[Kellert62]

So i had a lactate test done August 12th, the results attached below. Brief over view they set AeT at 145, from there I set my zones based on TnFUA. Since That test i have put in 116 hrs Zone 2, 48 hrs Zone 1, 4h rs recovery below z1.

I did a HR drift test twp days ago starting with a hr of 135 at got 6-7% drift over the test.

My question are my zone to high or can training fatigue or suppress AeT? Current load is 10-12 hrs a week. Do i need to lower hr to 135 or 130?

Im 20 weeks from my A race and Im not worried about high intensity i just want the biggest and best AeT i can get for it.

Thank you in advance for the advice.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

Topic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on February 3, 2020 at 8:52 am #37294

A few questions:

* Do you have a copy of the test in chart form? I can see the values in the spreadsheet, but it’d be nice to see a chart as well. In the XLS file, the chart is blank when I view it. Save as PDF, maybe?

* Please confirm: Between August 12th and now, your total sub-AeT training time has been 168 hours (roughly 6.75h/wk)? And your training load now is 10-12h/wk?

* If the above is true, why such a sudden increase in weekly hours?

In general, once you know your AeT by a more sophisticated method (lactate or gas exchange) then you can ignore the results of less sophisticated methods (MAF, nasal breathing, drift tests, etc.)

[Kellert62]

Kellert62 on February 3, 2020 at 10:11 am #37306

Thanks for the response.

I have attached the pdf copy of the lactate chart.

Total Hr hours in training peaks is broke out below:
Recovery: 4:53
Zone 1: 48:44
Zone 2: 117
Zone 3: 33:23
Zone 4: 0:18

The above includes a few strength & ME sessions and all hill sprint sessions. Some of the zone 3 hr are off as i had chest strap HR issues and tried to use my wrist one for them. I was also was pushing the 145 hr so i did get a lot of 146-149 time.

Also attached is the outline training plan with total hours. Strength/ME are about Strength: 22:30

I hope this help. Thanks for taking the time to look this over. I was also thinking its about time to get another lactate test.

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on February 4, 2020 at 8:50 am #37408

Okay, thanks. That helps.

Based on your zone breakdown, it makes sense that you wouldn’t see much improvement in AeT.

~17% of your total training time is above your aerobic threshold, which is way too much. (33.7 / 204 = 16.5%)

For goal events of two hours or more, a good rule of thumb is to keep high-intensity training to 5% or less of total training time.

[nullkru]

nullkru on February 5, 2020 at 6:21 am #37494

@Kellert62, just a question how did you get those numbers out of Training Peaks. I can’t see my self created zones in the repports?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on February 5, 2020 at 9:15 am #37504

On the Dashboard, you can add a Time Per Zone chart and then change the date range. The zone breakdown will be according to the HR zones that you’ve set under settings.

However! If you change your number of zones or the BPM per zone, prior workouts and statistics are not updated. You would have to use the Recalculate feature to change your historical metrics. Note that if you do, however, any manual changes you’ve made to TSS will be lost.

Does that help?

[WillB]

WillB on February 7, 2020 at 7:34 pm #37741

Hey Scott, regarding the rule of thumb to keep high-intensity training to 5% for a goal longer than 2 hours, that excludes strength and ME training, right? Otherwise almost any plan that had a weekly strength session would require the athlete to be doing like 20 hours a week of aerobic work, but I just wanted to make sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on February 10, 2020 at 11:57 am #37888

Excluding strength, yes, but ME, no. ME must be included because it includes a very high-aerobic intensity.

Include the ME work in your high-intensity volume, and shorten the total according to your general volume. Let your aerobic volume determine how much intensity you do, not vice versa.

[nullkru]

nullkru on February 11, 2020 at 6:20 am #37965

Hi Scott,

thanks for your answer. I tried it but still got 5 Zones that makes no sense to me. Maybe i will find it out.
But i definitely don’t have more Z3 time than Z1/Z2. In the run analysis screen everything is fine.

Strange but anyway wish you a nice day!

Attachments:

You must be logged in to view attached files.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on February 11, 2020 at 8:52 am #37972

I see the issue.

In the Dashboard, Training Peaks has the annoying habit of labeling the training zones by the order in which they appear in Settings, not by the labels that you assign.

So in your settings, you’ve labeled the third zone as Zone 1. Training Peaks displays that zone as “Zone 3” in the Dashboard.

But strangely, within a workout, the zone breakdown will be labeled as set under Settings.

I have the same issue. I use nine zones, and my seventh zone is the traditional Zone 3. I just have to remember that whenever I look at the Dashboard.

