Your First Ultra

Alexa Hasman:
I think the thing that’s going to determine whether you’re ready for the ultra is how much time you have leading into it to get ready for it. So, if you’re like, you know, it is May and you want to sign up for a 50K in July and this is your first time and you have no experience, I’m going to tell you that’s probably not a good idea, right?

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Steve House:
Welcome to the Uphill Athlete podcast. My name is Steve House, and today my guest is Alexa Hasman, director of our training groups and coach. Alexa has been coaching for 16 years. She has run over 40 ultra distance races, including seven 200-mile-plus races. Alexa, because she runs our training group programs, she has a lot of conversations with first time ultra runners because a lot of those athletes come through training groups and really curious to talk to her today about the first ultra. Alexa, welcome.

Alexa Hasman:
Hi Steve, thanks for having me.

Steve House:
Well, before we get into anyone else’s ultra, what was your first ultra?

Alexa Hasman:
My first ultra was Stumptown Trail Runs here locally in Portland, Oregon by Go Beyond Racing. I chose it because it’s in the local trail system that I run all the time in Forest Park. So I got to train on the terrain. I knew who the race directors were. I knew that they put on amazing events. And so yeah, it was a fun local event.

Steve House:
What did you think it was going to be like versus what was it actually like?

Alexa Hasman:
Well, you know, you think about, I’d come from doing, I came from the belief system, and this is incorrect, that you need to run a road marathon first, right? So I had just come off of running like 2 or 3 road marathons. And I knew that they weren’t going to be similar, but in my head, I’m like, all right, I just did 26 miles. I’m only adding like 5 miles to it, right? It’s a 50K. The level of leg fatigue. I felt on the final descent because it finishes on this long, like mile and a half descent down this trail called Wild Cherry to the finish line. The leg fatigue that I felt that day was unlike anything I had ever experienced and it was something that I was not expecting. And so I always warn, like, first time trail athletes like, one, this is totally normal. Two. It’ll get better. The more you do it, that will go away, right? You will not stay that same amount of like discomfort. So, but that was the biggest surprise to me. And I think the one thing going into that I was warned about. So I was expecting this, but it was still sort of a shock. When the start gun goes off, everybody starts walking. Right? Totally different than like a road marathon or anything else because you’re like, all right, let’s go. And then everybody’s like, slowly walks.

Steve House:
Yeah, that’s great. I think that’s actually very reassuring, right? Because I know I, for one, you know, get really fired up right before the starting gun goes off. So it’s very hard to do that, actually.

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, and I’m sure there were people that were like sprinting up that first hill, because you go up the hill that you end on. But, you know, the majority of us were like, all right, we’re starting on a 2 mile climb here, we’re going to hike this, so inappropriately, so.

Steve House:
Sure. So, you know, we often see this in the group chat and training group, somebody writes, hey, I just signed up for my first 50K. I’ve got such and such a training plan. When you read that message. What are you assuming or what are you guessing about the person who wrote it?

Alexa Hasman:
One, I’m presuming that they’re nervous. They’re nervous, excited, and they’re likely going into an area that they’re not used to, and the biggest thing I hear that people are surprised by is the cultural difference with like a trail race or trail ultra compared to like other things that they’ve experienced, whether it’s like triathlons or road racing. You know, if they’ve come from like any sort of road racing, the trail communities, just vastly different and showing up to that that start line is just really different. So I think that one, all right, they’re in for a treat too, they’re going to get hooked real quick. So this is going to be a first 50K, and that’s going to escalate from there, likely. It’s like getting your first tattoo, you know, it escalates quickly.

Steve House:
Hmm, fair. Oh, I haven’t had my first tattoo yet. Not yet. So take your word for it. So a lot of people, and you touched on this earlier, assume they need to run a road marathon before they try an ultra, and the typical, maybe just a quick definition, you know, an ultra is typically something over 50 kilometers or longer, and so a 50K is roughly 32 miles, which is, you know, roughly 6 miles longer than a marathon, 6 and a bit. So, I don’t, I know that neither of us thinks that or believes that running a road marathon is necessary for someone before they do their first ultra. Why do, why, why do you believe that? What was your process? You yourself said you came from that belief system? Break it down.

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, it’s a good question. And I think our natural tendency is to think, well, distance wise, they’re comparable. So why wouldn’t I start with that? The thing is, I think of them as totally different sports. From the perspective that in trail racing, you’re on a trail. So your stabilizers are working differently. You’re usually hiking hills. Yeah, you don’t see that a lot in road marathons. The fueling aspect is different. You’re out there for longer. You’re not as worried about pace per se. So I think of it as just totally a different sport. I think a better intro would be more of like a trail 25K than a road marathon, even though these are significantly different. I think that’s a better prep than like a road marathon.

