If you’re having trouble with the chest straps (I did too), the new generation of optical heart rate (OHR) devices are very good.
Polar:
Scosche:
I use the Scosche myself. It’s great because it’s dual-band (ANT+ & Bluetooth) so you can connect it to your phone and monitor HR on your phone while on a trainer/treadmill.
I completely forgot about the MAF test.
I think this is closer to what scott was describing in his aerobic threshold test. Maffetone’s version simply has you run a warmup and then 3m as close to your MAF limit. Test every 3-4 weeks and you’ll find that your pace splits for each mile continually drop. Once the improvement plateaus, then and only then consider adding in some High Intensity work.
Maffetone is much more extreme in his application of “base” work than Scott and the UA guys here, but it’s pretty similar. I do the MAF protocol when I am base building and recovering from injury.
I’m learning from Scott’s TFtUA book now though that MAF won’t quite cut it. With a mild case of ADS, I need more Zone 2 work which MAF strictly forbids.
Good question, I’ve pondered the same thing with regard to climbing/trails/etc.
I’ve always done a “ramp test” (which I got from Jack Daniels or Joe Friel I can’t remember which), where you perform a series of 3min speed increases on a treadmill and capture the HR for each, then stop and stand still for 1min, capturing both the average and the final BPM at the end of that minute. Add up all the averages and you get a “ramp score.” It’s applicable only to yourself of course but you can gauge improvement that way at least as the number drops over the course of training.
When I was doing a ton of climbing races I even converted it into what I called the “Ramp Ramp Test” where I did all the same speed-increments but I did them at 12% grade on the treadmill.
I’d be curious what the experts here suggest for tracking progress.
Scott – I get a kick out of your suggestion on taking the seat off a mountain bike. That is great!
Have you seen this concept which takes that idea to the max? (also to max $$)
I actually have an Elliptgo “Arc” (the short stride model) which I use to add low HR volume to my week. In fact I’ve almost completely replaced my cycling cross training with this instead, even doing a 55m ride a few weeks ago in the mountains. It’s heavily heavily quad-centric and of course weight bearing as there is no seat. The only thing I don’t like is they don’t yet have an off-road version of this one, the “MSUB” is just a standard bike chain-ring front.
I’m curious if you or anyone else on this forum has an opinion on this as yet another cross training option.
I have been having issues with patellofemoral pain for a couple of years now. It started when I was doing step-downs as part of a strength routine for a big climbing race.
Mine flares up when I do a bunch of cycling and strength work where the knee is loaded in a flexed position. Typically, it subsides when I’m tapering for a race so appears to be related to load.
The problem is I just spent 6 months recovering from an injury/hip-surgery where I rested more than I probably ever have in my life. As soon as I started rehab for the hip with single-leg loading stuff, boom back came the anterior knee pain. So it sure seems like rest isn’t going to fix mine.
Haven’t had an MRI on that knee, but my orthopedist said this injury is one of the most frustrating to fix as there are a number of things it could be (knee cap tracking, etc).
The funny thing is I got some relief from doing some ankle mobility work on that limb. (that ankle is noticeably less flexible than the other side – multiple sprains and a fibula break contribute to that) But the relief was fleeting unfortunately.
Should I completely avoid any of the uphill-athlete suggested strength work on that side (like box steps, lunges etc)?
They have worked fairly dilgently on updating the Stryd algorithms to account for “power hiking” or walking steep inclines. I’ve been using a Stryd for over 2 years and find it now does a pretty good job of correlating effort when inclines necessitate a walk in order to stay in zone.
On relatively smooth (i.e. non technical) trails it can almost always predict an HR spike before it happens. This is especially evident post-run in reviewing the graphs.
Where it still has difficulty on climbs is when the trail is so technical that it resembles stairs or step ups, it completely drops the ball in these situations.
I find that it’s still a useful tool however I have to take into account HR and perceived-effort in addition to the watts it’s measuring/displaying, especially when racing.
Thanks Paul. I still have two weeks to figure out my route, these are all great suggestions.
Makes sense. I hadn’t thought of going up to a mid-point on the climb and Crystal Reservoir is a pretty spot for a short jog and picnic lunch. Thanks for the suggestions.
Great, thanks Colin. Not to overthink it, but is this one of those situations where less is maybe more? Meaning specifically in reference to going up to 14K. I plan on doing that Wednesday after my arrival, but some of my other travelers are coming later in the week and I know they’ll want to go up there as well on either Thursday or Friday (I race Saturday). Am I better off just doing Wednesday and then allowing recovery after that?
Excellent info, thanks all.
I guess I was on the right track as some of the trails I targeted were mentioned above. I’ll run down my list and some further opinions would be awesome.
