[ddb]

ddb on August 29, 2018 at 8:58 pm · in reply to: Weather #13177

Poor weather can also be great mental or technique training depending on the goals for the session. You can use it to test layering systems relative to pacing, see if that old hard shell is still waterproof, practice scrambling on wet rock, learn to climb in a snow storm with zero visibility, and embrace the discomfort that can accompany adverse environmental conditions. These all have their place when actually on the mountain and things don’t quite go as planned.

[ddb]

ddb on April 27, 2018 at 11:06 am · in reply to: How strong for technical alpine routes? #9568

How about a converse approach then? What’s your proudest route/line/send? How did it happen? What had you done to prepare? Why were you successful? What things contributed to your success? Did you expect it to happen? Did you have a small margin and but the confidence to just go for it? Did you have a huge margin and it was just the foregone conclusion from all your preparation?

I get that I need to figure out what works for me, and I’ve got plenty of ideas there. How did you figure out what works for you? Relatedly, what does work for you?

[ddb]

ddb on April 26, 2018 at 8:53 pm · in reply to: How strong for technical alpine routes? #9562

Now we are back to the heart of it. Was his margin larger owing to technical skill and/or strength? I imagine it was a larger margin owing to greater experience and a cooler head from many similar climbs?

I don’t mean to imply Raphael would knowingly put anyone in harm’s way. In some of my climbing circles we have a term called the “butterbag.” It’s basically an accidental sandbag because you either think the person you’re talking to is stronger than they are or you just don’t realize how strong you are. Sounds like your second bullet could meet the definition.

[ddb]

ddb on April 25, 2018 at 9:14 pm · in reply to: How strong for technical alpine routes? #9543

Thanks for that. Wasn’t trying to dig deep into a past life or anything; frankly, DTCB showed up first on a Google search and it seemed a hard enough FA to be representative to ask the question.

I’m not sure what to make of redpointing M10 but backing off M7. On the one hand it’d be easy to say this proves the point, but on balance, there was real consequence and pins to hammer. I have to imagine head game had something to do with backing off. (To be clear, I’m applying no judgment here and certainly not second-guessing.)

You raise a good point about experience and subsequent judgment gained. This certainly counts for a lot and ultimately coming home safe is still a victory. I’ve bailed on my share of routes due to unacceptable consequences and I credit my reasonably safe track record to this fact (at least thus far). I suppose it’s just another case where I’ll just know I’m ready for the next step when I’m ready to take it and won’t know until then.

And I’ll also be taking any beta from Raphael with a bigger grain of salt now 😉

[ddb]

ddb on April 25, 2018 at 10:22 am · in reply to: How strong for technical alpine routes? #9530

I’ll admit I’m focused on the grades in large part to have something tangible to anchor the conversation–I certainly agree it’s an oversimplification. I’ve spent many years climbing and have used cragging as a way to develop fitness and movement skills and used progressively more challenging and committing routes to “sneak up on the boundary.” I’m concerned that I’m not so much “sneaking up” on the boundary at this point as trying to see the boundary from 1,000 yards off due to lack of confidence.

I am a strong enough climber at this point that I have few “equal” partners. There are some people I can climb with who are as strong or stronger, but most of them are stronger on boulders and sport climbs and have little interest in placing gear, let alone alpinism. This throws into even greater relief the mental component. However, because I have so few partners with strong climbing movement as well as strong head game, this leaves few options for discussing with folks who “get it,” hence my post here.

As always, I’ve got my eye on bigger, more committing, more challening goals, leaving the question of “Am I strong enough?” looming large in my mind. I know that ultimatley this is a highly personal, individualized answer, but I also think there’s value in hearing other’s thought process, understanding their risk tolerance, what their acceptable margin looks like, etc. On cutting edge alpine routes, how close are the first ascentionists to their perceived limit? Up to this point, I think I’ve made fairly conservative decisions, but I wonder if a lack of confidence is allowing me to hold myself back.

So, to put it bluntly: where does one draw the line? How close do you push it on bold, difficult climbing in the alpine when the route is more than simple endurance?

I look forward to Steve and Scott’s (and others’) responses if they’re willing to share.

[ddb]

ddb on April 24, 2018 at 9:31 pm · in reply to: How strong for technical alpine routes? #9524

Thanks both for your replies. Perhaps I’ve been a bit too prescriptive. I know this question is complex (and I’ve read the recent series of articles on strength), but that’s why I think it’s worth asking.

I tend to think of the necessary skills on an alpine route (as far as the climbing is concerned) as physical fitness, movement skills (climbing technique), technical skills (rope work, placing gear, etc.), and mental stamina/head game. I know success depends on the whole package, as implied by the idea that M5 with no pro is different from bolted M7. I also want to avoid a false dichotomy. There is a middle ground between sport bolted M-climbing on the steeps and runout, high consequence, big alpine routes. This could be gear protected M-climbing with consequence, but without the commitment of a huge approach, a bunch of less technical terrain before/after, a bivy, complex descent, etc.

This leads me to two thoughts:

1) For this sort of thing to be an “endurance sport,” it must first be an endurance activity, which implies to me that there should be no question about whether you can actually do the move, but rather how many times you can do the move. In that case, it seems the answer is that the point at which you’re ready for a committing route is the point at which the movement is so facile that it is purely endurance. However, this likely precludes a lot of difficult climbs that are closer to the margins, where it’s a bit more of a fight and not necessarily given that the move will definitely go.

2) I might just be looking for a personal benchmark or confidence heuristic. For example, Scott Semple, before you headed up DTCB with Raphael Slawinski, how hard were you climbing? How did you know you were ready for that endeavor? Or, how hard were Steve House and Marko Prezlj climbing to feel confident heading up the West Face of Cayesh? Surely these things are closer to the limit and with smaller margins than pure endurance, so how do you decide what the margin is? (Please correct me if I’m wrong–it’s certainly possible these really were simply endurance exercises and the skill of the climbers is far beyond what I’m giving them credit for.) To be clear, I certainly see the value in working up on easier routes, but I’m also trying to set some concrete goals on the movement and fitness side of things (without neglecting the mental game and technical skills as appropriate).