[Kellert62]

Please help me set AeT from the attached lactate test. This is my second lactate test first one was 8-9-19 AeT was set at 145 bpm, and the latest is 3-3-2020. As you can see resting lactate is 2.1 mmol. It dropped with warm up (15 min), dropped again with first speed increase then starts to rise with other remaining increases.

1. Do you set AeT off of 2 mmol or do i set it at 2.7 or round down to 150 bpm? Or is it set off 3 mmol as that is 1 mmol above resting which would be 170?

2. Resting lactate is high but it was measured at 2.3 in my warm up on my first test, they didn’t take a resting lactate in the first test.

3. I must be a fast twitch guy as in the 60s all out effort, blood lactate peaked at someone where around 15.6 mmol or more after 4 min of recovery. With being more fast twitch and having a higher base line lactate, does one still base training off 2 mmols?

Thanks for the help and information.

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[Anonymous]

Anonymous on March 6, 2020 at 8:14 am #39310

Clarifications:

1. What time of day was the test?
2. How far in advance of the test did you consume any carbohydrate?
1. Your warm-up was 15′ at 5 MPH? And in that time your lactate decreased from 2.1 to 1.9?

Do you set AeT off of 2 mmol or do i set it at 2.7 or round down to 150 bpm?

For now I would use 6 MPH when on a treadmill at the same grade and 145 BPM elsewhere.

Or is it set off 3 mmol as that is 1 mmol above resting which would be 170?

Definitely not.

With being more fast twitch and having a higher base line lactate, does one still base training off 2 mmols?

Yes.

Let me know about my first questions, and then I can add more.

[Kellert62]

Kellert62 on March 6, 2020 at 10:41 am #39333

Thanks for taking a look at this for me Scott.

1: The test was done around noon.
2: My last meal was between 6:30-7 am i did have some coconut milk in my coffee around 10 though.
3: Correct I did a 15 min warm up and lactate decreased slightly from 2.1 to 1.9.

My resting lactate did seem high but it was in line with my previous test from August. just some back info, I can do a 3 hour fasted run at 140-145 bpm without any issues. training volume is right around 9-10 hrs aerobic since August with a down week every 4th week. Energy through out the day is constant don’t have highs and lows.

I seems odd that having a high baseline lactate that you would be held to 2 mmols when i theoretically can be walking around all day at that.

Reading information on Lactate.com from Mader, Wouldn’t we want to lower the Anaerobic capacity? And to lower anaerobic capacity we either have to raise VO2max or detrain Anaerobic capacity. So to detrain Anaerobic capacity, we do zone 2 work with some zone 3 work to push the bodies ability to process lactate? No sure on my thought just throwing things out there.

Thanks Again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on March 6, 2020 at 2:58 pm #39347

I thought that that might be the case. I was the same way when I started training. First thing in the morning, I had “normal” levels of lactate. But if I ate anything, lactate would be at or above 2.0 for hours. Only after a couple of years of high volume did that change.

I suspect that it’s a fast-twitch thing. Like you, I can hit the mid- to high-teens in a 45-90″ all-out interval. Lactate peaks sometimes as late as 7-9′ after the effort. The difference is that I now also have a “bottom-end” because my base is much improved.

Try your next test first thing in the morning and don’t eat beforehand. I suspect your baseline will be lower.

I seems odd that having a high baseline lactate that you would be held to 2 mmols when i theoretically can be walking around all day at that.

Your baseline is not static. It’s not something you’re stuck with. With a lot of proper training, it will lower.

Wouldn’t we want to lower the Anaerobic capacity?

It depends where you are in your macrocycle and what your goal event is. Early in the cycle, a high anaerobic capacity is a good thing. According to Olbrecht, it allows for higher volume, perhaps because AeT is pushed down to a lower speed.

And to lower anaerobic capacity we either have to raise VO2max…

No, the two influence where a lactate curve lies within the range of your possible speeds, but changing one doesn’t necessarily change the other.

…detrain Anaerobic capacity.

Yes, but it depends where you are in your macrocycle. For the reasons I stated above, I always try and increase AnC early in a macrocycle.

To reduce it, you use lots of (to stick with Olbrecht’s terminology) aerobic power training. That will drive AnC down, but if over-done, it’ll drive AeC down as well. (Olbrecht’s “Aerobic Power” is threshold work, so Z3 and Z4.)

So to detrain Anaerobic capacity, we do zone 2 work with some zone 3 work to push the bodies ability to process lactate?

Sorta. Intervals that bounce between Z4 and Z3 or Z3 and Z2 will improve the lactate shuttle. Basically, create lactate and then force the aerobic system (at a lower pace) to process it while still at a relatively high pace.

Whether the improvement in lactate shuttle is the reason that AnC drops or is just correlated with it, I don’t know.

[Kellert62]

Kellert62 on March 17, 2020 at 4:25 pm #39640

Scott,

Thanks for the responses. Would you take a look at the attached lactate test. This one was fasted.

Looking at the chart would you set AeT around 160 or 165 i think that 170 would be high, and where would you put AnT?

Thanks for the information and guidance. The team at uphill athlete go above and beyond by responding on these forums.

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[Anonymous]

Anonymous on March 19, 2020 at 11:05 am #39686

Nicely done.

I would put AeT at 170 BPM and 7 MPH when training on a treadmill. (Pace is more important than BPM, so you can use 7 MPH as your AeT reference for a treadmill pace. An outside pace may be slightly slower because of wind resistance, etc.)

Pinpointing AnT would be hard from this test. As a close-enough proxy, you could use 180. to get a better idea, you could do a DIY outdoor time trail for 30-45′.

If 170 feels hard for AeT, then that’s further evidence that AnT is not that much higher. As such, you’ll want to do most of your base building in Zone 1 (~155 or lower).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on March 19, 2020 at 11:08 am #39687

Just a quick note that having to train at lower and lower intensities is normal as speeds increase closer to your genetic maximum.

Renato Canova, one of the most successful coaches of Kenyan runners, has most of his marathoners do most of their training at 80% or less of AeT. (That would be <= 135 for you.) Similarly, when I started training that slowly, I was able to recover a lot faster, and I increased my volume from ~500 to 700+ hours in one year. It made a huge difference to how higher speeds felt.