[george.peridas]

george.peridas on December 22, 2022 at 12:05 pm · in reply to: Longest training day vs. longest day in the mountains #73912

I like that. So either dissect the climb, or remove the elevation factor, and so take the recovery sting off.

Many thanks, Mark, it’s been a pleasure, not to mention educational! Godspeed!

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on December 20, 2022 at 7:59 pm · in reply to: Longest training day vs. longest day in the mountains #73844

Thank you, Mark. Understood on expedition prep. On single-push prep, just to make sure I understand, let’s take some examples. Let’s say you want to do the Sill->Thunderbolt traverse (Palisades, CA) in a day. That’s roughly 20mi of approach, a 6,500ft difference between summits and trailhead, a bunch of scrambling and some mid 5th class climbing. Or a Shasta-Shastina ski linkup would be a little over 9,000ft of vertical gain and a ~18h day, I guesstimate, for me.

So the logic of breaking up the load over a weekend applied to the Palisades case would be to find another route that gains 3,500ft on day 1 and 3,000ft on day 2, which also features a long approach and traversing of a similar mileage and technical difficulty as the Palisades, and do it more casually over 2-3 days? And to prepare at lower elevation for the Shasta trip, I would find a sea-level hike (e.g. Mt. Diablo in the San Francisco Bay Area) that gains 4,500ft, and lap it twice?

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on December 14, 2022 at 11:50 pm · in reply to: Running vs. hiking for mountaineering training #73714

Thank you, as always, Mark.

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on December 5, 2022 at 12:29 am · in reply to: Double duty – Ice Max Strength and Recovery #73347

Cory, I am no coach, but jumping on and off the treadmill (Example A) sounds like a recipe for low quality movement and mental focus drift to me. Why not do the two back to back or just decrease one to make room for the other if the total stress is too much?

From what I’ve gathered from UA teachings, if you have to do both strength and cardio, do them in that order. Doing the cardio first will compromise the maximum muscle recruitment you can achieve and the benefit of your strength workout. If you are not well fueled, your strength performance won’t be what could be.

Even tried bouldering after a run? It’s not the prettiest. I know we have to cope with the reverse order in the alpine (approach, then climb), but in training keeping it the other way and maximizing body freshness and mental focus seem desirable to make the most out of your session.

There is a really good discussion with Steve and Mark near the end (just before 50min?) of the 10/19/22 lecture recording that touches on your Example B above and in general how to incorporate extra strength/climbing work in a cardio/leg focused training plan.

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on November 10, 2022 at 12:06 am · in reply to: Muscular endurance vs. lactic tolerance #72549

Mark, this is fascinating, thank you!

I had wrongly assumed that the heart goes nuts at high elevations, maxing out. Time to rethink that.

The other conclusion is that someone with mountain ambitions who spends a lot of time on crossfit or equivalent not only shoots themselves in the foot by wasting training time and fatigue, but they also develop a higher Fast Twitch musculature at the expense of Slow Twitch, which does not serve them well – am I right?

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on October 25, 2022 at 12:25 am · in reply to: Trouble raising HR to Z2 on long hikes #71831

Makes sense, Mark, thank you, as always.

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on October 24, 2022 at 12:20 am · in reply to: Trouble raising HR to Z2 on long hikes #71797

Well, here is what I am talking about in graphs (see attachments). I did the same ascent as a run without any weight today vs. hike with 30lb yesterday, only continued on for a longer course. No trouble at all getting the HR up! In fact I was venturing well into Z3 on the steeps.

The red band shading shows the 5 zones (Recovery, Z1, Z2, Z3, Z4), and the red line is my HR. Grey background is the elevation. The bar chart shows time spent in the zones.

Let’s see what sensei @mark-postle has to say, but to me simple logic indicates I have to reduce pack weight and increase speed.

(Guess which version was more fun?! I also feel more invigorated after today’s run vs. beat up after yesterday’s carry, even though the carry wasn’t that long and I went 3mi further in the same time on the run)

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[george.peridas]

george.peridas on October 23, 2022 at 11:06 am · in reply to: Thoughts on Diamox/acetazolomide #71790

I will also add that I’ve felt both good and crappy at elevation both with and without diamox. Too many factors entering into it to know whether it helped or not, but I certainly did not notice a straightforward difference between trips where I took it and trips where I dod not. Years ago I just abandoned it and stuck with the simplicity of not tinkering with the body’s chemistry. It hasn’t stopped me from summiting anything in the lower 48. I still remember the tingling in the hands and feet and constant peeing from it though…

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on October 23, 2022 at 11:01 am · in reply to: Trouble raising HR to Z2 on long hikes #71789

Oh good God, no, I meant run it without ANY weight! Certainly not with 30lb… In other words, if there is a continuum of mostly aerobic stress to mostly ME stress, is running on the aerobic extreme whereas a really heavy pack on the ME end?

