for it and I went to the base camp, the actual advanced base camp there and I tried so I went to straight up to as high as I could to acclimatize, came back rested one day and then just went for for ah for a push and I had to turn around 200 meters away from the smit Just a quick decision, but very clear that I just had to go home.

 

13:51.41

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

13:53.05

Martin

like I had a headache, I had run out of water because it was so hot. And I just also had to go all the way down to ah the base camp on that glacier, which was really crevassed.

 

14:01.85

Alyssa

Mm

 

14:05.07

Martin

And it was really warm, so I was really worried about that.

 

14:06.63

Alyssa

-hm.

 

14:08.70

Martin

And I she just now felt that it was not the day to go. And so basically I went home after. It was really a run out of motivation. and So anyway, different experiences. And so,  you know, that’s also happens and and sometimes it happens more often than the successful ones where you actually reach the smit. But actually, that’s also a point where, you know, I still learned something. I still got something out of the experience. And of course, the success is is definitely tied to something.

 

14:40.25

Martin

But for me, I’m trying to kind of approach it, say, OK, like, ah let’s take the whole experience in and learn a thing as an athlete, as a coach, as someone who’s really interested in altitude physiology. So, you know, there’s so much to learn. But anyway, ah we as athletes, we definitely want to to make it up there. So  but again, no we don’t control everything out there.

 

15:07.32

Alyssa

We definitely don’t. I do want to make a point as well of what style you are doing these climbs in because I think that might not be obvious to everyone is that you are doing this solo, unguided, and without oxygen.

 

15:24.59

Alyssa

So Martin is taking on a much different approach than most people when they are going on some type of an expedition.

 

15:24.66

Martin

Yes.

 

15:35.53

Alyssa

theyre yeah I guess ah if you want to speak to that.

 

15:38.78

Martin

Yes, with pleasure, I think ah we can sort of put it into categories of the mountains. the When it gets above 7,000 meters, it gets particularly hard. the It’s really the effect of that altitude on the body is ah is ah really kind of strong and the impact of it. it just gets difficult. And especially when it comes to 8,000 meter peaks, so people usually use the supplemental oxygen.

 

16:08.93

Martin

ah to be able to get to the top safely and not get sick, altitude sick. right So there’s sort of this this style. And then  I choose to do style without the supplemental oxygen. So I choose to kind of go on my own. Also, of course, that affects the choice of the routes that I can do solo because ah you know I have my limits, of course, as a climber and also the way I want to take risks. And also I really am kind of a mountain runner slash

 

16:42.61

Martin

climbers So I want to just really test myself and the speeds to get up that that mountain. So, ah you know, the usually the choice is pretty clear. It’s on the normal route, but it can, it it depends. Maybe in the future I find something which which is interesting. It doesn’t need to be necessarily on the established route ah with with fixed lines often, because nowadays pretty much every 8,000 meter peak has fixed lines, at least on the normal route. So all the way. so You know, that’s how it is these days. But yeah, so this this is the style I choose. And  not that I’m against climbing with my friends or partners, but specifically for this, I think what makes the most sense is to go on my own, to go solo, ah because, well, I need to set my own pace. And there are so much going on up there that, you know, you cannot plan it. Like you really have to wait, like how much, how my body will react to different levels. And yeah usually there is this threshold that I hit

 

17:41.16

Martin

with my also my acclimatization rotations where I just hit that and maybe it’s the the threshold is a kind of wrong word but a certain and level where you just really start to feel it and so then I go through it and I choose how for how long to acclimatize right and then I come back down to recover and then I go again and I go higher and this level will be higher this time and so as that’s my approach also to acclimatization so also the next the next kind of ah

 

18:12.37

Martin

and strategy I use this strategy to to stay in the base camp, always. Pretty much always. I don’t use the high camps to acclimatize, as most clients do oh clients and that most ah client climbers do.

 

18:18.87

Alyssa

Okay.

 

18:24.28

Martin

because well ah why Why do they use the camps? Because why it takes a while to get up there.  It takes a while to get up there. and ah you need to bring your gear higher so you can then go another stage on the mountain, right? So but to to go back down to base camp is almost unthinkable for most people because you just spend too much energy. It’s just too taxing. So I prefer to stay very light. So then then it comes also to and my gear. ah gear I choose choose the gear that is very light, that allows me also to go as fast as I can. I study still stay relatively safe.

 

19:04.17

Martin

ah And so basically approach the mountain in this style. And so, of course, there might be limits on big mountains, of course, then it gets colder and colder on the high mountains, especially 8000ers.

 

19:16.65

Martin

So that there’s a lot behind it. There was also what time do do I go because during the night it’s of course colder, but it that might be safer. There will be less people, especially on those kind of bottlenecks on the mountain. ah So of course I want to avoid those. So everything comes at at a price. we yeah Anyway, the that’s a huge topic, like choice of gear and and stuff. But anyway, like from the basics, also, I think that some people were really sort of raising eyebrows when they saw me in the base camp of Manaslu now. And I was saying, well, i’m not I didn’t even bring my tent because, well, I can always use some tents up there in the bay in the in the high camps. But basically saying, I’m not going to sleep up there. I will always start from the bottom and I will come back to the base camp. So they were really worried about me. I was like, is this guy kind of crazy or is this possible?

 

20:10.37

Martin

And I was sort of like, maybe, maybe they are right. But I mean, I’ve tried this before on the lower mountains.

 

20:16.83

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

20:17.28

Martin

so So far, so far, it worked. And so but I was pretty confident, you know, and but yeah, of course, then you’re really are going much higher.

 

20:19.85

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

20:27.00

Martin

So the effect of that altitude, I never really tried before, right. So to be clear, until Yeah, my highest point until this year was ah when I was on Broad Peak and I reached Camp 3, which was last year at least 7100 meters. So that but that was my highest point so far. I didn’t get any higher last year. So this is how, you know, with this knowledge, I went to to Manaslo this September.

 

20:58.19

Alyssa

Yeah, and I guess kind of to jp right into it. ah And then I don’t know, maybe we’ll go back after that. But this is something that’s really interesting. How do you manage your mind when you are getting that high because you are I mean, when you have a group of of people, you’re going as a team, you have people who have varying levels of how they’re doing, etc, feeling probably a guide to pay attention, but you are completely responsible for your own brain. How do you, how do you manage it? What are you thinking? How are you feeling?

 

21:33.26

Martin

So this is interesting because I think what i’m what I learned on Manaslu was that the mental aspect is very important. is really the the preparation can really help on different levels, so I can this i can tell more.

 

21:47.97

Martin

But I guess ah all the training that I’ve done in my life kind of led me to to go to Manaslu being prepared, I would say, to most scenarios, and then sort of prepare, be hopefully prepared also if something goes wrong, and something usually does, but it doesn’t necessarily need to.

 

22:03.61

Alyssa

listen

 

22:04.61

Martin

I think that’s what I noticed, actually, or so I really had a  ah hit like a bat bad moment after something actually I started to go down and I thought okay well it’s just decent not that I was kind of underestimating it but but my body maybe just ah I was really reflecting on this like what actually happened anyway I was really tired and I was like well like I’m kind of losing it here so I was like basically telling myself hey like you have to be focused now you’re not down yet you have to keep going

 

22:19.73

Alyssa

Right. Yeah.

 

22:35.86

Martin

Focus, focus, what’s going on. Is there anything I can do? And there was pretty much nobody on the mountain. There were like two people, I think, still climbing, but they were pretty far away. And at this point, I didn’t see them. So I was pretty much on my own. It was still 8100 meters. I was really like 50 meters below the smit. And so I think what happened was that there’s this decompression effect.

 

22:57.12

Martin

where your body is like, okay, well, now we’ve done the work. So the downhill should be relatively easy or at least much easier than the uphill. Well, guess what? I mean was ah a you know move going down at 8,000 meters, 100 specifically, right right there. Wow, it wasn’t easy at all. I was still getting out of breath, at least for a couple of hundred meters, but also because, well, I but i was pushing for almost 13 hours, so that’s the time it took me.

 

23:26.38

Martin

And I stayed on the smit for like 20 minutes, maybe. I don’t know exactly, but you know I stayed there. I just enjoy. and and But I guess, did the kind of like the I don’t know if it’s the mental or the physical, but something really let go. So I really had to stay focused and say, OK, I need to keep going. There was a point, and I honestly don’t remember if it was still going up or going down, where I sort of sat down and leaned like against my backpack, against the hill. And I think I just kind of fell asleep for five minutes, maybe. And I actually don’t know if it was five minutes, but there I was just like, woof okay, like maybe it’s time to go. And so that happened too. and It was relatively warm on the sun. So, you know, just to give people a context. But anyway, yeah, it was a point when, so when I was thinking about it the later,

 

24:19.30

Martin

I realized that most of the trainings that I do, whether it’s during running, trail running, exploring, whatever sport I’m doing. So sometimes it’s good to push like beyond this zone of comfort, right?

 

24:29.91

Martin

So I’m able to go for several hours usually every every day during the season you know that changes with my specific trainings, but I can do that. And I sometimes push a bit over that edge to kind of explore, okay, what happens if I really run out of water or run out of food, right?