Steve House:
And what kind of background do you look for for someone before they commit to a race date? I’m thinking in terms of sort of training hours per week, how many weeks or months they’ve been consistent, what their kind of injury history is like. If somebody sort of self-evaluating. Whether or not they could think about this, what kind of sort of benchmarks are you going to ask them about?

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, that’s a good question. The thing is that you could do a couch-to-ultra, right? You could do that. I think what’s, Yeah, absolutely. I think the thing that’s gonna determine whether you’re ready for the ultra is how much time you have leading into it to get ready for it. So if you’re like, you know, it is, May, and you want to sign up for a 50K in July, and this is your first time and you have no experience, I’m going to tell you that’s probably not a good idea, Like, what is your lead up time? And what is your background, right? Do you have any running background? And it’s okay if you don’t, but let’s make sure you have a longer lead time then, right? And if you have a strong running background. That lead time can get shorter. Right? I think that allowing yourself time to have consistency in your training is also really important. And people need to assess that before jumping into these goals too. Are you going to have time to actually put in the work? Because you can show up to an ultra without training, but it’s certainly not going to feel good, right? You’re gonna, you’re gonna finish and you’re gonna, be hurting. So yeah.

Steve House:
And people do. Bad idea. Yeah. Yeah, and maybe, literally, maybe injured, like, to where, you know, it’s not really safe to do that without expecting to be hurt. What kind of you know, I sort of think of that 24 weeks, that sort of 6 months as a good minimum runway? What are your thoughts there?

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, I absolutely agree with that with the caveat of like if you have a strong current running background, you know, if you’ve currently like recently done a 25K or something similar, trail half marathon, then that lead time might be significantly shorter. You know, it could be somewhere in the 3 to 4 month realm.

Steve House:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people, when they, you know, have feel like they are tight on time between today, I would say, and when their race day is, they try to shortcut the training process by filling in the gap with more intensity or running more a lot at race pace, which is, you know, we’ve talked, we’ve spent, you know, a lot of breath and airtime and ink on this topic at Uphill Athlete. How do how do you talk about that with with people?

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, and I understand that need, right? It’s scary. So you’re like, well, how can I make this happen faster? How can I make it feel like I’m doing the work? And sometimes that that easier aerobic work doesn’t feel like you are putting in the work, but you are. And the thing that I always tell my athletes is that when I suggest that you do a run, like a long run, I’m expecting you to hike in that too. Because the truth is that during your 50K, or during your 100K, you’re going to be hiking. And so you need to get really efficient at that skill too, right? So, it’s necessary to include that.

Steve House:
And I think that’s also one of the things when I tell people like, hey, I need, I need, I expect you to have at least 6 months and they’re looking at like, well, I’ve got 12 weeks. That’s a long time. And a lot of people’s world, that 12 weeks is a long time, and I’m like, well. That’s not that long. What’s long is 10 years. You know? So where do you want to be in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years? And that kind of changes the conversation. 6 months, I think, is still a good realistic goal. But like you said, it’s going to depend a lot on where they’re starting from. Let’s talk about choosing the first race. I sort of agree a lot with how you approached it, like, you know, do the local race, do it with people you know, do it on terrain, you know, do it in an environment, in terms of heat and altitude and humidity and all and weather, all those things that you know. And that will set you up for success. What do you think?

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, I think accessibility is really important for the first one. I also think that excitement is a very valuable aspect to training for one of these races, right? Like, so randomly choosing one because it’s local, but you’re not excited about it would also be a mistake. So something that makes you like, Oh, I can’t wait to see this terrain or I can’t wait to experience this. Now be aware that, that might include terrain that you’re not used to or that you don’t have training ability for, right? So, I mean, if you’re going to the Italian Alps and you live in Ohio. Be aware that your training is going to be, it’s going to be difficult to replicate that. Dare I say it possible. So, you know, you’ve got to be prepared for like, that’s going to mean a lot of time on incline treadmill. So accessibility is really helpful, but also excitement.

Steve House:
Fair. Yeah, that’s that’s a good point. And let’s talk about the runner in a flat city trying to prepare for a mountain ultra with lots of climbing and they have things like inclined treadmills and stairwells. How does that transfer over to real life when they get to Colorado or Oregon or, you know, the Italian Alps and they’re gonna run a mountain ultra?

