[john-3536]

Hi, Sorry if this sounds similar to a topic I put up not so long ago but I’m struggling to find any info anywhere online.
I have Atrial fibrillation so cannot use heart rate to monitor my exertion/training levels which is very frustrating for trying to plan and see how my fitness level is fairing within AeT and AT thresholds and also if I have ADT and if so how much. It also makes planning for future races hard to gauge as I never know where I am actually at as I don’t have any data!

I am purely having to use Perceived Exertion mainly by monitoring my nose breathing and how easy/hard it is for base training. I find it quite easy to run slowly while breathing through the nose only. The problem is actually knowing for sure that even though it feels relatively easy I am definitely working my aerobic system alone and not my anaerobic system. Also the inability to carry out any threshold tests as they all rely on heart rate info means I’m feeling kind of lost as to where exactly I am or if I am improving at all and how to know if my AeT is expanding and by haw much in relation to my AT and that 7% rule. I’v scoured all over the internet, bought and tried your book to see if there was maybe some info in there but can’t seem to find anything anywhere that gives good and thorough suggestions to training by perceived exertion without using heart rate as the first port of call. I’m no expert and I would say that I am not a very advanced runner and the TFTUA says this method is for advanced runners only really (which I do understand, you can’t beat the experience of many years of observing your own body and mind in action for that).

If anybody has any suggestions or knows of any relevant info it would be very gratefully received!

Cheers

John

Topic

[legume]

legume on July 13, 2020 at 1:15 pm #43545

I’d say AeT running feels like quiet nose breathing. It should feel easy and you should be able to talk in full sentences. If your nose breathing feels forced, you likely have passed your AeT into your zone 3. The aerobic threshold isn’t exactly rocket science but all of use sure do feel the need to try to pinpoint an already somewhat arbitrary value. I think the real value of the AeT is in simply slowing down, humbling ourselves and enjoying running.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on July 14, 2020 at 12:24 pm #43582

What skoflo said!

And:

If you really want to know, I would get a lab test done on a flat treadmill, and benchmark the intensity with pace. Then run the pace to get a feel for it. Once that feeling is vividly familiar, use that same RPE when the terrain changes.

[john-3536]

john-3536 on July 15, 2020 at 11:33 am #43625

Thanks, Slowing down has been a revelation, I love the energy I still have afterwards. I am running approx a 30 mile week at easy nose breathing pace but hard to gauge if that equates to zone 1 or zone 2 training Or if I’m running with ADS.

To be honest I didn’t think a lab test would work on me due to my heart rate readings being of no use to find The various thresholds etc.

Using pace benchmarks is a great idea, I will have to see if anywhere is willing to offer to test me out. As Afib is a ‘heart condition’ most people/places seem to freeze when asked for advice so I’ll have to see how this goes and if they’ll test me… My cardiologist says I’m fitter and healthier than most of the general population, its just getting good training info with this condition that’s hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on July 15, 2020 at 5:03 pm #43633

To be honest I didn’t think a lab test would work on me due to my heart rate readings being of no use to find The various thresholds etc.

Although the HR readings may not mean much, they should be able to give you some flat-terrain pace benchmarks.

As Afib is a ‘heart condition’ most people/places seem to freeze when asked for advice so I’ll have to see how this goes and if they’ll test me…

I would have the same concern! Can you get a letter from your cardiologist, allowing you to be tested?

Also, there’s no reason to go to maximum. You could have them stop the test at anaerobic threshold. (Info about pace and heart rate at maximum is only useful at cocktail parties.)

[john-3536]

john-3536 on July 18, 2020 at 7:06 am #43685

Thanks Scott. I saw my cardiologist last week so will get a note off him as that’s a good idea and hopefully stop everybody running for the mountains!! … and I don’t do cocktail parties so I’ll skip the VO2 test, although the last VO2 beep/pacer test I did I scored 10.5 so it wasn’t that bad.

The pace route gives me hope and something to measure my progression by as that’s all it’s about really for me knowing I’m progressing and staying within that magic AeT! My nutrition is easy to monitor it’s this blinking misfiring ticker that causes all the problems!

Sorry to ask another question but would a lactose tester be of any use to somebody like me as a measurement tool or does this again correlate back to heart rate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on July 18, 2020 at 3:49 pm #43692

Lactose or lactate? 🙂

A lactate meter could be an option, but it might be cumbersome. Usually, lactate is measured and then calibrated with a pace, power, or heart rate. And then the athlete trains by pace, power, or heart rate.

You could use a lactate meter while you’re training, but you’d have to stop to sample. That’s not a negative training-wise—they would be short stops—but you’d have to decide if it’s worthwhile.

[john-3536]

john-3536 on July 28, 2020 at 3:59 pm #43932

Rather than buy a lactate meter and head down the gym to create a bloodbath on the treadmill and the newly erected protective acrylic screens! (which wouldn’t go down too well especially with the Covid situation) iv booked in to a local lab to have a Lactate Threshold Test.

I have explained my Afib situation and the person carrying out the test is ok with this and has said they will try and make sure we get some decent pace settings and RPE references going forward. They will also see if they can get some ball park heart rate figures to work with as well. The test is on a treadmill so I will still have to transfer this to outdoor running but all in all I’m excited to see if I can finally have some kind of guide to work from… I have also explained I am mainly interested in knowing my AeT rather than my LT but I will also get this done while I’m at it.

I will report back once these are completed just in case somebody else with Afib one day comes on here and reads this for reference if they are in a similar situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on July 30, 2020 at 11:16 am #43971

AeT is the most important, but knowing AnT is a close second. Definitely get both tested.