 

24:44.78

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

24:46.17

Martin

And I think that training for adversity prepares you for those moments. and And but also most of the time, like really 99% I think of the time, I am in control. I know what’s going on in my body, I need to eat a bit more, maybe I come my legs are tired, but I’m fine. I i have our one hour left, so I’ll be fine. So and so I think that’s what I realized that up there,

 

25:10.31

Martin

And what happened was like, okay, actually, I was getting out of control of my own body. And and so that was a bit scary, I guess. and But ah luckily, yeah, I kept going. I also just didn’t have water. I ran out of.

 

25:24.62

Alyssa

Hmm.

 

25:24.85

Martin

water because well it was such a long push and anyway we can talk about the specifics but well anyway I had to just basically I saw the camp four which is the last camp on Manaslu so it’s ah several hundred meters below so I knew that I needed to just hold on for 45 minutes stay safe luck luckily then the terrain is quite okay you know it’s a snow slope but nothing super steep

 

25:28.48

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

25:51.27

Martin

So when I made it and I gave me water, so I saw it slowly but came back to life and ah and recovered. Because then I actually went but all the way back down, by the way, to to the base camp.

 

25:59.93

Alyssa

Excellent.

 

26:02.55

Martin

So still a very long way down.

 

26:03.19

Alyssa

Two base camp. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I do want to get into the specifics of what you carried because I think that is very interesting. But before we get there, I do want to back up to your, I guess, , we’ll start with why Manaslu. What drew you to that expedition in particular and mountain?

 

26:29.52

Martin

yeah Manaslu I guess is considered one of the easier 8000ers but I would like to maybe change that too because it might be really misleading ah for many people you know so I don’t think on 8000ers there are no easy picks but there are definitely those that you choose to start your journey

 

26:42.98

Alyssa

Yeah, I’m sure it is.

 

26:52.77

Martin

to to that category of mountains. So probably it comes to the choice of  also there’s a really good logistics, right? So it’s it’s really easy to get there. ah We just chose to just get into the base camp straight away but with the helicopter. So it’s an hour flight from Kathmandu.

 

27:11.60

Martin

and really skipped the acclimatization part, basically tracking the Manastal circuit, which what which people usually do to acclimatize, which I totally agree with.

 

27:11.78

Alyssa

Oh wow, okay.

 

27:23.04

Martin

I think it’s a good strategy. strategy and And so we skipped that because I just didn’t really have have the time. ah or didn’t want to and also I joined a group of Czech climbers so it’s my home country or I come from so ah through a sort of series of circstances ah I yeah i enjoyed joined them and so it was schooling a cool opportunity And Manaszlo has been sort of in my scope for a while. ah But yeah, I wasn’t really sure to be honest. I also made that decision basically two months ah before before the and before the trip. So relatively late, right? You definitely usually have some clarity about like your objectives, mountain objectives, and also the preparation. But ah in that sense, I was relatively confident.

 

28:13.55

Martin

 confident about my preparation because that was my racing season. ah So yeah, I felt that it was okay. Maybe then the next category or the the question was the acclimatization. But that’s that’s ah that’s maybe I can discuss more. But back to why Manaslu, I think it’s still what It’s supposed to be one of the easier ones technically,  and it wasn’t difficult so much, but actually this year was a big surprise for most people who know the mountain or even the expedition leaders, organizers. ah They never saw the mountain being so technical, especially between Camp 1 and Camp 2. You are crossing this glacier and so like Serac Field.

 

29:02.04

Martin

 So what happened was that usually there is this ice one ice wall that you have to climb but the rest is relatively okay easy ah inclined snow wall but this time it was basically four or five walls you had to climb and so of course there there was a fixed line but still it made it quite a funny funny part for me you have to really get to

 

00:03.52

Martin

I was using the fixed lines, by the way, even like with the speed climbing, I think it’s a kind of established that you know you’re climbing on the normal route. And i was as I was saying, the the all the normal routes now, they have the fixed line because there are so many people and some of them, they really require the use of the fixed line. So it’s just more simple to just fix it the whole way.

 

00:28.62

Martin

But I wasn’t necessarily using it the whole way, really kind of seeing the mountain as I was soloing. So I just clipped ah to the fixed line when there were crevasses or just kind of scary parts.

 

00:38.87

Martin

And you were definitely also, you didn’t see all the crevasses. Those that that you see, you can avoid them or be really careful that there are points where you kind of sank through.

 

00:46.22

Alyssa

yeah

 

00:48.65

Martin

right So yeah, there were definitely some sketchy points. And then the specifically that one that wall between Camp 1 and Camp 2. Well, not the wall. There were actually five walls, but maybe 20-meter climbs.

 

01:00.59

Martin

So yeah, it was pretty much one way to go, to ah to use the fixed line. Or I would really have to climb technically technically ice with two technical ice axes. So completely different keyer choice.

 

01:11.99

Martin

 So it didn’t really make sense.

 

01:13.37

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

01:14.31

Martin

So I was using the Jamar.  And so…

 

01:18.66

Alyssa

Okay.

 

01:18.62

Martin

there were a couple more ah points somewhere like on the head wall above the Camp 3 so somewhere around 7200 meters there were I think two ice walls but really short ones yeah but still like you know it was a It was a bit ah but technical on places.

 

01:35.29

Martin

So definitely not like a beginner break beginner mountain, but I still think that if people are ready, ah it can be it can be done. But I also think that when you prepare, ah when you prepare it’s it’s good to be aware of this.

 

01:49.28

Martin

ah If you’re not ready, if you don’t train upper body, for example, you’re just preparing for a long snow walk, ah you might be really surprised. So  that’s why I mentioned it.

 

01:58.72

Alyssa

Yeah, I do think that’s such a valid point across the board with how Our climate is changing  with with climate change that mountains that quote unquote are were or were easy are not easy anymore.  They’re, I think, providing a lot more challenge than what may be classically thought of. I mean, I can just say from a very, very different perspective, but Codapaxi, everyone thinks of it as kind of like just a hike up mountain. And the guides and also people had climbed it five or six times. We’re all saying it’s getting more and more technical.

 

02:42.20

Alyssa

it was the hardest route, they’d had it.  So things are really changing with conditions. And so definitely take some time to talk to guides, research, et cetera, because what might have been just you know easy, I’m saying this, you all can’t see the quotation marks, easy mountain, the routes are changing.

 

02:57.37

Martin

Hm. It’s true.

 

03:04.73

Alyssa

So just be very aware of that. So I think that’s a great point  to make.

 

03:08.28

Martin

It’s true. ah Basically, just to say that the same thing happened on on peak line, ah there is this ah point where there is a fixed line and and you have to climb this deep ice wall at the beginning of the ah where the mountain really gets deeper.

 

03:25.82

Martin

And that you that was not the case a couple of years ago. There used to be the sky race, like the highest race in the world, which really was something I was interested in doing, but that they don’t organize it anymore big for this reason.

 

03:41.12

Martin

It used to be basically a snowwall a snow hike, let’s say, and it’s not anymore, so have things are definitely changing.

 

03:41.94

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

03:49.76

Martin

and ah But and anyway, I mean, it it might be also to of the fact that, yeah, just ah randomly, the client glacier just moved. It was a bit of sketchy place there as well to kind of one camp tube. There was a slide of the Sarac or Sarac fall that it was like 50 meter wide. And I actually kind of hiked up, hiked down through it 45 minutes maybe before that. And I had then heard the noise.

 

04:16.48

Martin

came back up another day and I saw the huge debris of the oil launch. It was definitely a spot where I was really focused just to keep going, going, going, don’t stop, don’t stop. ah ah yeah that I think that was the most more scary part of the whole mountain.

 

04:36.98

Alyssa

Yeah. Oh, that’s wild. , I do want to touch on one last point of your lead up to Manaslu because we were together and I remember that there were quite a few obstacles that came up in uncertainties. So do you mind sharing a little bit about how, what, how kind of things were before you decided to go to Manaslu?

 

05:05.12

Martin

Sure, I can. So I guess I made the decision somewhere early July, I think. So two months to go. So ah deciding, I felt I felt good with the races. But then there was a point somewhere maybe late July, I went for this ah vertical kilometer race. And ah I think right afterwards, I got a bit sick, some virus infection, respiratory infection.

 

05:30.30

Martin

after two days i felt fine so went back to training but i just kind of felt discomfort since then ah around my chest so just really couldn’t figure it out i took a rest or a rest day or two but then i eventually went to see a doctor and i was really suspicious that i had some kind of meocarditis this this infection of the heart muscle or the tissues around your cardiac muscle So it was really scary because that kind of ill infection is is really serious for for anybody. ah So yeah, it’s kind of a nightmare. But yeah, I was just uncertain. ah The first test didn’t really reveal anything and basically recommendations were just take a week off, which was of course very

 

06:16.49

Martin

but Very difficult to do because I otherwise I felt fine. I didn’t have fever. I didn’t have any problems, but ah yeah, it’s just this weird uncomfortable feeling and I also taking one week off when you really are want to really do the big training before the mountain. ah Yeah, it was very frustrating,  but eventually.

 

06:36.93

Martin

I actually went to do like a big check with a cardiologist ah in my country, in Czech Republic, and they confirmed that everything was fine. So I kind of got that out of the of the table and I really felt felt fine afterwards, even though there was a bit of like a mental block there. So this is then in August, so maybe three, four weeks to go. And I went for this run.

