No Aerobic Base. Increase number & duration of long runs?

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Topic
December 18, 2017 at 12:06 pm #7200

Jason
Participant

Question on having no Aerobic Base/Suffering from “ADS”. More or less, since time is one resource I have(no wife, no kids). Should I greatly increase the duration of the aerobic runs/hikes? Not even remotely tired after the planned duration in the 8 week plan. Add fasted cardio, 1hr+, to every single workout day in the morning? (weekend ones are fasted)

History as follows:
Male, 37.
MAF is 143 HR. (Unable to find place to get tested near Seattle, University of WA does do Gas Exchange/CardioPulmonary tests. BUT the machine is being repaired, 4-6 weeks, so Jan).
I do have asthma if that matters? def does not bother me during the aerobic runs.
Used to heavily weight lift/power lift +/-10 years ago. But 200-250kg squat/deadlifts do not transition well to alpine)

Had surgery in March for deviated septum+other. Couldn’t do much for 2-3 months. Started back up in June this year

Been trying to build my aerobic base/cardio for the last two years without much luck. Apparently all the running I was doing previosuly and hiking was in the Anaerobic zone. Using this past July I was roughly averaging around 20.81 miles, ~11-12 hours/week. All apparently in the Anaerobic zones. My AeT & AnT are probably within 10%…. but in the wrong direction, ha!

No pain, no gain right? whooooops.

Picked up TFNA and it has been a great resource! Even bought 2 other copies to give people!

After taking Sept/Oct “off”(very scattered runs/hikes) Currently working on the 8 week plan, week 4, was going to transition to 16/24 for baker/adams summits in June/July/August(not sure on plan, dates in the air).

When running I seem to kick in to AnT after a bit, then I can keep it close with running 30-40 steps? then walk/recover, 30-40 steps run, 30-40 walk, repeat. Probably horrible running economy+suffering from huge aerobic deficiency?

However after these “run”s or hikes’ I’m not even remotely tired. I might feel something the next day say after hiking in my calves, barely. But 48 hours later I seem to be fully recovered? (ie: hiked sat, hardly felt anything in calves sunday, completely fine today could go again no problem.)

Apologies for the long winded post. Thanks!

–Jason
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Posted In: General Training Discussion

Participant

Jason on December 18, 2017 at 1:20 pm #7203

For other people near Seattle here is a Link to University of Washington Testing facility at Huskies stadium

http://www.uwmedicine.org/locations/sports-medicine-center/performance-center

VO2 Max testing is offered as part of our sports performance services. It is an exercise stress test involving an intense (all-out) effort while exercising on equipment that best mimics your sport (treadmill, bike or rowing ergometer). This testing will determine your maximum heart rate, aerobic and anaerobic thresholds, which in turn helps you determine the proper heart rate zones to exercise and train to improve your performance.

Participant

lionfish90 on March 14, 2018 at 7:48 pm #8691

Did you manage to stick to training at AeT, and have you seen any improvements by doing so? My MAF is 130, but I use 135 as top of Z1. Even after many weeks of this, I’m still quite slow in Z1 (11 min/mile, depending), but I’m going to stick to the plan and see how it goes.

Thanks for any reports on what has worked or not for you,
Rene’

Participant

Jason on March 15, 2018 at 10:02 am #8693

Morning!

11m/miles is still faster than me, ha! (at +/-13m/mile right now. ie: walking some)

Yes, still going strong around AeT as best I can. Get tested if possible! My actual AeT was 13 BPM higher than MAF.

I still can’t fully run while under hr<AeT. Probably way to many type 2 muscle fibers from weigh training/mostly “sprinting” sports for most of my life . Which my body is very slowly changing and fixing ADS I would guess. Plus I do have asthma and only get around 90% of the O2.

Per what works? Being consist and extending runs/hikes. I try to extend runs/hikes as I can adding 30-60 minutes as able. I also do fasted when able.

Let’s see improvement wise I started the 24-week at around it looks to be Jan 15th so exactly 3 months. During that time I’ve seen almost a 1:30-2 minute per mile improvement per trainingpeaks. Did not expect this! Recently its really started to pick up. Hopefully in another 3 I will be able to fully jog/run under AeT. The real kicker right now is not being able to go a consistent speed and having to watch my HR like the proverbial hawk.

I will most likely get tested again once I complete the 24 week and after my trip.

Good luck!

Participant

lionfish90 on March 20, 2018 at 8:52 am #8747

Instead of testing, I’m trying to monitor my nose-breathing pace, which matches my HR Zones (based on the TftNA zones), where I can nose-breath comfortably in Z1 (135 bpm top) and still nose-breath but forcing my mouth shut up to top of Z2 (144 bpm).

Does your tested AeT match nose-breathing/ventilatory thresholds pretty well in your experience?

My AeT pace with any uphill drops quickly and was in fact 13 min/mile yesterday b/c of uphill sections. But I do that without being very strong! I’m sure a lot of people would say they want the Type II fibers you talk about and to be stronger (ask a CrossFitter…). I’m here in a similar place as you aerobically but without that strength! My squat/dead/bench/press maxes are truly pathetic.

What happens for me is that my HR increases but doesn’t run quickly or straight into Z3; rather, I ramp up steadily through Z2 but can easily tell and back off without going into Z3. However, if I kept running (slow jog really) I would still get to Z3 pretty fast. Not sure how quickly you mean you cross into Z3, or if that’s a distinction without a difference I’m trying to make!

I also am watching my HR like a hawk but am fairly used to that now.

Thanks for the info on what’s working for you. I’m also trying to extend my run/hikes while staying below AeT. I’m also trying to add doing these fasted but haven’t managed that too well yet b/c of my schedule/poor habits. So I’ll keep on sticking to the program for this year.

Good luck with your goals!
Rene’

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No Aerobic Base. Increase number & duration of long runs?