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah. I, I always am like, it’s a pro and a con, right? It’s like, yeah, you don’t have the perfect terrain to train on. It’s not gonna, you know, my Texas athletes when they’re training for an ultra that they’re going to do out in Oregon. They can’t replicate the climbs that we have here by any means. But their mental toughness to get down, like the vert that they need, the stairwell repeats, the treadmill consistent climbing. I think that makes them such mentally tough athletes because when they get out there and they’re on that climb that’s really beautiful and it’s surrounded by trees, they’re going to appreciate that so much more. And then from my end where I’ve got this beautiful terrain and I’m climbing up these hills and the whole time I’m training on them like, this sucks. And then like, you know, my race is still just as beautiful, but I don’t appreciate as much because I’m like, I’m surrounded by this all the time. You know, you don’t appreciate what you have all the time. So, It’s, I think that there’s pros and cons. Does it suck to do incline treadmill for hours and hours or repeats in your stairwell? Absolutely. But man, will you appreciate that race so much more for it.

Steve House:
Fair. The other thing I would add is I think that the, The details of particularly the strength workouts become more important for that flat city runner because of something you alluded to earlier, like, You need to stabilize, your ankle needs to be stable, your hips need to be stable, the gravel is going to slip and your foot’s going to move a little bit. Your foot’s going to slip a lid a little bit and you’re going to need to be able to catch yourself, but a lot of this needs to be addressed in the strength training. Workouts because it’s not going to be addressed in the, on the treadmill, on the stairway or the, or the stadium steps or whatever. So the strength component becomes more critical, I would say. That’s the other thing to think about.

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, absolutely. I always include for my flatlanders, a stabilizing specific workout that they do, and it’s just like a little mini workout that they do to help strengthen their hips and their ankles and their calves and all that stuff that’s going to really help them be trail solid.

Steve House:
Develop the balance, the perception to handle it, right? And not fall end up on their face or on their back, so that’s important.

Alexa Hasman:
Mean, we all do that in trail running eventually, but yes, to decrease the risk.

Steve House:
Yes. So everything we teach starts with aerobic base, and the first 50K, the base work does most of the work, and it keeps people moving for the six, seven, 8 hours. And what is the… What is the belief that a first timer may bring into their training that you’re going to spend the most time unteaching?

Alexa Hasman:
I think the consistent running, right? Like that you can’t walk. That’s the number one thing. In an ultra, and I always laugh about this because I have so many years of experience of it now, Especially in like 100 or 200, and like people are running up the hills in the first like 5 miles, I’m like, okay, just relax. We’ve got a long ways to go. It’s, you’re not running the whole time typically, right? So, of course, it depends on the race format and like the terrain and, you know, I jumped into a 50K last weekend and it was relatively flat and so it’s like, yeah, there’s not going to be as much hiking. But for the most part in an ultra. You’re gonna be hiking. And so this pressure to feel like you need to run the whole time. Is something I have to unteach people. And then the other big thing is pace, right? People go into it, especially if they have a road running background of, Oh my gosh, well, I’m not running 9 minute mile pace or whatever. You’re on a trail. Drop the pace expectations. Absolutely drop that, right? It is going to change based off the technicality of the trail, the slope, all that stuff. So like, don’t worry about it.

Steve House:
But yeah, so the material under your feet, whether it’s gravel or rock or volcanic dust or whatever sand or whatever it is, right? I noticed that, you know, as you say, walking the hills keeps people in zone 2 or below, and a lot of runners actually feel like they’re going backwards, as you said, that it’s kind of like, I have to run, right? How do you talk to them about this and keep help people not sort of quitting on the process of running ultras?

Alexa Hasman:
Well, I think you can teach them to hike efficiently where you’re definitely not in zone two. Like, you’re certainly at the top of zone 2, zone 3, while you’re hiking, and what you’ll notice as you’re getting better at that is that you’ll be passing people as they’re running up the hill, right? And so that’s really satisfying. And to know that like, hey, actually, I’m preserving my running muscles right now and I’m fatiguing different muscle groups. And I’m not depleting my glycogen as fast as this guy next to me who’s trying to jog up the hill as I hike, right? So that’s, I think, an important caveat to be like, hey, this is okay. This is normal. It’s part of the process, and it’s a different way of thinking, and we have to get used to that. It takes time. It’s being patient and knowing that. It takes a while to get used to a new way of running.

Steve House:
Yeah, You already alluded to this in the course it ended with the 1.5-mile downhill and on the first ultra, most runners are going to kind of find the limit in their strength in their legs, strength. Before they find it in their lungs, if you will. So the kind of this repeated climbing and also the eccentric loading of the descents, coupled with what we talked about, this sort of stabilization, cause a lot of local muscular fatigue and damage. And once the legs go, The aerobic engine can, And once the legs go, the aerobic engine can’t really deliver the speed it’s capable of. When a first timer comes back from their first trail and they’ve got destroyed quads and they could, you know, you know what, you know what they look like, right? They can barely walk. What, what do you, talking to them about? I mean, we have this happen in the training group every once in a while where somebody, you know, gives us their race report and they’re like, yeah, I am so sore. You know, what do you say?