 

07:04.50

Martin

ah with my wife and I was running uphill, funny, and just just stbled and hit hit the rock with my head and broke my finger. So completely random. i I think I never broken a finger in my life before or not really any fractures in my life, ah and honestly. So yeah, it was it was kind of a disaster. So I was running back down. I definitely to felt the pain as I had. This is not good. And so in my head, of course, accepting that I’m not going to Manaslu and well, I get my money back and all these questions.

 

07:41.51

Martin

But I got myself to the emergency and the doctor was like, well, yeah, there’s a bit of fracture, but it’s not correct like it’s cracked. You know what I mean? It’s not this kind of fracture. It was just this bit that was ah yeah, it was like tiny fissure in the bone.

 

07:57.58

Martin

And he basically taped two two fingers together, this broken one and the one next to it. To fix it, there was no cast necessary. And he said, well, you know, if you don’t need to climb with your fingers, like grip strength, if you’re not climbing with your ice axes, you should be okay. So I would i would say that you’re fine.

 

08:18.12

Martin

and actually whatever what was going on maybe mentally coming back to your or previous question ah about the mental side I think that was also an interesting point where I was sort of thinking is this like a universe telling me that I shouldn’t go like but That definitely can happen, right?

 

08:35.87

Martin

you you I definitely am someone who tries to listen listen to intuition you know and specifically in the mountains.

 

08:38.98

Alyssa

Oh yeah.

 

08:42.64

Martin

i get It really cans can save you in cases, so in situations. so So I was really asking myself that too, but also asking my wife and asking ah my my family or close friends.

 

08:56.06

Martin

But I also understood that this is something I need to answer for myself. ah Nobody can answer this for me. I know myself, I know what I’m going for. and It was a big objective, and I really felt like I wanted to go. I felt healthy, ah well, at this stage at least, except for the broken finger, but I felt kind of strong, healthy for for that challenge. Well, so I just decided, okay, like  I keep going. ah The finger actually, well, I still feel it now, actually three months later, but the it’s it’s pretty much healed. There was a point where

 

09:33.41

Martin

A couple of weeks later, I went to Mont Blanc and to for some altitude training ah just before leaving for Nepal. And I had to use two ice axes while coming to to climate change, the conditions in the Alps where you know in the end of August can be really difficult because all the snow is melted, so the glaciers are really dry and everything is icy.

 

09:57.21

Martin

ah So yeah, the normal route, which is normally like a snow hike or a very steep snow hike,

 

09:58.28

Alyssa

Thank you.

 

10:02.79

Martin

It was definitely a climb, so I had two axes and ah yeah was it was difficult. I couldn’t really fit the two-to-eight tapped fingers two into my glove, so it was a bit funky.  But still still like a know like nice nice challenge, ah but eventually ah didn’t really feel any and limiters when I was on the mountain, luckily, because really really there you you want to be in your top condition.

 

10:32.04

Alyssa

Yeah. Well, I think it was very interesting because I was around you and I was kind of like, Hey, Barton, I don’t know. It seems like a lot of things are maybe not lining up quite the way and you, I could tell you really wanted to go.

 

10:48.02

Alyssa

Cause you were like, yes, I acknowledge that, but I still believe this is the right decision. So yeah, you knew it. And I think that that’s, go ahead.

 

10:56.27

Martin

I think, yeah, thanks. no i’m I don’t, yeah, I don’t remember what was going on all those days, but there were a lot of doubts, but also I think coming back to, you learned your lessons, like the whole, your your all your career, you’re making decisions. So I guess, I guess that it was an interesting lesson for me to go through, right? Going through the doubts and really saying, okay,

 

11:24.75

Martin

giving yourself the clarity. Is this like, okay, this was just an accident and I can deal with this. Honestly, on the mountain, you’ll be pushing so hard and maybe you’ll break the finger up there.

 

11:35.41

Martin

Can you deal with that? you know Can you still go with the broken finger?

 

11:37.93

Alyssa

Yeah,

 

11:38.57

Martin

I mean, yeah, anything can happen anytime, but ah i’ll be I’ll be okay. I can do this. And so that was an interesting moment.

 

11:48.84

Martin

yeah

 

11:50.70

Alyssa

yeah and I also think it’s a great ah lesson in that things can be less than ideal, there can be a lot of bps and it can still go really well.

 

12:05.18

Alyssa

like You do not have to have a perfect buildup. i often When I actually have a pretty perfect buildup to something, I go, oh no, what’s going to happen?

 

12:14.19

Martin

Okay.

 

12:15.41

Alyssa

you know what so Because so often that’s where maybe you hit something within the race, but when you have those

 

12:15.87

Martin

Sure.

 

12:24.80

Alyssa

ups and downs and you’re able to deal with them and keep that that moment and that resolution and learn, as you said, like you could break your finger up on the mountain.

 

12:37.17

Alyssa

I think that’s actually when you’re most prepared, because you have dealt with those  those blips along the way. So yeah, I think.

 

12:49.10

Martin

I agree. I agree.

 

12:50.72

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

12:50.58

Martin

I think it’s the maybe like the acceptance where ah I can accept that, okay, as you say, the things are not ideal, but I can do this.

 

13:02.90

Martin

This is this it doesn’t doesn’t need to be a delimiter. But also knowing, yeah there again, there’s so much going on that already so much can to happen. You get to the mountain, you need to stay healthy, which actually turned out to be really challenging, by the way. ah right And so all the way to the smit, youre you really are trying to get all these obstacles. But it’s also, I’m going there willingly to to get this challenge done.

 

13:28.32

Martin

ah right and so and I guess that’s what happened and I was also maybe helping me with the acceptance where I was like not really tied to the outcome, meaning I really wanted to smit this time. I was like, okay, let’s take it day by day and let’s just go every day and just ah stay safe, be in flow, do what you can and you you can. you You know what to do. yeah Your body knows what to do.

 

13:52.30

Martin

I’m talking kind of about you know what I know about myself at that altitude So I think maybe that also gave me that confidence with my strategy for altitude And yeah, I just kind of forgot about the finger or completely after a because yeah, you just stay in in that zone and Go face the challenge

 

14:13.79

Alyssa

Yeah. So let’s get into the specifics of the mountain. Can you give us a little bit of an overview on your acclimatization strategy when you got there? And I just want to caveat this by saying Martin is a very specific athlete. He had very specific goals. So please, you know,

 

14:39.39

Alyssa

It’s very interesting, but do not. Disclaimer of like, this is not necessarily the way that you should do it. Actually, that you probably shouldn’t do it this way.

 

14:47.26

Martin

true.

 

14:48.40

Alyssa

So.

 

14:49.54

Martin

Very true. ah Very true. So  where to start?

 

14:51.92

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

14:54.59

Martin

 i was I already mentioned that I already mentioned at the beginning that ah ah this expedition was meant to be relatively like quick, right?

 

14:56.23

Alyssa

Yeah, I know.

 

15:05.86

Martin

So you in your interest, it would be that you want to be pre-acclimateized. So we were flying there around the 5th, well actually 7th of September, knowing that on Manaszlo the season is in September and the smit days usually are around 25th of September. Usually it can be earlier than that, it can be later than that. Sometimes you can go until late, sorry, early October, but it really depends.

 

15:34.39

Martin

September in Nepal, is ah it can be quite rainy and snowy on the mountain because of the monsoon still kind of finishing. and But also you just go for Manaslu because later on it’s I think it’s too windy. It really is geographically where the mountain stands, I believe, between the you know the whole like ah Indian and the Bengal Sea or whatever it’s called and then you know this massive hid so hot air gets to the mountains and get over to the then the north, I believe that’s connected to this. ah So yeah,  yeah you you could ask like why didn didn’t we go later but actually yeah, that’s that’s when you go. And actually it turned out to be

 

16:16.50

Martin

quite short this time, this time this year. I knew and I had this information about this mountain from the previous years, as two years ago was a nightmare. It was a lot of accidents, a lot of actually fatal accidents, ah too much snow, too much snowfall, avalanches all over the place. Last year was relatively okay. So I was like, okay, well, it’s random, not nothing I can do about it. ah Anyway, so my team, ah or The guys I was with. So actually then we were all doing our thing. So by the way, because yeah, as I mentioned, we mentioned in the beginning, I was I was planning to climb solo most of the time or actually pretty much the whole time.

 

16:58.31

Martin

And so  having going going there on the 7th, within 18 days, you want to climb 8,000 meter peak. So 18 days is relatively short. ah We can talk ah shortly or in know for a very long time about acclimatization strategies. But 18 days, yeah it definitely is not enough for most people to get up to the smit.

 

17:22.95

Martin

You really want to to spend some time in altitude, real or simulated before. ah So what I was doing was actually I did almost nothing. Pretty much simply put, I went twice to Mont Blanc. That was my acclimatization. I’m not really sure why. i One of the reasons was that I didn’t have a ski pass this season for Chamonix where I live.

 

17:48.58

Martin

So that actually sort of gives you the easy access to ah to the life system at least the agreement where i used to work so you know it’s really easy to get up and spend some time hours or just go for a run climb. But this time i didn’t for different reasons so ah but also i was like okay it’s going to be an interesting challenge i was.

 

18:07.33

Martin

I thought from previous experiences like last year on Broad Peak that i my body really reacted really fast and basically ah getting to the Broad Peak, the base camp, a very quick hike through the long valley of the Bal Toro. I think it took us three days.

