[LindsayTroy]

I’m doing the 8 week mountaineering training plan and I’m wondering what is the difference between the “Muscular Endurance Uphill Water Carry” w/10% BW and the “WEIGHTED 10% BW hike in hilly terrain”?

From the description the weighted hike says keep HR under AeT and the ME uphill carry says ‘should be done as hard as you can… but if you are doing this right your HR wont be the limiter’

So is it just the effort?

Topic

[juskojj]

juskojj on June 15, 2022 at 11:32 am #68264

curious to see what others say. but to me the ME is more weight ( water weight ~8.34 lb/gal plus 10% body weight added on) all out, which should put your heart rate well above your AeT and really condition your muscles for strength and endurance vs the BW +10% on hilly terrain is conditioning your muscles and cardio by keeping your HR under your AeT but the biggest difference is on hilly terrain your working uphill and downhill for muscles vs ME is going UP which is I would think the most taxing on the muscles.

[LindsayTroy]

LindsayTroy on June 15, 2022 at 11:46 am #68265

I don’t understand your distinction, both say to use 10% BW which would be the exact same weight…

[juskojj]

juskojj on June 15, 2022 at 11:58 am #68266

I might be missing something but I was taking it as the ME is 10% plus enough water weight to create the slight muscle burn.

Like this but adding 10%

Muscular Endurance (ME) Workout: Water Carries

[LindsayTroy]

LindsayTroy on June 15, 2022 at 12:11 pm #68268

Hmm.. Thats not what training peaks makes it sound like. Also, why would you add 10% on top of the maximum you can carry uphill and what would you use to add that 10% if not water?

[juskojj]

juskojj on June 15, 2022 at 12:21 pm #68269

dunno….. i definitely understand your question

[LindsayTroy]

LindsayTroy on June 15, 2022 at 12:30 pm #68270

Haha glad we’re both confused

[Mariner_9]

Mariner_9 on June 15, 2022 at 1:46 pm #68272

Hi Lindsay,

“WEIGHTED 10% BW hike in hilly terrain” – Z1/Z2 workout simply with a modest amount of additional weight which I believe is intended to mimic the demands of carrying a pack on your goal day.

ME: see this piece: https://uphillathlete.com/vertical-beast-mode-what-is-muscular-endurance-why-it-is-important-for-any-alpinist-or-mountaineer-and-how-do-you-train-it/, in particular Scott’s comment, “Normally we start folks out with 5–10 percent of body weight if they have no experience with this type of training and are relatively new to hard aerobic work. Many very fit climbers feel comfortable with a 10–30 percent of body weight load. The final goal for this sort of training progression should be carrying loads at above the weight you’ll have on the climb.”

HTH.

[Jane Mackay]

Jane Mackay on June 17, 2022 at 10:33 am #68312

Another distinction is that for the weighted hike you carry the weight the whole time, whereas for the water jug carries the reason you’re carrying the weight as water (or rocks) is so you can dump it out at the top and not stress your joints by carrying that weight back down again.

[Mariner_9]

Mariner_9 on June 17, 2022 at 12:01 pm #68318

Jane – I guess there is a benefit in terms of training your legs for eccentric contraction if you also carry the weight downhill (albeit at the cost of your joints!). Is that correct? Just curious as I have to carry some weight both up and down for my goal events, though much less than I do during ME workouts. Sorry for the threadjack!

[LindsayTroy]

LindsayTroy on June 18, 2022 at 12:12 am #68341

Jane/ Mariner- The video linked in training peaks says you can carry it downhill for ME if its not your first rodeo: https://uphillathlete.com/muscular-endurance-me-workout-water-carries/

[rcj]

rcj on June 21, 2022 at 11:28 am #68413

As I read it, Lindsay, the two are different in that for the Z1/Z2 hike, you’re not necessarily on a steep uphill, but more rolling or lower angle climbs. The ME carry in my plan says it should be Z3 and very steep, which indicates a higher effort. There’s a big difference to me between “rolling hills with some steep climbs” and “push it in super vertical terrain.” At least that’s how I read it.

[Jane Mackay]

Jane Mackay on June 22, 2022 at 11:13 am #68442

Lindsay, sorry for the delayed reply. If you can handle carrying the weight down, then, yes, as Scott explains in the video there are benefits to that.

This discussion might add something useful: https://uphillathlete.com/forums/topic/me-heavy-pack-intervals/#post-63329.

[Mariner_9]

Mariner_9 on June 23, 2022 at 8:16 am #68464

Thanks, Lindsay. I had watched the video some time ago but forgotten Scott’s comments about downhill carries benefiting hip, leg and ankle stabilisation.

[Jeremy]

Jeremy on August 15, 2022 at 11:35 am #69916

I remember this being discussed recently in, i think, the Mountaineering Group meeting.

I think in the ME workouts the difference is that you want your legs’ muscular endurance or muscles to be the limiting factor in your performance. You don’t want your aerobic fitness to be the limiter. Meaning you want your leg muscles to fail before your aerobic system. Therefore the hill needs to be steep enough and the weight heavy enough as to make this possible.

That’s my understanding anyway.