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, I think it’s important to remind them that that’s, that’s appropriate. That’s an appropriate physiological response to what they just did. And it’ll get better, and it’ll get better with strength training, and that’s an important aspect of this. And with your body getting used to that, and that has to do with like this repetitive use and your body getting more resilient in that. So strength training and training with those miles and having that base is all an important aspect to making it so that the next 50K that they do. They don’t feel as destroyed. They’re going to feel you’re never going to walk away being like, I feel super fresh after that 50K, right? So that’s a normal reaction, but it we can make it less painful, right? We don’t want you like me on my first 50K limping down that decline. So, and that comes down to strength training.

Steve House:
Yeah. And what’s the minimum effective dose of strength training for someone with a job, family, and a race on the calendar.

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, and that’s the thing is it adds up quickly, right? You’ve got life, you’ve got kids, you’ve got extracurricular activities, you’ve got, now you’ve got to train for an ultra, and it can seem really intimidating, and it seems like it can take hours and hours and hours each week. And I’d say that, that’s true and also not true, right? You can break it up into like easy manageable pieces. And with this training aspect of that, You don’t need to be hitting the gym for an hour to 2 hours each day by any means. I ideally want them in strength training at 2 times a week. Okay, that’s like my ideal minimum dosage. And that means that it could be around a 30 minute workout, right? So like we’re making it manageable. But if that isn’t possible, we could also do. A few 10 minute workouts, right? Is that ideal? Probably not, but we can make it work, right? So, there’s ways to make training work for the athlete that has a lot going on.

Steve House:
Yeah. And this is one of the things that we have as a team evolved, and I think, into a really good system where, you know, the original sort of Training for the New Alpinism, Uphill Athlete strength was very prescriptive to and sort of two workouts a week and through general max, and we still follow the periodization and all that kind of thing that fits, but we’ve sort of broken it into internally where there’s like the performance. Path where it is very repetitive and you do do this, the workouts repeatedly, the same workouts and you just increase the weights and it’s sort of like this very almost like being in a laboratory. You have to do the same thing over and over and over again, and it’s kind of boring. And then we’ve also all generated like these kind of alternative paths where it’s like, well, as you said, this is not ideal, but this is maybe either more fun, or because we’re going to vary the exercises in the workout, or it’s you know, we’re going to make it so that it fits your schedule because you don’t have these, you know, 90 minutes to go to the gym. You’re gonna, but you do have like 15 minutes in the morning and 15 minutes at night. We’re going to figure that out. And yeah, sure, it’s not as, like, from a performance point of view. It’s not as effective, but it’s you know, to your point, we’ve got to fit this into life, families, these things that, you know, commitments all these things that that people have going on that are that are doing this. So, I think that’s a really good evolution.

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, absolutely.

Steve House:
We’ve talked a lot on other podcasts about muscular endurance training for trail runners, and ME is a strong stimulus. It takes a while to recover from, and we want people to do it after building, you know, kind of their their general strength, which is also sort of their, you know The, what’s the physio- physical therapist word for for general strength? It’s like structural preparation, something, you know, that kind of, that kind of approach where you’re making sure that everything, the, everything is in balance, everything is strong, everything is tuned up, then moving into like a max strength or maybe a hypertrophy, if needed, and then moving into the muscular endurance work, early enough, that there’s time for that work to be absorbed through the training plan, and it’s done well before the taper. Do you have any special insights in how you’ve used ME or with yourself or with your with your athletes?

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, I focus a lot because I focus a lot on trail runners with single leg muscular endurance. And so a lot of that can be really boring stuff of just standing on one leg and doing boring activities like brushing their teeth while standing on one leg and adding in that little simple muscular endurance. The other aspect is like the power movements in that single-leg position. So single leg hopping. Then the lateral movement because you’re in lateral positions more often than in road running, right? You’re jumping around on rock to rock. So, you know, prescribing muscular endurance in more of a lateral plane of movement than just moving backwards and forwards or saying stationary. So, those are really important aspects to the training for your first ultra muscular endurance protocol.