 

18:26.67

Martin

I got to the base camp, which was at 5,000 meters. I went a couple of times, I went up, and I i think on day three I was at 7,100 meters. That was my highest point, and that was also the last day I was at that level, because the remaining i think two weeks we were there, and the weather was bad, so I never got another opportunity.

 

18:46.10

Martin

But that that sort of, I think that point gave me a good confidence.  So knowing now that if I spend some more time at altitude,  and then I think I would be able to go faster, I guess. But, they are well, I don’t play with ifs. It’s just good lesson.

 

19:05.50

Martin

ah So anyway, I don’t definitely, as you mentioned 3D smartly, that don’t recommend this strategy for anybody. You definitely want to acclimatize well, maybe leave or late August, specifically for Manasil, beginning of September and start using the tracking. I guess that’s the best. ah You go from launch to launch and you ah do the Manasil circuit.

 

19:27.76

Martin

which is a really nice tracking kind of option there anyway. ah Not even if you’re climbing the mountain, you can definitely do just the circuit if people do that, and it’s beautiful. And the highest point of that track is the pass, which ah goes at to 500, I think, ah not exactly, but something and or in that.

 

19:47.06

Martin

level and then you’re ready, you come down and you go to the base camp. So what instead of that, we flew to Samagon, which is the village, ah Bel Mazl. The altitude is 3,500 meters.

 

20:01.45

Martin

 ah we spent one night there and next day we hiked up to the base camp so it takes to cost like two and a half three hours I believe which yeah the elevation gain is about 1500 meters so actually I thought that the base camp is at 4800 meters but on Manaslu actually the base camp really goes along along this moraine that that goes uphill up the hill and so I was like where is our camp my company was 14 smits exp expedition

 

20:24.61

Alyssa

Okay, yeah.

 

20:31.28

Martin

Where is it? that Yeah, you have to keep going. And so actually, it was one of the last games and the the altitude was 5000 meters. So, you know, I was like, wow, this is going to be interesting. And I was feeling okay, but definitely felt like the pping chest, the heart rate was, was elevated. And otherwise, I felt fine physically, I felt fine.

 

20:52.55

Martin

ah But definitely was a bit worried about sleep because, you know, the sleep apnea can be very uncomfortable. ah i Just getting a headache or something. Was I going too fast? Or, you know, why didn’t I acclimatize more? All those things, all those thoughts were going through my head, but through my mind, but eventually it was okay.

 

21:12.05

Martin

But yeah, just a bit of surprise, to be honest. Yeah, there’s a bit of a difference between 4,800 and 5,000 meters. it’s It’s a bit of a step up. So and I guess, yeah, that’s that’s where it ended up and up. And yeah, so then we got there on the 8th of September, and that there I was. I had ah two and a half, three weeks, maybe, to do something on the mountain. And so ah afterwards, I started to do my strategy, going up and down,  up and down, well,

 

21:42.37

Martin

so a certain portion on the mountain and then coming back to recover in the base camp again.  Yeah, but yeah this is this was what happened before, right? So I went to Mont Blanc just really for two days. I ah just got to the smit, ran down, so it took me like five, seven hours, something like that in that category, up and down the hill. ah Really good training for me. I was feeling okay, so it also gave me quite ah an interesting insight because yeah I haven’t been to Mont Blanc for two or three years, I don’t remember now. But yeah, it’s been a while. So it was really cool to revisit because I used to train a lot up there.  But again, and like it was i was confident I was confident that it would work.

 

22:24.86

Martin

 the you know Most of the people there, they take different strategies. ah Yeah, some people had more problems. ah than others.

 

22:35.81

Martin

Some people got sick, meaning not really necessarily the altitude sickness, but the respiratory virus infections or different virus.

 

22:44.98

Alyssa

yeah man

 

22:46.57

Martin

That’s what happens usually. I think it’s really that such a stress from that hypoxia that affects the immunity that really you you you don’t resist and the dry air, and the whole the whole kind of stressful situation.

 

23:00.13

Martin

ah Some of it ah really affects your body such extent that you just get six to the get sick and you you get infected with the first virus that you encounter and so that’s what happened.

 

23:10.71

Alyssa

Yeah, man.

 

23:14.90

Alyssa

Awesome. I mean, that’s, that’s super helpful. And yeah, probably not ah recommend across the board. So you’re at base camp, you feel ready to go. What gear are you bringing on  your smit attempt?

 

23:34.31

Martin

So I had a gear for to get it to the base camp and also being around base camp. So basically running shoes with the Gator. I use Scarbus, so they have some specific ah models for that. And then, ah basically, like if I go to run on the ah the mountain in the Alps, right so some light soft shell, ah some light core attacks, and light jacket, down jacket, I mean, to protect myself ah when it gets colder.

 

24:04.14

Martin

 and for the the world higher I went so of course I needed to adapt that gear but I honestly was a bit  frustrated with my gear choice because I wish I had some lighter boots for at least the first part of the mountain because it was actually warmer than I thought it would be

 

24:24.89

Alyssa

Mm.

 

24:24.87

Martin

ah even though so the i we needed about 300 meters elevation gain so maybe like 40 minutes and we go to the glacier point so that’s where ah you put the crampons on.

 

24:37.35

Martin

ah Or you didn’t, it was sort of like a hike through the crevasse, so some people actually didn’t. But yeah, that’s where the snow and ice started. And it pretty much ah you pretty much stayed on Glacier the whole way. ah Until then, it was a rocky moraine. So for that part of the mountain, I had Scarpa Fonttec. It’s a model for mountaineering in the Alps. So l with there is the heat insulation, but just relate to minus 10, minus 15 maybe.

 

25:06.01

Martin

ah But that was fine for me until Camp 3. So I was kind of asking myself later on if I should use this model all the way to the smit, but well there was a lot about it. This ah first leg, I was using that and basically just going light as light as I could and during the day it was actually fine and it was getting really warm on the sun. ah That side of the mountain is I think it’s a south or south.

 

25:33.12

Martin

east, maybe, so relatively warm on the on the sun, actually roasting almost in the mid morning and midday my afternoon, this could be really warm. So it’s a point where people sometimes ah underestimate and they you’re just too, you know, you just have too many layers on and you’re dehydrated and getting exhausted in the sun because also the the heat is so reflecting from from the snow back to your face. So it’s it’s it can be really hard  But yeah anyway, it’s it’s pretty much comparable to mountaineering in the Alps or speed mountaineering at least, the speed climbs. But then of course, at some level, maybe 6,000 meters and 6,500 meters and higher, I was using like bigger boots. But really, for the smit, and I did the rotation, ah one last rotation before my smit, and that was until 7,500 meters and I kept my

 

26:30.49

Martin

phantom tags So basically the model used for the Alps, by the way, it’s not like a heavy big boot. ah one but ah One choice of gear was the heated socks. I think people are familiar with this and it’s really helpful. It’s kind of a backup and so first time actually I used it.

 

26:48.27

Martin

ah one there There are a couple of reasons maybe. It might be interesting for the listeners. So, ah two reasons. Well, basically, stay warm if your shoes somehow fail you. But for me too, also, I think there is something about hypoxia and especially pushing yourself very hard. So that’s sort of this category of speed climbing. I believe that it’s connected to it. There is this interesting a series of processes that happen in the severe hypoxia.

 

27:17.81

Martin

that your body sort of limits the blood flow to the extremities.

 

27:20.35

Alyssa

Mm.

 

27:21.20

Martin

And why I noticed this last year in Pakistan, so whenever I stopped after pushing for a couple of hours up the hill, I go to i got hypothermics straight away.

 

27:35.12

Martin

Whether the one minute I was shaking, and that was weird because usually you’re actually warm. and so right from the from the activity but actually it was the opposite opposite and so I noticed that and sort of gave me make me think made me think and ah so really wanted to be ready for this  and especially with ah with the feet ah because they were sort of my Achilles point meaning the vulnerable point last year on on Broadbeak I froze my feet and at one point so I definitely wanted to avoid that

 

27:43.33

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

28:07.41

Martin

 So I guess, yeah, that’s it. That’s it for the gear choice. I mean, of course, then there was different strategy for the smit, but maybe I can talk about it in specifics later.

 

28:18.31

Alyssa

Yeah, what about  food and water for that 13 hour push? What were you bringing?

 

28:25.99

Martin

So I brought a Martin Gels for at least the big pushes. I couldn’t really bring so many that I would be able, you know, I don’t know how many trips up the mountain I made.

 

28:37.73

Martin

But I was sort of eating the bars and some some gels ah during my trips up there. I have considered it basically being as a training that I do every day. and So  that was my plan. Then I had gmy bears, i got two or three packs. I felt like it was kind of a good option for me to have.

 

29:00.15

Martin

And what else? Sometimes I was sometime or they took like a snack from the kitchen. So the guys prepared some eggs for me. So I actually had some solid food. So the Tibetan bread with eggs. But then I actually ate after my push uphill before going back down, for example. But actually for the smit day. So I definitely planted in more detail because it was supposed to be very long.

 

29:23.35

Martin

I decided to take two and a half liters of water, ah so basically li of a and a half of water, and two the one litre of coke, so I had a Coca-Cola, so like a Carbo drink, ah because yeah, it works.

 

29:35.04

Alyssa

Mm, okay.

 

29:41.22

Martin

Even though you’re super tired, fatigued, flavour, loss of appetite, flavour, fatigue, all those things definitely you encounter up there.