Hidden Lake to Timberline – This was one of my options for that “long” effort I mentioned. Taking this from Hidden Lake Trailhead all the way to Timberline Lodge (for a beer) and then back. This will be about 13m with a max elevation of 7000′ but gaining roughly 4000′ in that span (most of that in the first 6m). I actually think I might like this better now based on Todd’s suggestion to get dropped off. Originally I was going to let my wife hang out at the hotel while I’m gone but she might prefer to drop me off and then meet me at Timberline Lodge for that beer! If I do this, I can add some distance on the Timberline and finish at the lodge instead of making that a midpoint.
https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/oregon/hidden-lake-trail?ref=result-card
Cooper Spur Trail – 10.3m roundtrip – I like this one a lot for a ton of vertical, but it’s about 45-60min further drive from where we are staying in more-downtown Portland.
https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/oregon/cooper-spur-trail-via-tilly-jane-trail?ref=result-card
Barret Spur Trail – 9.9m roundtrip – On the North side of the mountain so based on the snow comments above (which I honestly hadn’t even considered) I’d imagine this will have more of the white stuff.
Cast Creek to Burnt Lake – 14.6m loop – Supposedly this is very scenic.
That’s excellent, thanks for sharing.
I don’t have Gaia GPS but I used the Garmin Heatmap similarly to how Strava was shown. One of the advantages of exploring courses in Garmin like this is that I can directly create a course and send it to my watch from the website. Strava has the advantage of probably having more users though (Garmin users + Suunto/Polar/etc + Applewatch/Phones).
Hey Scott and Colin and Mike – Circling back on this old thread. I appreciate all the discussion.
I’m experimenting this year with going out a day earlier than I’ve ever done before (Tuesday before the Saturday Ascent). And I intend on driving up to the summit on Wednesday and do a little low HR work on the Manitou Incline that day as well. Outside of that I’ll just be lounging and enjoying the great (dry) Colorado weather (South Carolina is a hot/humid mess that time of year).
Outside of that, is it even worth my time to try to spend the night at 6000’+ in the weeks leading up to the event? Pike’s Peak Ascent starts at around 6400′ so it would only be preparing me for the days leading up to the race at that elevation. I’m not ready to go full-bore with a $2000+ altitude tent system just yet so this is about all I have as an option as far as I can tell.
I’ve done this race 3 times already (including the double Ascent/Marathon in 2017) so just tinkering with ways I can maximize my performance.
Circling back on this thread. Last year I ended up injured shortly after making that post and I missed both PP races, and the rest of the year to boot. I’m only just now starting to come back in rehab.
Anyway, I’m hoping to get back to PP this year and I have a followup question. Where I live on the East Coast, I’m at about 300′ above sea level but within a few hours drive I can get to 6400’+. Is there any advantage to making visits to that elevation in the weeks/months leading to the race? I could conceivably even camp up there so the exposure could be for 12+ hours at a time potentially. I just haven’t found any literature saying it would be worth the time/effort either way.
Comments/thoughts?
Thank you both for the feedback.
Mfoote – I wouldn’t characterize my lower elevation miles in the race as “really hard”…e.g. I usually pace by HR and shoot for a range roughly equivalent to my marathon pace HR with an upper max of that range as my ultimate limiter. This has worked well for me when compared to my east-coast peers (i.e. I usually trail behind them early but catch them in the last 1/3rd of the ascnet – usually around the tree line), but has frustratingly kept me just on the outside edge of the AG recognition.
Colin – Good suggestions. Frankly the “better to show up the day before unless you can get there 2 weeks before” theory is purely anecdotal and is thrown around by Pikes Peak racers as gospel but I haven’t seen any actual science behind it. The theory is that you’re body is still on a downward cycle after 5-10 days of being at altitude and it’s better to be just 1-2 days into that downward cycle than 5-10, with 2 weeks being the point that you bounce back “up.” Again, there’s simply no way I can go out there 2 weeks early but at least this year circumstances have me there on Wednesday night instead of Thursday so that’s one day extra I’ll have.
Incidentally, last year, when I doubled (the Ascent on Saturday and the Marathon on Sunday), I arrived Thursday, tourist-summitted on Friday, then raced Saturday/Sunday. I have never felt worse at the upper elevations than I did on Saturday in the Ascent. But that was my A race that year, with an A race effort, whereas sunday’s effort was much more restrained (and of course I felt much better). No way to know if it was the shortened arrival-to-race time or my effort-level or what combination of both there.
Again I appreciate the discussion!
Hi Colin – Unfortunately I have never been able to optimize my arrival in CO to properly acclimatize, I typically fly in on Thursday before the Saturday/Sunday races. My understanding is that if you can’t get there 2 weeks before then you may as well arrive the day before. I definitely can’t do 2 weeks before unfortunately.
When I arrive, I just try to rest, eat properly and hydrate to try to minimize the stress of being at 6400′. I have typically make a (driving) trip to the summit either the day before or 2 days before the race. I’m not sure if that helps or hurts (my instinct tells me it hurts) but I usually do it just for tourism purposes with friends/family.
Login to your account below.