Steve House:
Yeah, and I think also like with trail runners, it’s important that the muscular endurance is looking like that, ideally, you know, again, we’re, we’re speaking ideally now, looking like the, the, terrain they’re going to be running on. So the best muscular endurance for a trail runners often sort of like long uphill pulls that they can do that last, you know, longer than 10 minutes that they can like set up a pace. You know, we talked about pace a minute ago and maybe RPE or heart rate is the better way to degrade it. Or, you know, just using a time, like, I know I can get from the bottom of this hill to the top of that hill and, like, you know, 12 minutes and I’m going to try to are going to do it as ME workouts as, like, basically intervals up and down this hill, trying to hit those, hit that time. Those kinds of things can be great ways to to implement this kind of training. I,

Alexa Hasman:
Hill intervals are like, the nemesis, but the, the, the best thing you can do, right? And also practicing fast hiking intervals is really important and getting used to using your poles on that. If you’re going to be using poles in your race.

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Steve House:
I want to talk about a lot of our athletes, our women over 40, and a lot of them are perimenopause athletes, and we know that strength work helps those athletes, you’ve got a lot of experience working with women. How does this, how does, you know, if you’re working with a woman over 40 or in their 50s, how does that affect the way you prioritize their strength training or adapt their strength training?

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, good question. It doesn’t change a ton other than that we make sure that strength training isn’t negotiable, right? It’s, it’s, this is a necessary thing that we’re gonna do. You can’t, you can’t get away with and a lot of endurance athletes do this. I go into their training because I’m like, oh. You didn’t do your strength training again this week. And I have to be like, why, why didn’t you do your strength training? When we’re in perimenopause and menopause? Or any aging athlete that applies to men as well? Strength training is non-negotiable anymore. The other thing we have to think about with female athletes in perimenopause and menopause is the lack and the loss of power that happens, and it’s called powerpenia, which I always say sounds like a power ranger, right? So we’ve got sarcopenia, which is the loss of muscle. And then we’ve got powerpenia, which is a loss of power. So making sure that we’re adding in more powerful and dynamic movements, as we hit 40 and beyond, is super important.

Steve House:
And, you know, because of the, you know, joint laxity can be, come an issue because of, you know, partially these things, sarcopenia, powerpenia, like the, the connective tissue around the knee, not just the, like ligaments, but the muscles as well, aren’t as tight. So we need to make sure that these movements involve, you know, keeping all those muscles tighten the knees, ankles, hips. I mean, just super, super important. And as you said, non-negotiable. It’s gotta be done. And I think it’s hard. Like a lot of people like to run because actually they like to run. They don’t like to run because they like to go to the gym. And work out. Like, if they did that, they would maybe be a, I’ve gotten into bodybuilding or something, right? And and bodybuilders hate to run. So, like, it makes sense, like, I understand it, but yet we also just have to come to terms with, like, this is our reality. You know, I’m well into my 50s and. Yeah, it’s something that, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m just swallowing and just doing and not, not stressing out about it, not thinking about it, not overthinking it, just, just putting it on the schedule.

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, and our female athletes, unfortunately, they have to think about it, because they have suddenly achy joints and waking up at 3 AM every night. And so from the joint perspective, yeah, as your estrogen decreases, you have some joint difficulties that come up. So making sure that you’re taking care of your tissue health is also super important as we age as well. And then rest and recovery becomes more important as well. Like I said, there’s often a sleep disruption that happens for females as they go into perimenopause and menopause. And it doesn’t always, every woman experiences this differently, but sleep disruption. And then slower recovery, all of those things. So you need to really be able to listen to your body a little bit better and hopefully by this age we’re better at listening to our bodies already. But also just reading those cues and saying to your coach, hey, you know what? I’m extra sore or I’m not feeling great today or I’m not, I didn’t sleep very well last night. And having a coach that can be like, Absolutely, let’s adjust your schedule for that instead of being like, Oh well, keep doing it. Because that’s not beneficial to anybody, right? So we’re not in the mindset of like, you push through your lack of recovery and your lack of sleep, that is absolutely not an appropriate coaching methodology.

Steve House:
Super important. 100%. Right, right. Okay, so poles, million-dollar question. Poles for the first 50K, yes or no?

Alexa Hasman:
I think it depends on the course, and it also depends on if you’re training with them. So if you have a really hilly course. Yeah, save your legs, use the poles. But train with them. Because otherwise your your lats are going to be toast by the end, and your legs. So yeah, make sure you know how to use them, make sure you’re practicing with them. Make sure you know how to put them away quickly so that they’re not just driving you crazy or digging into you. Make sure your gear is ready and appropriate for poles.

Steve House:
Yeah, 100%. And I think that once you, it’s, it’s also, it’s a good skill to develop and, as you said, develop that skill in training, not on race day, right? That’s always the time tested advice.

Alexa Hasman:
Absolutely. Just like with any gear, don’t show up to race day. Whip out your poles and and try to figure out how to use them on your first climb.