 

29:52.32

Martin

ah So it still works and you need that. You need to be to stay sharp at least a bit. And so I also didn’t want to carry less because I thought it would be a long push.

 

30:03.89

Martin

And also I didn’t carry want to carry more because then it just gets heavy. and I got a bit of water in Camp 2 on my way on the smit day ah from my team.

 

30:08.00

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

30:14.45

Martin

So basically like two cups of tea extra. Otherwise I was carrying everything on my own. I didn’t have any more support out there. at least not plant one. I got the water then from the guys in Camp 4 because that was necessary. to us ah yeah For the downhill, I was like, not that I wasn’t counting on the downhill, but I was thinking I’m just going to somehow make it or ask someone for more water because that there was no way I could carry enough or prepare or you know also

 

30:46.02

Martin

What I did in those days until the smit, I also carried ah my boots and my some clothes that I planned to carry on my smer day in the above, at least at maybe 7,500 meters or where I got cold, would get cold.

 

31:01.18

Martin

ah So I left that in Camp 3. So then when I got to Camp 3, I changed my boots. And I i put the big jacket, big down jacket to my backpack.

 

31:12.73

Martin

And well, that was it. I didn’t have any water because any water that you would leave there for more than one hour, two hours, it was just freeze.

 

31:20.17

Alyssa

Be frozen.

 

31:20.32

Martin

It’s cold.

 

31:20.93

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

31:21.26

Martin

Yeah, even even in the thermos. So ah yeah yeah. So that was the that was the plan.  So we had the gels and and then gels, some bars, but I mostly was using the gels.

 

31:29.42

Alyssa

I mean, yeah i oh i mean I just think that’s really… good for everyone to hear because a coke is amazing i mean i’ve run so many miles off of just that it really is this magical thing  but i do think it’s good for people to hear like yeah gmy bears like sugar that’s what you need but also

 

31:48.36

Martin

Yeah.

 

31:56.27

Alyssa

there is a level of uncomfortableness that you accepted by trying when you’re trying to go fast, you have to make sacrifices.

 

32:02.93

Martin

Mm hmm.

 

32:04.58

Alyssa

And so you realize like, hey, there’s a strong chance I’m going to be really thirsty on the way down. And I’m just gonna have to accept that.

 

32:12.33

Martin

True.

 

32:12.72

Alyssa

 And so that’s always kind of the yeah, there are always things that you’re trying to balance within  managing those pieces.

 

32:13.79

Martin

Yeah.

 

32:22.72

Martin

Yeah, true. I mean, You can, there are definitely like FKTs or just assents. We don’t need to necessarily talk about records, but you can be supported, right? So you can have support up there. ah So people actually give you more order in the last camp, you know? So I wasn’t really planning on that, except that camp too, but but it took me it took me three hours to get up there, maybe something like that. that three hours, so I actually didn’t really use so much water. So I didn’t need to… I think maybe I refilled part of my flask, which I had on you know on my phone the front, to just drink directly. And the rest was fine still. I didn’t use any of it. And I just took the like two cups of tea tried to to drink a bit more, and then I just went on my way. And I, of course, could could have carried my stove and gas.

 

33:14.02

Martin

ah but I never used those, actually, by the way, through during the expedition. so you know But I could definitely melt some snow on the way if I ran out of water. But that would mean extra weight. So basically, also, I think what’s important to mention then yeah about the smit day. So we were there acclimatizing. I was doing well. I i was staying healthy, which was not ah it’s pretty challenging because a lot of people around were getting sick. And so you know that could just be a game over.

 

33:42.54

Martin

but anyway uh… It was coming to like 2020 of September, and so we were definitely looking at the four weather forecast, also on the mountain, what was going on, the Sherpa team that was fixing ah the route. So putting the fixed lines there, they got light, so it the conditions and the weather, and also the really technical C1, C2 part of the route. So ah yeah, it was sort of, I think it was around 19th, 1819, when they actually finished the whole route all the way to the smit. So first people smit it.

 

34:14.81

Martin

And I made my rotation to 7,500. So I really pushed hard that day. I really pushed ah beyond anything I have ever known before, at least with altitude. It was hard, of course. i It took me quite a long time. But then i it gave me confidence that next time I go, I should be able to get to the smit. Then I went down and we were just really checking the weather. And it was pretty clear that in four days it would be good. Until then, like two days of sort of snowy conditions.

 

34:45.07

Martin

And then this would be then Monday 23rd, we try for the smit, 24 relatively okay weather and 24 evening would be snowing for three days, heavy snow. So pretty much game over for very likely to be just a game over. So ah this this was our thinking as well, right? By the way, there I thought, okay, 23rd smit day, what do I do? How do I do it? When do I start? What do I take? ah Do I go aggressively or conservatively?

 

35:13.99

Martin

Do I try to go with those boots, the lighter but boots, all the way to go light and to be faster? Or I just take the big boots, the bigger ones than the 6000 meter model, which are a bit heavier, but it will most likely keep me safe.

 

35:27.83

Martin

i So I chose to go conservatively and to really maximize my chances to smit and I’m glad that I made the decision.

 

35:38.23

Alyssa

Yeah, I think that was wise.

 

35:38.27

Martin

And actually then ah eventually eventually, I’m sorry, eventually, ah it was It happened this way. We submitted, two of us submitted for my team. ah We went down 24th because also that was a big battle for the heli, by the way, if many people wanted to leave.

 

35:55.74

Alyssa

Mmm, yeah.

 

35:56.51

Martin

And it started to snow and it was snowing heavily. It rained rained over the Nepal. There was a big floods in Kathmandu, by the way. People died and the mountain just got completely covered by snow, meters of snow, and nobody climbed anymore.

 

36:11.04

Martin

ah So actually for the Manaslu, that was the end.

 

36:12.73

Alyssa

Wow.

 

36:14.67

Martin

So, you know, its that was also, you realize, wow, like it’ you need to be ready. And you’re not 100% acclimatized yet. I wasn’t.  but That was the day 15 of me being at altitude.

 

36:26.87

Martin

So yeah, I think my body was still acclimatizing, but I managed still and I’m pretty happy with that to ah to climb the to the smit. and So I had like this stick list saying ah basically, I want to get to 8,000 meters. I want to start from the base camp without oxygen. 8,000 meters is like my dream altitude. So when that popped up on my watch, right, I had that ah the altitude there. So no I took a photo of it. It was a pretty emotional moment.

 

36:54.92

Martin

and And then the last 160 meters still took me ages to get there. It was so crazy hard. But then basically, OK, I want to make it to the smit at a some given time. you know And then at some point there was ah maybe a record, but that never happened. And I’m OK with that. It’s a you know it’s it’s also just ah what you learn. And and so i’m I’m really happy for with the the whole experience.

 

37:24.84

Alyssa

Yeah, I was trying to find the, gosh, what you posted something and it really stood out to me where you said something along the lines, I thought of, , this is exactly how I always hoped or imagined it would be.

 

37:50.06

Martin

Yeah, I think…

 

37:50.70

Alyssa

I believe you. Yeah.

 

37:56.13

Alyssa

Yeah, i I’m pretty sure  that was something that I saw and I’m curious if you can, like what, how was that in the smit day, if if  you kind of want to smarize that.

 

38:11.88

Martin

Sure. Well, it’s interesting you know how that experience after two months feels. ah It’s not yet two months, but it will be soon. It it feels like it’s a long time ago. And ah yeah, i’m definitely the the fresh experiences were, well, quite raw. And now you know yeah you have some time to process it. But anyway, at the smit day. So as I mentioned,

 

38:37.38

Martin

Definitely a lot of strategizing, making decisions, so you all i talking, OK, who’s going to do ah who’s going going to do what out of my team, at least. right So ah we saw that most of the guys, they ran out of time. they they were They were ready, maybe acclimatized, but they still needed more days. They still needed one more rotation. and But they still went and gave it gave it a try.

 

39:00.23

Martin

 So, but anyway, about me, I was like, when should I start? So i was I was thinking, I was counting, I had the splits, like what time it will take to me on each part of the mountain and and what time I should probably take on the upper part of the mountain. So it’s reasonable. like If I make it to the smit, so it’s still within the reasonable time during of the day and I have enough time, well, to to go to go all the way down. So I decided to leave at 1am.

 

39:29.62

Martin

Uh, what was happening? So this was, this would be Monday, very early morning. Uh, Sunday, it was raining all day. So I was like, what’s going on? It, uh, it wasn’t not meant to be, uh, according to the forecast. So that was a first doubt.

 

39:46.58

Martin

ah Will it be is it only snow ah raining down because then snow actually snow rain line was usually a couple of hundred meters above us or sometimes it snowed a bit also in the base camp at 5 000 meters but they make my big worry was if it’s snowing too much up high on the mountain it might just be too too sketchy to too too too dangerous or there will be too much snow for me to  to kind of you know go through breakthrough. So to too it would take me too much energy. alright like I was looking at a really, really big day. So there was a lot of details that kind of need to go right for me to succeed and stay safe. and So that was the first doubt.  Then in the evening, so I was just chilling, you know just resting, preparing ah the gels, recounting everything and just like relaxing.

 

40:38.60

Martin

ah not overthinking it.  and I was very excited, I was excited. Then in the evening, so i went to I went to bed at eight, so just to have a couple of hours of sleep and wake up at midnight, I have a well breakfast at midnight, and then started one. ah That was the plan. So I woke up ah just to go for a toilet ah ten ah at 10 p.m. and it was clear. I was like, yes, that’s good, how i’ve got but bru beautiful.