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on October 23, 2022 at 12:01 am · in reply to: Thoughts on Diamox/acetazolomide #71784

Cory,

You may want to read this by SteveH: https://uphillathlete.com/forums/topic/denali-climbing-questions-pace-and-gear/

He says the following about Diamox: “A word about Diamox. Diamox is a diuretic prescription medicine that very popular among high-altitude climbers, including Denali climbers. Frankly, I think there is a huge placebo affect at work with Diamox. I’ve been to the top of Denali something more than 20 times, and when I was in my 20’s, my fellow guides and I experimented on different trips with and without Diamox. For me (and keep in mind that different people are likely to react differently to the affects of a drug.) I had to come to the conclusion that Diamox did nothing for me in terms of speeding up or aiding the acclimatization process.”

I also seem to recall that Steve and Scott also did not not think the side effects of the drug were worth it, even if it does something for altitude?

I’ve been up Kili over 6 days, if I recall. What makes a huge difference there, depending on your guiding setup, is porters. I was strolling with a pleasant daypack, while seeing locals all around me slogging uphill with a big pack on their back, another pack on their front, and a cast-iron cooking setup on their head. No fancy gear, they weren’t even wearing sneakers even in some cases. Humbling stuff, makes you reconsider your place in this world…

I agree with you that 14k and 19k are different. In addition to the style question over using diamox, I would try it at least once before your actual trek to see how you feel and react to it?

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on October 18, 2022 at 11:46 pm · in reply to: Did the Zones get revised? #71704

Ah, that makes sense now. Many thanks, all!

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on May 13, 2022 at 11:48 pm · in reply to: Troubleshooting performance at elevation and training #67152

Thank you, Lindsay and Rich. I hope one day we will be able to understand better what genetic traits the people who go up to 4,000m and appear unaffected have been blessed with. Then again, I am complaining, but I know people who are floored by altitude at the trailhead (8,000ft) let along venturing to 14,000ft in a few hours.

That said, I am still interested in a rough troubleshooting guide for one’s training. In other words, what you would observe if you had neglected a particular aspect of your training.

Do the guesses below sound right?

– Insufficient aerobic base: poor performance all around, gasping for air, slow pace, legs feel heavy, cannot sustain even a low-intensity effort for long periods.

– Insufficient high intensity training: inability to step up the pace or cope with steeper grades, crux sections, faster pace for short periods?

– Insufficient strength training: legs max out on the steeps, difficulty surmounting higher steps, having to work too hard on even less steep sections?

– Insufficient muscular endurance training: dull muscle ache and fatigue, inability to sustain an effort that doesn’t feel aerobically taxing (i.e. you’re still breathing comfortably and HR is not very high)?

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on May 12, 2022 at 12:35 am · in reply to: Troubleshooting performance at elevation and training #67053

Thanks again, Lindsay. 14 days for optimal acclimatization, huh? Unfortunately for us sea-level weekend-warriors it’s usually a race to get to the trailhead in the not too small hours after a long drive to get at least a few hours’ head start… Interestingly, the paper you link does not recommend the fly-in, fly-out last-minute approach.

I have to agree with you, what I experienced does sound like improper acclimatization. Two things perplex and frustrate me. First, some people who clearly have superior endurance and fitness seem to suffer. In fact, they may suffer more. I’ve been on trips where a highly-trained and super-fit partner struggled more than me. And I’ve seen some of the least-prepared members of a group able to adapt well – without heroics but also without suffering. Second, I don’t understand why sometimes I can adapt well in the same timeframe and others I struggle. Going to elevation regularly definitely seems to help. Being at the tail end of an illness also seems to be amplified at altitude. I’ve been smacked down pretty hard after going high too soon after having some sort of minor illness at sea level. I also wonder how much tiredness and perhaps training tapering have to do with it. Being a working parent, I invariably leave for those trips in a rush, tired and not having had enough sleep in the week prior.

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on May 10, 2022 at 11:23 pm · in reply to: Troubleshooting performance at elevation and training #67000

Thanks for the reply, Lindsay. I am no stranger to 14ers and these elevations, but it has always been somewhat hit&miss for me. Different days, different story. I’ve also had climbs where I felt thoroughly spent and debilitated by elevation, only to come back alive less than 1h later and happily break trail in deep snow. The likelier explanation for this one may be bonking?

For the trip in question, I live at sea level and spent the winter going to/from 8,000-9,000ft each weekend for 4 months to ski. After the ski season ended, I spent 3 weeks of regular life at sea level. For the climb, I went to the trailhead (8,000ft) at 9pm or so, woke up at 4am and got going. We summited at just over 14,000ft at 1:40pm. Not exactly what you’d call acclimatization…

[george.peridas]

george.peridas on May 7, 2022 at 11:42 pm · in reply to: Troubleshooting performance at elevation and training #66795

A bump for this thread, in case anyone has any insights…