Steve House:
Yeah. Yeah. So fueling in the gut. This is a big topic around ultra running. We’ve done some really good content on fueling for ultra distance events here in the past. So let’s let’s keep this a little bit light, but it’s we have to address it. What is good practice? What is good testing look like during training for race day fueling?

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, what’s different about typical, you know, road races versus training for an ultra is that you have to train your gut too. That’s part of the training process. So you have to start learning to eat while you’re training, and it’s not going to feel good all the time. But your body does adapt, just like in training, to carbohydrate load while you’re out there. It learns how to adjust to that. So, you know, don’t start with 100 grams of carbs an hour. That’s certainly not going to go well for you. But build up to what’s the appropriate amount for you. And, you know, you’re gonna get emails from every nutrition company saying you need a certain amount of carbs per hour, but each person is super individual. So you need to figure out what works best for you. But you do need to make sure you’re fueling out there and you’re fueling consistently. And with electrolytes and hydration as well.

Steve House:
Yeah. So that brings me to my next question is underfueling. How often are we seeing athletes who are under fueling their training and how does that show up for them and then what are those kind of questions that they bring to the group chat or to the one to the, you know, coaching live Q and A’s, that that, that are telling you like, oh, this person is not fueling enough.

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, every single day. Do I hear about an athlete under fueling? And it’s not always on purpose by any means. It’s like, oh, I thought I could skip an hour of fueling. And my biggest indicator of that is how they feel after their run. And I can tell with myself too. It’s very clear if you feel tired. If you’re not recovering. Well, if you’re just like so sleepy after your long run. You’re fatigued, you’re sore, you’re just not functioning well. You probably underdid the fueling on your training run. And it’s, it’s easy to do, right? Because you’re like, well, I’m only out here for 3 hours. I’m gonna, why do I need to fuel? You got to. You’ve got to do that to recover, right? You’re not. You’re not doing it for any other reason than to make sure that your training is working for you by fueling that adaptation and that recovery. That’s the important part of it, right? So I know it seems minimal, and I know it seems unimportant, but it is so massively important if you want to make a difference in your training.

Steve House:
Yeah, 100%. And, you know, one of the things I just help people as well that I think helps strike home the importance of this is it’s, it’s much easier to not put yourself into a deficit, not put yourself into a hole that you have to then recover from, than it, than it is to, to skip some fueling, and then have to dig out of the hole later, right? And I mean, I learned that hard way years and years ago, when we first started doing climbs, it would last over 24 hours and we didn’t know about this at first and, you know, we, we were, of course, had this macho attitude and we thought we were just tough, but then you realize like after you haven’t, you know, when you’ve been working really hard and you haven’t been getting enough calories for 16 hours, like your body will shut down, it’ll just stop. It doesn’t matter how tough you think you are. No, so. Race day lands wherever it lands in terms of someone’s menstrual cycle. What do you tell athletes who are worried about that?

Alexa Hasman:
Absolutely. Yeah, menstrual cycles are super variable. So it’s all about tracking their own cycle and how those different phases affect them, right? So, you know, there’s a lot of stuff out there that says, oh, during the luteal phase, you’ll experience this. That’s not necessarily true. And scientifically, we’ve shown that it’s totally different for every single athlete. So, the best thing we can do is track your symptoms. The other big thing is if you’re worried about getting your cycle during the race, make sure that you’re prepared with products. And I think it’s becoming more consistent that race directors are having products for females at these races, which is great, but don’t rely on it because, unfortunately, we’re not there completely by any means. So make sure that you’re prepared with whatever products you need.

Steve House:
That’s great. Talk about dress rehearsals. This is typically, you know, how people sort of test their, their, their whole kit from socks and shoes to pack, to poles, to fueling, to hat, to sunscreen, everything, right, on their, you know, a couple longest runs towards the end of the, you know, training block leading into the race. What are you talking to people about there?

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, I want them to test out exactly what they’re going to wear at the race, and I want them to do it for about 3 weekends in a row or whenever their longest runs are, because you’re going to find out stuff really quickly that doesn’t work for you. And so the next weekend you’re going to adjust it. And then you’re going to realize something else doesn’t work for you and you’re going to adjust it. Does that mean your pack is wearing on you somewhere? Does that mean you need to be aware of, what kind of socks are working appropriately for you, where you’re going to store your snacks so that they’re easily accessible? How the water sits in your pack, which is something that, I don’t run 50K’s very often, but I did, like I said, one last weekend. And typically because I’m doing 200s, I’ve got 3 liters or so of bladder fluids in my pack. This time I had 2 front flasks and they were front loading me so much. And if I had trained like that, I would have known that, right? That it wasn’t comfortable and it was really bothering me and it was pulling me forward too much and the pack wasn’t sitting right. Those little things, you don’t want to find that out wasted because my mind for the first 7 miles was focused on these darn soft flasks are driving me nuts, right? And then you want to practice your clothing. And that means knowing the temperature that it’s going to be, are you going to be wearing sun hat? Are you going to be wearing a sun shirt or are you going to be bundled up? What layers can you wear so that when you’re standing at the start line and you start and you’re cold, what can you take off easily and pack away quickly?