 

41:07.98

Martin

ah Beautiful sky actually then I woke up and again and there was it was kind of misty and almost training again So I was like, okay, this is not happening. What’s going on? What’s with going on this weather?

 

41:20.58

Martin

But say, OK, let’s just keep going. Let’s just go. I had a quick great breakfast, packed up, ah and ah went up actually a bit lower down in the base camp to start from this big stupa that sort of signifies that this is the center of the base camp. And yeah kind of if my my guys from my from my team, they actually woke up and joined me. So that was really cool.

 

41:44.50

Martin

ah kicked me off to the night and then I went off. ah So I started to walk, it was a bit misty, then started to snow, a bit higher up. So, you know, again, like doubts, is this going to be okay? where What is this weather? There was a chance that the cloud actually was only the lower cloud, right? So somewhere around 6,500 meters, maybe ah above it, it would be actually clear. But I didn’t know that, I didn’t have the information. So I walked through the night, there was nobody, I passed first camp, everybody was asleep, just dark.

 

42:14.60

Martin

ah climbed through the technical sections, just being on my own. It was quite cool. it’s That’s also what I seek, by the way, the experience of being on my own in the mountain and in this experience, like where am I going?

 

42:21.01

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

42:25.03

Martin

And really are like you feeling that you feeling every change direction of the way and everything you because its you rely on that. You rely on those yeah sensations because it can tell you something about the mountain, what is going on.

 

42:40.00

Martin

Right. So for me, it’s really powerful. And, uh, but it’s also many hours just keep going. So yeah, anyway, uh, those are, I guess the experiences that’s really hard to explain. Uh, I might, it took them to a good time as was actually faster than my previous rotation. So I was, I felt like I was getting faster. Actually one important point.

 

43:04.22

Martin

So still below camp one, so maybe one hour in, I realized that I have this itch in my ah my right side of my thorax, which is ah ah like a chest. So basically like a cramp in the diaphragma, you sometimes feel, but it was this odd feeling where I was like, okay, well, what is this? And I realized that it’s the breathing muscles, ah one of them diaphragma, of course, the maybe the more more powerful one.

 

43:33.76

Martin

that was actually tired from that rotation that I did to 7500 meters ah so several days ago, which four days actually to be precise. And I was already thinking about that, like what role do do these muscles play in the mountaineering and high altitude mountaineering.

 

43:50.18

Martin

And so anyway, this is one of the factors that I actually noticed. And I definitely want to invest more in like studying it and using it potentially for myself and coaching. I think it’s really big, big factor. So more about it later, because actually, that’s what actually something that was the main factor high up on the in the going to 8,000 meter level. so Anyway, so I went to Camp 2, I got the water from from one of my friends, Sherpa guys. Some teams were actually getting ready, so this this was about 4 AM in the morning, so they were getting ready for to go up to the higher camp. I just passed through and it just kept going without stopping. i Very soon, I think 45 minutes later, I was in Camp 3, that was pretty kind of easy part for me.

 

44:39.24

Martin

and went into the tent where I had my gear. So I changed ah to my boots. I was a bit worried about that, because any time in my previous climbs last year and years before, ah in  in high altitude, when I stopped, and I had to because I needed to put some gear on, I got really stiff, like my muscles got really stiff, and more so than you experience maybe, you know, in like normal altitude situation, you know, like when you’re running, I guess that’s some, you know this, right, from your ultras.

 

45:07.95

Alyssa

oh yeah yeah

 

45:09.23

Martin

you don’t want to really stop too much because then it’s really hard to get going again. And it’s really impressive how fast it it can happen. And so, yeah, that’s sort of what I was worried about also with getting cold.

 

45:22.05

Martin

But luckily in the tent, I was more isolated. Last year on Broad Peak, I was changing outside. So in the night, so it was bad. I got i froze so quickly.

 

45:32.22

Martin

It was ridiculous.

 

45:32.48

Alyssa

Oh yeah, yeah.

 

45:33.86

Martin

So luckily this time, fine. Anyway, so. That was basically a midpoint for the altitude elevation gain. So camp three was about 1600 meters higher than the base camp and I had still 1600 meters elevation gain to go. I wanted i needed to change my gear slightly, so  it was still before sunrise, by the way, so still relatively cold, but nothing nothing crazy.

 

00:20.68

Martin 

But until then, I was carrying these tights with some Gorat X, so really comfortable for for the speed and for the temperature I was experiencing. But then I put ah like Gorat X pants that I had from from Rob.

 

00:37.78

Martin 

and then changed the boots, so I was carrying them the Scarapa 6000, still the same crampons, so relatively quick ah change, I think it still took me i maybe 15 to 20 minutes, it still takes a while a bit, so that’s what I was worried about, and I didn’t really do anything else, I didn’t boil any water, just really changed the gear, changed the clothes,

 

01:00.54

Martin 

and put the big down jacket if it really got cold on the smit. And then I started to start it again. So this was now, I think it took me about four hours from the base camp, I believe. So with the time of the change, I think for four hours something. So this was somewhere around 5 a.m. and right above the Camp 3, I was still in the cloud, so still not really certain what’s going on in the upper parts of the mountain and with with with the ah rain and snow, and potential snow from the previous day, so I had some doubts. But then luckily, just above, 100 meters ah above, clouds disappeared and I was actually above the sea of clouds and it was all clear, ah some sunrise, so beautiful light, a really cool moment.

 

01:58.54

Martin 

And I could see that there was some fresh snow, and but not ah not some crazy large quantity that it it would make a and the, you know, the hiking kind of impossible or or difficult. So there was a track. There was some people already on the trail.

 

02:14.97

Martin 

So from there ah to Camp4, it goes pretty much straight up the face and it’s getting just steeper and steeper. There’s a bit of this icy wall where you have to just kind of grab the line and fix the line and climb up it. ah So it definitely breaks the rhythm. I wasn’t really using the fixed line, except for those really steep parts, because I kind of felt that it was blocking my respiration ah somehow. That was an interesting ah experience I found, so I was just trying to stay relaxed and just keep going. I definitely felt a bit stronger than the previous rotation. So just be patient, keep going, ah and ah be careful because you definitely are walking under some Xerox, so you just sort of never know. But there wasn’t some fresh debris, so you have to just accept sometimes that there is some objective danger.

 

03:10.44

Martin 

And yeah, I was really hoping for kind of a quick progress to then the level of 7400. That’s the level of camp four, but the camp four is off to the stood side on the right side. So you actually miss it and you keep going to towards the smit. So It’s not really necessary. Well, if it might be necessary. If you want to use the camp, but I that was not my plan and I so so I kept going. And so then you I ended up on 7500 meters where there is this plateau couple hundred meters. You really are walking on flat terrain and then you will see the whole the rest of the route, which is

 

03:51.16

Martin 

but It kind of resembles the Boss Ridge on Mont Blanc. So it’s like a series of steeper sections on the snow and mixed with some not flat sections, but yeah, it’s it it is right there and you can see the track.

 

03:54.50

Alyssa

Okay.

 

04:04.56

Martin 

And yeah, you see that it’s going to be ah really tough. So I think at that point I realized I felt the altitude, its felt the the fatigue.  i At this point, I think it was about seven and a half, seven hours, 45 minutes, I believe.

 

04:20.27

Martin 

So  yeah, it was a good time. not a good time. I didn’t know, but I felt also at this at one moment, I felt like, oh, I guess it’s hard. And I just still i have to such a long way. This will take forever. And yeah, you just feel kind of drained of energy and you feel like, wow, this is the altitude. This is the real. You just have to keep going. So step by step.

 

04:45.11

Martin 

One step at a time so that is what that’s what it took for the next, I don’t know how many hours, basically five hours for the rest of the route, which is crazy because that was the 600 meters,  almost 700, maybe 700 meters ah that was left, which usually takes me, I don’t know, 35 minutes ah in the Alps and here, ah you know, well, hours, hours. And so it really takes it out of you.

 

05:14.75

Martin 

, there were some better moments. Uh, I really got cold at one point, so I put the big jacket. Uh, but yeah yeah, luckily it was good. There was one moment I looked back on that sea of clouds and it was actually going up. So I was like, no, please, no, please just stay down there and give me this, uh, this good weather. Uh, you know, , so, but then, uh, the, you know, from the doubts and there were many, because there was like a long day, uh, long night and long day until this point.

 

05:45.09

Martin 

and just keep pushing and, you know, you just don’t know if it’s going to happen. So I felt like, okay, I think I am can make it. But well, still, I’m at the highest point I’ve ever been. It’s still a long, long way to go far away. And, you know, every step just cost you so much.  and So that was the real deal. That was the deal and was ah that was what your and what you’re going through.

 

06:11.44

Martin 

Also, there was a one guy from my team, so Matei Bernat, his name, really strong athlete. And so he was actually skiing. He was trying to ski from the smit. So the day before he went up to Camp 3 and he actually started then from Camp 3.

 

06:28.59

Martin 

around midnight. So, yeah, we were sort of going the same day, but I was going from the base camp. And then he actually backed up picked up his skis, which he carried ah up there during the rotation a couple of days before at 7.5, so 7,500. And so I was at that time when I was already 7,700, 7,800 getting closer to the smit, I was watching out for him. I knew that he was somewhere up there, and definitely hoping that he was safe.

