Something must be up with your forum view, it’s a link to the following:
briguy
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ParticipantParticipant
@ScottSemple – I just have to compliment you as you seem to have a really good grasp of these UA concepts and do a great job in communicating them to the posters on this forum. I appreciate the effort you put into these posts.
ParticipantI’m interested in this too. Joe Friel calls this zone the “happy hard” zone that most recreational runners/cyclists spend most of their time. Especially when running in social groups. They feel like they accomplished something because they went “hard” but it really wasn’t hard enough to make substantial gains, yet certainly not easy enough to serve as recovery for other truly-hard days.
There are lots of proponents of this poloarized methodology (like 80/20 etc) with almost all of them having a middle zone that is generally avoided (with exceptions).
ParticipantThanks Sam – I thought I was doing okay but just ran a threshold test and realized my LT HR is higher than I previously thought and I’m sitting at about 18% between AeT and AnT so I have the dreaded ADS it seems.
Previously I had been doing a ton of Z1 work but then spent most of August wrapped up in trying to prep for a race and I think all the intensity may have thrown me off. I’ll start with more Z2 and then re-test in a month.
ParticipantScott – I think we just posted at the same time. (or at least close enough that I didn’t see your post until after posting mine above)
Thanks for the info. Just a note of clarification, I definitely wouldn’t say I do a lot of anaerobic work. Quite the opposite, I think I’ve traditionally been on the lower end of the spectrum, following MAF for the most part but doing 2 high(er) intensity sessions a week when prepping for a race. In Jack Daniels plans, that means a couple of runs with “cruise intervals” at what he calls “T” pace, which is right near Lactate Threshold pace for most.
Again, thanks for the info. I’m still reconciling what has worked for me in the past, with the UA methodology and understanding the differences and the similarities.
ParticipantI haven’t tried roller skiing, would that be more sport-specific to mountain running than stand-up-cycling?
Looking back, I think I got most of my crosstraining ideas (and methodology) from Matt Fitzgerald. In one of his books, he ranked many of the common cross training types according to their sport-specificity to running (not necessarily mountain running). Incline treadmill work, even at walking speeds, translated very well to running in his estimation. Certainly my experience with it supported his assertion, and it also helped that most of the mountain races I do usually involve a significant amount of grades so steep that mere-mortals can *only* walk anyway.
Fitzgerald was also a big proponent of stand-up-cycling, and while not quite as sport-specific as the uphill treadmill stuff, it does significantly work the quads which I’d *think* should translate to uphill sport.
The problem with “alot” of cross training, or at least the way I’ve done it, is that it forces 3-4 “double days” into the weekly plan. That’s why I’ve always done them as Recovery/Z1, because I’ve already done an AM run on the day I’m doing the PM cross training work.
I just continually wonder if there is something simply wrong with my approach that I’m failing to see, especially since the training plans described in the UA book (and the attitude towards cross training I see here) don’t agree with my previous stance on it.
ParticipantSorry, should’ve clarified. I typically race marathons and up. Usually use modified Jack Daniels methodology, which has often meant lots of threshold work at what he calls T pace. By “modified” I mean I that I do MAF for base building and the easy runs in my plans, which is close to Z1 in UA parlance.
ParticipantSome good info in here but I’m still wondering about “best way to beat ADS.”
Isn’t the cure generally to spend most/all of your training type in Zone 2, which is defined as the range 10% below AeT?
Then once your ADS is cured, you’re free to do 1-2 high-intensity sessions in your week with the rest in Zone 1 (as opposed to Z2). Is that understanding it correctly?
I have the Uphill Athlete book and I think that’s what I’m getting from it, I just want to confirm.
Participantbriguy on September 9, 2019 at 7:10 am · in reply to: Best Heartrate monitor for training and using with Training Peaks and UA plans? #28151If you can’t tolerate chest straps, I recommend the Scosche optical HRMs. They’re as accurate as the chest straps, and don’t have that issue that the straps sometimes have with static electricity at the start of workouts. Battery life is pretty good at 8+ hours rechargeable, but chest straps have the advantage there as they usually use coin cell batteries that will last about a year of regular use.
Here’s DC Rainmaker’s review of the Scosche:
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/01/scosches-rhythm-24-optical-hr-sensor.html
ParticipantThanks Scott.
I don’t know why I didn’t think to actually say what the A goal race is, it’s the Pikes Peak Marathon which is now just a bit less than a year away of course.
Actually I just signed up for a B race which fits right in the middle at roughly 6 months out from PPM. It also sorta fits PPM profile too, with a big climb and turnaround to a big descent. It’s not at altitude of course, but it makes up for it by being about 10-12 miles longer than PPM, so it’s a solid fit for training for PPM.
Looks like I can run out a 25+ week plan for that B race derived from my UA book, then recover and start up another 25+ week plan for PPM. All the little C/D/E races along the way can just fit in with training with little/no tapers.
I’m looking forward to seeing what I can do with a UA plan under my belt.
ParticipantLiving in South Carolina, I have some anecdotal experience with this “method” and doing high altitude mountain running races. I think there is is some benefit, but it’s really hard to measure because:
A) some of what you’re getting is just general “heat acclimation” advantage because high-altitude races are often in low-humidity climates, making the race environment much more conducive to hard work than the training environment.
B) everyone’s response to both the heat acclimation and race-altitude can be so different.
ParticipantThanks for the detailed response Rebecca!
The fasting I have been experimenting with is the typical 8pm Day1 to 12pm Day2 fast window. Where I struggle with it is, you guessed it, when I do a fasted workout in the AM of that Day2. A workaround I have been trying instead is to the morning workout still fasted, but then if needed (with any long and/or intense workout) fuel right afterwards and continue to eat normally for 8hours of that particular day, and then start the fast at 4pm that day instead, fasting until the next morning at 8am. Essentially, a time-shift of the fasting window.
I know this isn’t really what you’re espousing above, I’m just documenting here for discussion purposes.
ParticipantThanks Pete. I hadn’t thought of the low-rpm cycle work for strength purposes. I’m going to start a circuit of the following specifically to address this knee problem:
– Single Leg step ups (starting with no weight and progress) 3×10 to start
– Single Leg Dead Lifts
– Low rpm stationary bike (assuming 15min or so)ParticipantUpdate – I followed the above strategy at PPA this weekend and have never struggled more than I did above A-Frame.
It’s not apples to apples of course as in my previous years attempts my training was different/better, but wow I was really suffering in the last few miles, particularly the last mile where my split was 5 minutes slower than ever before.
The advice I have always gotten previously was that if you can’t get there 2 weeks before, then it’s better to arrive the day before. That seems to be my experience now after 4 trips but as mentioned above they’re all apples to oranges based on training/fitness/age.
This is a puzzle I can’t seem to solve.
ParticipantHi Rebecca – For the first question, I think I am mainly asking how intermittent fasting is executed when there is a long/intense workout scheduled. For this, I’ll define “intermittent” as the common/current version of a 16 hour fast each day (typically 8pm to 12pm the following day).
As to why, I have a stubborn 10 lbs above my typical training weight that I gained following a surgery in mid 2018 and that I am struggling to lose despite 6+ months of pretty steady training. I’ve gone “hard core” in the past with calorie-counting etc and lost weight but frankly that method is extremely tedious and I’m looking at another method that’s working for some of my training partners.