Steve House:
Yep. One of the other things, I mean, that comes from, from my aside from the climbing side is the, the early morning breakfast, you know, these races sometimes start at absurd times of day. And also with alpine climbing, we often started at absurd times of day. And one of the things that I found that worked really helped me over my career was just having a breakfast that I knew I could eat at two, three, 4 in the morning and be fine and how long it would and know how long it would last. You know, and it’s related to my caffeine intake. It’s related to like, you know, kind of macronutrient intake. It’s related to my appetite because I never have one at that time of day. And it’s also related to just like how I’m going to feel like one to 2 hours later when I’m actually climbing and the blood is moving and my heart rate’s racing. And and once you dial that in I think this translates to ultra running really well. Once you dial that in, like you can just, you know, it’s just rinse and repeat, you can do the same breakfast. For the next, I don’t know, 10 or 20 ultra that you do until like, until one day it doesn’t work, which may, you know, certainly happens, and then you have to change. But, like, gives you a lot of peace of mind and a lot of confidence.

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, absolutely. And I was going to add what you just said is that sometimes it’ll just randomly change and I found that with my own pre-race meal is suddenly just doesn’t work for me anymore. And so you got to find something else. And it’s good to practice that. Good to know. All right, that doesn’t work for me anymore. It served its time. It’s served its purpose. I could get away with it in my 30s and now I cannot get away with that anymore. And so things have to change. So but yeah, practicing that is really important.

Steve House:
I think the concept of the ultra-distance race is super interesting, and it’s, I also just psychologically find, I think it’s really interesting that it’s longer than a marathon, but not that much longer. As we alluded to before, but there’s something about that amount of time out on the trail where most first timers are going to simply meet a version of themselves that they haven’t ever met before. Have you seen this happen and how does this show up?

Alexa Hasman:
Sure, I think, yeah, it’s not very much longer distance wise, but it’s usually significantly longer time wise because you are on the trails. So, you’re out there a lot longer, and you’re gonna hit highs, and you’re gonna hit lows, and the famous saying in ultra running is when, when you have a high, don’t worry, soon you’ll have a low, right? Like, don’t worry, it won’t last. Same thing for a lull. If you’re having a low, don’t worry, it’ll usually fade off at some point. I think that you get, especially once you pass that 20 mile mark, you’re in a position where you learn a lot about yourself and how you deal with discomfort, adaptability, perseverance what keeps you going, those are all things that are going to hit you six, 7 hours into a race that you haven’t experienced before.

Steve House:
Yeah. You have a masters in sports psychology, and you’ve shaped our team’s thinking on mental training a lot, I’d say, in the last years. What mental skills do you recommend someone practice in training so that they are on tap for race day?

Alexa Hasman:
I think the number one for ultra running and trail running is adaptability. If you are not adaptable, you cannot. Do well at these kinds of races because you will run into things that you have never experienced and that you cannot prepare for. And so what it means to prepare for and become more adaptable as an athlete, is practicing that in the long run. Things aren’t going perfectly. Well, learn how to adapt to it out there, right? Don’t wait for perfect conditions to go run, go run in the rain, go run in the heat, as long as you’re safe, right? That’s always the biggest caveat. Make sure you’re safe, but make sure that you’re not always in ideal conditions because you’re not going to be in ideal conditions. Make sure on that long run that you are, you know, dealing with things as they would come up in a race day situation. So that is the biggest tools that I tell my athletes to get used to.

Steve House:
Yeah. On that note, we often tell people, as you just said, that bad patches will pass, but sometimes they don’t. How do you differentiate between a bad patch and a real problem.

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, I always say, you know, get to the next aid station and see where you’re at. So for example, recent 50K, I did this last summer. I wasn’t digesting whatever I’d eaten that morning very well. And I threw up like 3 miles into the race. That’s weird, right? I’ve done a million of these. So I was like, you know what? I could turn around and go 3 miles back to the start, or what I’m going to do is Go nice and slow. I’m going to see how I feel. I’m going to get to the next aid station. Assess how I am there. And that’s what I tell my athletes to do too. Try and get to the next aid station. But number one thing, make sure you’re safe. If it’s something where it’s like, I clearly am in an unsafe situation. Obviously call it. And the big thing with ultra running is there’s this big scary acronym of DNF, which means did not finish. And you will eventually get a DNF and it’s not anything to be scared of. It is a learning experience. You will walk away with it, knowing more about yourself. You will walk away with it, knowing more about your ability, to do well at the next event that you’re in. It is not a failure. It is an opportunity for you to learn and grow as an athlete. And also, it’s likely inevitable for all of us out there if we’re doing this a lot. So.