 

06:56.02

Martin 

And so it happened. It was about maybe 7,900. Really like this last steep section just took me forever. I was so drained and then he was there like, you know, slowly skiing because it’s a, you do two, you know, like two curves and then you’re just lying because you’re catching the breath. So yeah, so he he stopped and he were, we were like exchanging, like really emotional. It was beautiful. ah Really cool. ah I was really happy for him.

 

07:25.21

Martin 

And then he just had to go because, well, he had to go safely, ah slowly down. And I carried on, so getting closer and closer  to the smit.

 

07:38.25

Martin 

 Yeah, so. I guess that’s that basically, I don’t know, ah it was just really desperate. It is really painful. I was just out of breath every couple of steps. So for me, the strategy usually was on these big mountains that I was able to go continuously, right? And I had to stop sometimes, say, just to get something out of my backpack. But usually I had the flasks, ah you know, ready to to drink it because they usually sort of makes you stop. But otherwise, you know, I’m usually able to go continuously.

 

08:09.94

Martin 

But there, once the altitude sort of hits somewhere maybe 6,000 meters, I have to stop ah sometimes and actually more and more often. So then for me, like the mind game is helping myself to go through that hardship.

 

08:26.50

Martin 

is to, OK, I need to make 100 steps. And then it kind of comes down to 80 and 50 and 30. And then you’re like somewhere in 10 steps, and you have to stop for one, two minutes. So that’s really what was happening. Then there was this break of terrain. There was a bit of a flatter part. And I was really, really so tired. I was really hoping that the smith is not far, because I was feeling like, wow, I’m really and at my limits ah here.  And so Yeah, I was just kind of sitting there, ah just enjoying the scenery, but I definitely wanted to make it to the smit and I think I was checking the time. It was about 12 hours and a half. So I was having a really good time, but I didn’t really have a set time that I would be happy about. I was just really, at this stage, just wanting to make it. And so I just started to walk again and any, ah this this was actually then sort of traverse and ah

 

09:24.93

Martin 

Well, ended up being really close, but I just didn’t know that. I was really hoping, I hope that there is not like a fake smit and all of a sudden and this new a hundred meters more of something crazy steep will appear and I’ll be really done. So yeah, I was just praying and hoping and luckily it was just a really short uphills traverse. And then this last, maybe 10, 15 meters, uh, steps to the flag. So I could see, I could see the flag.

 

09:52.41

Martin 

ah So I just made like the steps so relatively fast. So I almost, ah yeah, I almost coughed my lungs out because it was it was not a good idea. ah And just ah so, and then it landed up there. It’s not a flat area. It’s like a step there that you can sit on and really really sharp snowy ridge. So it’s not like you can dance there or something. ah But yeah, it definitely took my time.

 

10:18.61

Martin 

ah to catch my breath and to just enjoy the scenery. I was there alone, which i was really beautiful ah to to guys have that time on my own and enjoy. and yeah i mean i think I remember pretty much well, you all that of course, there is some sort of mind fog brain fog.

 

10:38.77

Martin 

going on. But I was in control at this point still, until the fatigue really kicked in later. But the yeah, I was in control, I radioed my base camp. So that was actually cool. My friend in the base camp, he was sort of expecting it, you know, it was quite a long, long hours waiting for the news. And so ah he went and there was this cracking in the radio. So he filmed it. And and so I actually made you know the announcements they came in the smit hey guys you know it’s like here safe and so it’s cool that he got it but I found out later of course anyway uh yeah so really beautiful not super super cold not windy so it was good conditions and so I knew that okay that this this isn’t over I have to get down as well ah so yeah it’s relatively steep but well I was it was fine it was you know I was on the fixed line on clipped so

 

11:35.05

Martin 

no problem there. And yeah, then after i maybe 20 minutes, I don’t know exactly, but taking photos and I tried to ah get a signal actually that I could call call my wife and my family maybe, but actually it there was no signal.

 

11:51.06

Martin 

It’s funny because you sometimes get it. It’s an interesting from, you know, from the side there, actually you kind of look down to the valley ah where there is the village.

 

11:53.33

Alyssa

Yeah. and

 

11:59.80

Martin 

So, but it was just too far away. , but actually then in camp three on lower on the way down, I called my mom. So it was ah quite cool. Uh, you know, it’s from the 6,500 or something. So anyway, uh, no, but I was still up there. So started to go down. And then I, as I already mentioned, uh, it got really difficult. Uh, yeah, I mean, uh, the, just really had me and I really was aware of like, I’m going down like literally or figuratively just, uh,

 

12:33.01

Martin 

basically, reserves were down, I had like 100 mil of water left, which was not much. And I was desperately thirsty. So  yeah, I was aware that this is serious. And if if it gets worse, then I’m in trouble. Right. So so then yeah, I kind of called my I called my base camp and they say, guys, ah just to work for you to know that I’m sort of ah struggling here.

 

12:59.64

Martin 

Don’t don’t call for anybody here. It’s fine. But I’m just ah you know, check up on a me maybe later. You know, so I gave them a notice.  But then I think I met two people then lower down.

 

13:10.24

Martin 

I didn’t think one gave me a sip of water, but I just didn’t want to also ask more because they were also in their own own battle.

 

13:18.31

Alyssa

Right.

 

13:19.15

Martin 

So you know, it was not ethical to ask of them. And I also wasn’t dying dying. So it was just okay, just go. ah And ah So yeah, again, the the big lesson, like 8,000 meters, not easy. Even on the downhill, it’s still ah really difficult. But I guess it was a combination of the physical effort for so many hours from really like 4,900 meters all the way up to 8,163 meters. So, you know, it was a big day out. And also, I guess, as I was saying, I believe it was also this mental physical decompression that the body was like, just kind of let go.

 

13:59.27

Martin 

And it was not time to do that yet. So I had to bring myself back and okay stay focused and like make it to make it safe. So I think maybe an hour later I was ah was in the camp four. So I went actually to the sites to the camp four because I really needed water. It was really, really bad.

 

14:20.15

Martin 

So Sherpas, I think it was 8K expedition. So if anybody listens, I really, I’m thankful. It was really cool from them because it takes efforts to bring their stoves and guests, you know, it’s not nothing.

 

14:31.92

Martin 

It’s ah they, you know, they make so much effort to bring their, their gear and also well, the stuff, the make the water up there.

 

14:33.29

Alyssa

Right.

 

14:40.37

Martin 

So it was a really beautiful gesture. They gave me like one a year of water and some juice, some sugar. So it brought me back to life. So then I was feeling better and it still went down to, well, all the way, but yeah, it’s still not easy because, you know, it’s still in that zone where its altitude is still definitely making an impact. And also there were some steep beds where I had to be focused  on the way down. Like it wasn’t up sailing. It was just, I usually was just grabbing the rope a bit and sliding down with the gloves. It was usually okay.

 

15:16.36

Martin 

And yeah, then Camp 2 after some time. That was actually 6 p.m. I remember because it was getting dark ah by then, so beautiful sunset, just beautiful light. So I was really, you i you know, I actually shed some tears. It was ah on the way, not necessarily there, but yeah, it was really cool, emotional, you know, when it kind of hits you what you’re doing and where you are. ah So trying to also let it s sink and and just really experience it.

 

15:45.67

Martin 

And there the guys from my team were actually almost ready to go for their smit. So they were actually starting to the night. So starting from there ah with oxygen, with supplemental oxygen. And like the big companies were starting right there at like 6pm. So it was interesting to see their strategy. And so my guys, they gave me soup. I think the salty soup really, that’s what brought me back on my feet. It was it was like, oof.

 

16:12.78

Martin 

Finally, I feel much better. so oh Then I started to walk down, put the headlamp on, ah realized that I didn’t have so much battery, so I ended up ah hiking for the rest of the of the way with the like on that emergency mode, but it it was okay. and Actually, my friend Matej who skied, he was waiting for me in the Camp 2, and we were walking down together so because he was worried about that i was you know that I gave them the message that I was really out of out of it. So they were quite worried. So it was really cool. So from him to wait for me.

 

16:49.30

Martin 

And then eventually he he got really tired. It just hit me him the fatigue from the whole day and two. So we were sort of backing up each other. I think that was cool. And yeah, and that’s actually right.

 

17:00.28

Martin 

The upsells, camp two to camp one, that was the ice wall.

 

17:03.86

Alyssa

Okay.

 

17:03.91

Martin 

So actually you were upselling.

 

17:05.28

Alyssa

You have to pay attention. Yeah.

 

17:06.72

Martin 

So we yeah we had to really, we’re like checking up each other. You know, you don’t want to make a mistake there. That’s usually what happens. So  I guess, yeah, then we just made it.

 

17:17.17

Martin 

ah through base camp eventually after a long long journey down ah through the dark and well really cool moment our team gave us a dinner I think it was about 9 30 evening right so I was on the move for whatever it it was 9 20 hour 20 and half, maybe almost 21 hours total.

 

17:39.05

Martin 

So I wasn’t racing down.

 

17:40.28

Alyssa

out.

 

17:40.41

Martin 

It was just really making it down. Also, we were breaking bringing all our gear, so all the boots I had in Camp 3, so I also had to pack that and bring all down. But yeah, it was okay.

 

17:51.05

Martin 

I was just feeling everything and ah yeah yeah, being tired. But then the next day, we also we left 4 a.m., so it was a quite short night.