[nullkru]

nullkru on February 12, 2020 at 8:48 am #38008

Hi Scott, thanks this helped :)!
Have a great day/evening. Greetings from switzerland — mirko

[frnkr]

frnkr on February 15, 2020 at 6:21 am #38213

@kellert62 my five cents abt test protocol. If I have understood it right one should first measure lactate baseline then warm-up ~15 min slowly (to get your aerobic energy system ready).

During the test the incline should be fixed and increase only speed. Based on the graph the incline was changed but nothing could be said about speed.

I also wonder why the lactate levels are so high from the start?

[PaulB]

PaulB on February 18, 2020 at 3:00 pm #38396

Hi Scott,

When doing ME work I had not been counting it as high intensity, I was counting it separately, so I’ll change that. I’m limited on my weekly training time due to work and and a kid, so I’ve probably been overdoing high intensity whenever I have done ME work. But I have a question how to count that time.

If doing the gym based ME, would the ME time be counted as the actual “work” time, similar to doing intervals or other high intensity work? For example, if doing 4×10 of the gym-based ME workout (https://uphillathlete.com/strength-training-for-the-mountain-athlete/) let’s say each split jump set takes 30s to complete then the total “work” time is 2min, add in the jump squats, step ups, lunges, and the total “work” time would be maybe 9-10 minutes. The rest of the time is active rest.

Or, would you count the entire session, so the above would be maybe 30 minutes?

These two scenarios yield very different numbers as a percent of total training time!

Thanks,
Paul

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on February 22, 2020 at 1:25 pm #38635

Excellent question*. Just the work time counts as high-intensity. The active recoveries do not (if they’re appropriately easy). And they should be super easy.

However, it’s a lot of work to manually keep track of. If you use a monitor with a chest strap–wrist monitors don’t count–then heart rate will be close enough. Keep your time above AeT HR to 5% or less of total training time.

* You will see a lot of references to “80/20” training where 20% is high-intensity. When those numbers were first thrown around, training approaches were broken down based on a “session goal” approach. The 80/20 breakdown came about based on the number of workouts per session goal, not the actual training time.

[Pete]

Pete on March 25, 2020 at 3:41 am #39822

Hi all,

as there are no suitable lab around my town to do a lab test in order to determine my AeT and Ant I am left to DIY tests. And here comes the problem. I am 40 years old and have been training for months now with upper limit of AeT set at 120 BP. Over the months I haven’t seen much improvement in AeT (guess that it will change less and less as I get older) but last week 3 strange things happened:
1. did a run on a rolling terrain and got back Pa:Hr result of 1,04%. It took me 1:07:33 to ran 6,98 km (so it was a slow run). My average HR was 116 BPM and max was 129 BPM.
2. next day did a recovery run on flat terrain and got back Pa:Hr result 6,95%. It took me 0:41:37 to ran 4,16 km (so extra slow). My average HR was 107 BPM and max was 118 BPM.
3. Two days later did another AeT run on rolling terrain and got back Pa:Hr result of 1,27%. It took me 1:03:57 to ran 6,95 km. My average HR was 116 BPM and max was 145 BPM (during my run I did 4 x 10 sec sprints (not full speed) as recommended in training plan).

After all the runs I felt fresh, not tired, my legs were not feeling the runs. I could easily do another run right after I was finished as Noakes puts it in his book in regards to the appropriate intensity for building aerobic capacity.

What can I learn from these results? Why did I do so poorly on the flat run? Do I really suck so much? Or was I training at to low intensity and this was the reason for not improving as much? As I was reading through MAF method (by which my top AeT limit would be around 135-140, way higher than my current limits) I was wondering if I am training at to low intensity. Do MAF method and HR drift test correspond well to each other at all? I know that this is very individual but would like to know in general? What can an athlete do if it has no access to a proper lab testing?

Anyways, today will do another flat run with my zones adjusted to MAF method (upper limit of AeT set to 135) just to see what happens with Pa:Hr ratio. I would really like to find proper HR zone limits as I don’t have an abundance available time for training and would like to make the best out of every minute of it.

Thanks for any insights and thoughts on this issues.

Many thanks and stay healthy!

Pete

[Dada]

Dada on March 25, 2020 at 3:19 pm #39833

Hi Pete,

What I heared is that the Pa:Hr is pretty much useless in rolling terrain. It is best to use it on a track in a stadium. Even better is a treadmill. Is it possible to redo your AeT test on one of these?

I’ll have to ask though: how do you measure your heartrate?

Dada