Steve House:
100%. 100% 100%. A lot of people, not all the people that are training for our first 50K have full lives. What separates the athletes who are able to stay consistent in their training for the ones who don’t. This is, to me, sort of the million-dollar question because I think consistency is the number one predictor of success on race day. So, which is brass tacks. How do people stay consistent?

Alexa Hasman:
Well, yeah, consistency is key. And that means being the weird parent. That’s what I always say. You’re the weird parent at baseball practice that’s running around the baseball field. You’re the weird person that’s like, hey, I got to wake up early, so I got to go bed a little bit earlier so I can get in my long run in the morning. Or ah, I know I can’t eat that tonight for dinner. And so, because I know it’ll affect my long run tomorrow, it’s, it’s getting used to saying no to things. So that you can say yes to your consistency and your routine. And that doesn’t mean that you have to say no to everything. You can still have fun. You can still have a life. You can sell friends, you can still go out and do whatever you want to do. But it also means having a balance because you can’t do things that are going to impact your training so that you can’t do them. And for those of us that do have, you know, children and other stuff going on where our schedules are super packed. That might mean that you have to split up your training a little bit in that day to make it work. And like I said, be that weird parent that’s doing squats at, you know, cheerleading. So.

Steve House:
Spoken, like, sounds like a words of experience there. You know, and you do develop little tricks, like when I was climbing full time and training full time as a professional athlete. You know, there was, there are things, as you mentioned this with dinner, like, I didn’t drink for years. I didn’t drink alcohol. So while I was while I was training for, you know, almost 15 years. And it’s part of our culture that people meet for a beer or a drink or whatever. And so I had to find a work around. My workaround was to get like tonic and lime. You know, people always thought I was a vodka tonic. Nobody ever asked me about it. The bartenders usually gave it to me for free. And it like, and it like, it sort of gave me a way to save face with this. Maybe it was a white lie. I don’t know. I didn’t really lie. I just said, like, I just went to the bar and ordered my own drink. And it just happened to not have alcohol in it. And, you know, now there’s way more options with these things. This was 20, 25 years ago. So, I think that those, those little workarounds, like you said, like running around the baseball field or whatever, like those little workarounds, like, yeah, they set you apart, they make you different, but you know what? Like, this is you, do you, you know, you’re going to do this thing, you’re going to go climb these mountains or run these races, and that’s going to require certain things like going to bed earlier. You know, those are, those are, That’s just the way it works. So I think that’s important to own it.

Alexa Hasman:
Not that I’m speaking experience. Yeah, I revel in the fact that when I pick up my kids from school that I’m covered in dirt, and I remember distinctly one day showing up to pick up my kid from something, and one of the moms was like, oh my gosh, oh no, your shoes are dirty, and I was like, thank God. That means I did work, you know, like, of course they’re dirty. They meant to be. They trail runners, like, you know? And like it was like just so concerning to her and it’s just getting used to knowing that you’re, you might be a little different and that’s okay. And it’s just who you are. And I think it’s amazing. And you’ll find your people that are also the weirdos, right? Like, you’ll find the other parents that are, like, weird in their own ways or and maybe are doing ultras too. So.

Steve House:
Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the other big bugaboos in trail racing is cutoffs.

Alexa Hasman:
Well,

Steve House:
How should people think about cutoff times? How should they even plan? How much did they even worry about them?

Alexa Hasman:
Yeah, I think it’s important that if you are worried about cutoffs to find a race that has reasonable cutoffs, because there’s certainly some races that very tight cutoffs, and that’s very stressful, and it’s something that I don’t want my athletes thinking about the entire race, right? So find something that has, for you, a reasonable cutoff. And then from there, if we’re doing our training and if we can execute, I want you to just not focus on like in my head of the cutoffs. I want you to focus on getting to your goal, right? And not focus about being chased essentially by the cutoffs. Your goal is in front of you. Don’t worry about what’s behind you, because otherwise, if you’re stressed the whole time. That’s gonna impact your performance as well. So, yeah.

Steve House:
Yeah, 100%. So if you want someone to remember just one thing from my conversation today, what would it be?

Alexa Hasman:
Consistency and adaptability are your keys to getting ready for your first ultra.

Steve House:
There you go, you heard it right here from someone who’s run over 40 ultras herself and coached many, many others. Alexa, thank you.

Alexa Hasman:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

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