TSS Fudge factors.

Creator

Topic
November 9, 2021 at 10:43 am #59045

r.j.hammond345
Participant

Just re reading the helpful guidance on the application of the suggested UA fudge factors to make realistic TSS/CTL sense for uphillers.

I suspect that I have been making a small mistake. The guidance says “Calculate the TrainingPeaks hrTSS and add 10 TSS for each 1,000 vertical feet of gain.”. When my Suunto Ambit3 transfers the data to Training Peaks I have always converted the hrTSS to rTSS. This is always either a little or a lot lower figure. I then add the factor. I may have been advised to do this when I had an UA personal training plan. Not sure.

Which is the preferred way?

Many thanks

Richard
Creator

Topic

Posted In: General Training Discussion

Participant

Shashi on November 9, 2021 at 10:22 pm #59069

For flat indoor/outdoor runs rTSS and hrTSS should be very similar. But once you have significant elevation gain then hrTSS is a better metric.

For the type of workout you referenced, I would stick to hrTSS and then add the fudge factors. Once you manually update it, it will just show as TSS.

Participant

Shashi on November 9, 2021 at 10:25 pm #59070

Also, you might be already aware but just wanted to clarify that 10 TSS is for 1000 ft (300 m) of elevation gain and drop.

Participant

r.j.hammond345 on November 10, 2021 at 2:11 am #59079

Many thanks Shashi, when I correct this it will put another 4 or 5 on my CTL. It’s like having a climb upgraded after you have done it!

Keymaster

Jane Mackay on November 10, 2021 at 2:55 am #59082

Shashi, when you say it’s for elevation gain and drop, does that mean I should add the two numbers together and calculate the fudge factor from that? e.g. 1000m+ and 680m- would be a total of 1680 metres, for a fudge factor of 56?

Participant

Shashi on November 10, 2021 at 9:06 am #59106

Jane – 10 TSS only when you have 300 m (1000 ft.) of elevation gain and drop.

For some reason (taking gondola/lift down) you are not walking down then use 5 TSS for just the 300 m (1000 ft.) elevation gain.

A trail close to my place has an elevation gain of around 900 m and I have an option to take the gondola back down. Here is how I count the fudge factors –

No backpack, hike up, gondola down – TSS of 15

No backpack, hike up and down – TSS of 30

Backpack with 10% of body weight, hike up, gondola down – TSS of 30

Backpack with 10% of body weight, hike up and down – TSS of 60

Hope this is helpful.

Keymaster

Jane Mackay on November 11, 2021 at 10:00 am #59182

That’s very helpful, thanks Shashi. I had been doing it only for every 300m of gain and ignoring the drop. I always hike or run down, so I’ll be going back and recalculating the TSS for all hikes and runs with 300m or more of gain and drop!

Participant

anram_87 on April 27, 2022 at 6:07 am #66277

Thank you for your help on this topic, but one more question (not english native so might not being able to get the point).

When you say: “A trail close to my place has an elevation gain of around 900 m and I have an option to take the gondola back down. Here is how I count the fudge factors – No backpack, hike up and down – TSS of 30” means 900/300 = 3*10. But “No backpack, hike up, gondola down – TSS of 15” I am not able to reach those 15

But if we go to an example as Jana said, 1000 meters positive and 800 meters negative (again hike up and down and no backpack), imagine we have a hike where we have 120hrTSS, in order to apply the fudge factor we should add:
a) (1000/300)*10 = 33TSS
b) ((1000 + 800)/300)*10 = 60TSS

To simplify it, my question is wether the elevation gain is only positive meters or if it is the sum of ascent and descent.

Best regards;
Antonio

Participant

Shashi on May 5, 2022 at 5:37 pm #66645

Antonio – sorry for the delay in response. 10 TSS per 300 m of elevation gain and 300 m of descent, 5 TSS for just 300 m of elevation gain.

Here is how I would calculate the TSS for the example you shared –

1000 m up
800 m down
No backpack

TSS for 1000 m of elevation gain = 17 (5 * 1000/300)
TSS for 800 m of elevation drop = 13 (5 * 800/300)
Total additional TSS = 30

Another way to calculate the same –
TSS for 800 m of elevation gain and 800 m of descent = 27 (10 * 1000/300)
TSS for 200 m of elevation gain = 3 (5 * 1000/300)
Total additional TSS = 30

Again, these are not perfect and are just estimates.

Participant

anram_87 on May 6, 2022 at 6:40 am #66670

Shashi no worries about the delay!! In fact, thank you very much for the answer and the time taken to explain it in such a clear way.

Now I understand it better, my doubt was the fact of elevation gain, but now I understand that this mean up and down. And with the example we use it is cleary explained (I think it can be very useful because it has a different up and down meters gain).

Best regards!

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