 

18:03.12

Martin 

ah because we had the alley to get out of there. We knew that there would be a very large number of people who would like to actually evacuate. ah So if you don’t do that, then you know we just get stuck there for days. And also the bad weather was coming, so we were quite worried. You know We just don’t want to be in the lodge or in the village for too many days, which actually happened for many, many people. So actually, it was my smit day.

 

18:31.73

Martin 

and I don’t know, it’s still interesting to, of course, to to talk about it because I kind of reopened that in my in in my mind and the memories. ah And every time you remember something different, so it’s quite cool.

 

18:47.18

Alyssa

Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. 

 

18:52.66

Alyssa

It’s yeah, it it must be so interesting after kind of the initial. I mean, when you got down, were you able to reflect a bit and kind of like have an emotional response? Or were you just so tired, you’re like, ah like just relief?

 

19:13.63

Martin 

No, I think I was still there. I was still aware of what was going on. ah I wasn’t really, ah I think I wasn’t really sure how to feel about it. You know, if the time was good or so I was, I was maybe not aware of all of those things because well, it’s, it’s a big experience and you know, it’s, it’s just such a long journey. Yeah. Basically almost 24 hours that you go through this and, uh, with so many doubts as I was describing, uh, but you just keep going as you, as you have to go, right? Like you run a new trial. So you just.

 

19:45.66

Martin 

Well, it’s a kind of a thing where you don’t know if you make it till the end, even though you’re really physically prepared and fit. You just have so many factors that again, you don’t control, maybe more like physical ones. Uh, so this is maybe something that I needed more time for sure. I needed, uh, some more time, days and weeks, and maybe I still need more now for sure to actually realize what happened. And, uh, so I guess, uh,

 

20:15.00

Martin 

I was super happy, you all but also, well, it was just time to eat, time to sleep a bit. And then I was like, wow, if we can get back to Kathmandu, have a good shower. And, you know, after some weeks spent in the base camp, you know, I could really want to all of a sudden like, okay, and then I can actually decompress and really relax and just sleep. So that’s actually what happened the next day. We ended up in Kathmandu all of a sudden.

 

20:41.81

Martin 

So just ah such a big transfer, transfer right?

 

20:42.62

Alyssa

Oh yeah.

 

20:44.65

Martin 

I was sleeping a lot. I was really tired and my face was burned. My lips were super inflamed. So yeah, then the odds just kind of let go physically.

 

20:58.40

Martin 

So maybe the fatigue was there. And I guess talking about it then to France,

 

00:02.19

Martin 

Yeah, I need i think that to talk about my experience with my family, with my wife, from my friends. ah I think that’s where I started to realize what ah what I actually experienced and maybe in terms of performance as well. you know it’s ah you know Maybe I had different expectations. I guess I did. I always maybe operate like that and it might be a tricky thing where then it’s you know you might set those expectations really high and you know ah you end up doing something which might not meet them, but actually on the way there, you still accomplish something really

 

00:40.42

Martin 

really cool to so to, you know, to some extent. So I think for me, it took a while. And until today, I have no regrets. And I’m super happy about that. Yeah. And also, as I was saying, the sort of that mental tick list I had, right, so ah I managed a big part of it. So I think I should be satisfied with that. And also  maybe that acceptance that we talked about at the beginning, I realized, and I was actually quite happy about this, ah that I was able to be okay if I didn’t smit. That was important for me. that i And I was okay, of course, because you need to be. Sometimes it just doesn’t happen. and like We talked about it also. But at the same time, what I mean by that is that I learned so much you know from a perspective of an athlete

 

01:36.95

Martin 

from a perspective of a coach and also being involved somehow in the research for altitude physiology. right So it gave me so many insights that you know it was definitely not a time wasted on the but the opposite. And ah and so the summit that it happened, well, you know amazing. ah So yeah, I guess then people started to ask me like, well, what’s next? you must ah you must be you know You must already have ideas. And I was there, I think it was in Kathmandu and I was sitting in there, I was like, ah no idea, I didn’t think about it for a second yet. But at that point, it was just, yeah, I was just back. So I was still actually there in Manaslu and really kind of immersed in that experience still. So yeah, there’s time to think about the future, but yeah, I guess then some inspiration came. but

 

02:36.76

Martin 

This was really like the first day where, yeah, it was just so you know so powerful that ah I was definitely not ready to think about ah future objectives.

 

02:39.97

Alyssa

 

02:49.65

Alyssa

Yeah, I mean, I think like I feel this, I feel that a lot too.  I kind of have always, not always, but I’ve accepted that I probably will never be a person who’s content.

 

03:04.79

Alyssa

And, but after a race or something where you’ve truly, you know, you’ve done your best for that moment. Maybe you could have done better in the, you know, you’ve done your best for that moment. And I always find the day or two afterwards when I go, oh, that’s what contentedness feels like. And it’s not what’s next because you’ve done the job, the dream, et cetera, to the best of your ability. And

 

03:31.02

Alyssa

I’m glad you were able to just sit with that before the next thing came. And i to me, that’s probably the only time I ever feel truly content is that day or two after an event where it’s like, I can just sit, I eat, I am full of joy and gratitude for what I’ve done, and I don’t feel

 

03:35.88

Martin 

Yeah. Yeah. True.

 

03:54.54

Alyssa

this undying need to go do what’s next, like I do the rest of my life.

 

03:59.23

Martin 

Yeah.

 

04:01.88

Martin 

‘That’s really good, well said. I think I realized this actually recently and that somehow this growth mindset, I believe that’s that’s the, that was a big realization to understand myself better. And I think this is what you just described where, you know, for the large part of my life, I’ve been unsatisfied. So that was a driver for me to push harder, to train harder,to study harder and you know just try to strive to, I guess,do better in different areas of my life, but without necessarily knowing this. So for me, this is actually yeah exactly that. I think there is going to be another mountain? I mean, for sure deeply, I would like to still find another challenge, but also being able to accept that maybe it will not happen for different reasons, but, the you know,

 

04:56.03

Martin 

Yeah, I guess this is what I am, I was satisfied, like it was a really nice, beautiful feeling. But also, ah now I understand myself better if I say, okay, like I just climbed this mountain, why cannot just not be, you know, okay with and, you know, but I, it’s okay, I’m super happy to be back in training. And, you know,enjoying some downtime after the mountain because I needed that. My body definitely was tired. I really felt it.Like when I got back home to Chamonix, that was actually two weeks later because I stayed in Kathmandu for some research. ah But ah maybe that was also good. It was nice to stay in that place. Nepal, Kathmandu experienced some history places there and it was just, go you know,

 

05:48.40

Martin 

 experience also that a bit and gave me some time to reflect before I actually flew back home to, well, it’s good to be home, but also, you know, ah kind of the familiar zone of comfort. When I got back home then, I really felt like, wow,my body just shut down. And it usually happens after these big objectives, especially in autumn somehow. Yeah, I start to feel these mini injuries or, you know, it just, that Yeah, the body just needs a bed. Snow I kind of expected. So yeah, I just gave the body a couple of weeks of, okay, low maintenance.

 

06:29.41

Alyssa

Yeah. No, I think that’s good. I think it’s important to recognize that. And sometimes your body just takes it whether or not you want it. You want it.

 

06:37.52

Martin 

That’s true.

 

06:38.68

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

06:38.77

Martin 

Yeah. Whether you want it or not.

 

06:42.26

Alyssa

Yeah. Well, Martin, thank you for sharing this. I think as kind of a last piece, the words that you wrote and that I was searching for earlier were 12 hours, 49 minutes, no supplemental oxygen, my first 8,000-dare just the way I dreamed it. I smile, I am, just simply am, no more going up. On top of Manasalu alone,views are farr in each other. It’s really beautiful.

 

07:16.07

Martin 

Thank you. I don’t even remember.You know who goes there?t Of course, I wrote it later, but actually the experience, the emotions,you, I guess they changed with the time.

 

07:30.44

Martin 

That’s how I felt it.

 

07:33.01

Alyssa

Yeah.

 

07:34.48

Martin 

That’s how it was. Really, really beautiful, really profound. and

 

07:40.84

Alyssa

I think you should frame those words with a photo.

 

07:45.86

Martin 

Good idea.

 

07:46.33

Alyssa

They’re certainly worthy of that.  Awesome.

 

07:50.86

Martin 

Thank you.

 

07:51.67

Alyssa

Well, Martin, thank you so much for sharing that. I know that you are accepting clients for working on their own 8,000 meter peaks and less and more and all of the pieces in between. So if you’d like to work with Martin, he’s available  as far as I know.

 

08:16.13

Martin 

Yeah, it’s a busy season because now Aconcagua’s coming and then Everest is basically around the corner.

 

08:18.09

Alyssa

yeah

 

08:24.70

Martin 

It’s for five months and then you know all of a sudden there is this spring season for the 8,000 meter peaks and other objectives. but yeah But now I’m happy to reach out if you want advice or consultation or coaching.

 

08:40.32

Martin 

I’m happy to help share what I learned.

 

08:44.09

Alyssa

Awesome. Well, thank you, Martin. And thank you for listening to the uphill athlete podcast. If you can rate, review and subscribe on your favorite podcast platforms,that helps us to reach more athletes and help them have these experiences and reach their dreams and goals as well. So thanks, Martin.

 

09:07.03

Martin 

Thanks Alyssa, thank you.