High Intensity following ADS training

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    Topic
  • #53087
    KRobinson
    Participant

    Hello

    I have just completed Aerobic Base training to correct ADS and my AeT heart rate is now 175, while my old Anerobic Threshold heart rate was 190 (pre ADS training). My maximum heart rate is 205 (from hill intervals pre ADS training).

    I started on some high intensity recently, however I find that when I do them, I can get up to 3:40/KM pace for an 8 minute rep. My heart rate peaks at 185ish BPM and I feel like my legs are going all out and I just couldn’t get them to produce any more force. Yet I can still breath through my nose for an entire 8 minute rep!! Prior to my ADS training I could do 10 minute reps at the same pace and my legs would handle it well, but my breathing would be very hard (almost all out) and my heart rate would usually go over 200 BPM.

    My question is – whats up with my speed?

Posted In: Mountain Running

  • Participant
    russes011 on #53121

    I’m not sure if I understand your question. Your pace was the same before and after but now with a better aerobic system its much less taxing.

    Were you able to run faster prior to the base training? Is 3:40/KM fast or slow for you?

    I assume the pace is slow for you and you want your legs to go faster and to work your heart harder? An 8 min max rep should be high Z4 or so, definitely well above AnT–it’s in a zone and interval length where HR monitoring may be less useful or accurate, and perceived effort is better.

    If speed is what you’re after and you haven’t been working speed during the past few months, or at least performing some form of sport specific strength training, then perhaps more speed work could be useful. If you just want a higher HR, or more intense interval, then adding incline may help.

    Not sure if I came close to answering anything for you.

    — Steve

    Participant
    KRobinson on #53130

    Hi Steve,

    My point is this, I cannot hit the same level of breathing intensity I could hit prior to spending a year doing ADS training. IE I am much fitter and compared to when I had ADS, I can hit the same paces in workouts with a lower rate of ventilation, but I feel like I can’t get my legs to go any faster – IE my breathing feels fine but my legs are screaming at me.

    Prior to doing ADS training I felt like I was limited by my breathing while doing short reps – now it feels like my legs are the limiting factor. Interested to know what might be preventing me getting up to the speeds required to tax my aerobic system and heart rate as I could prior to correcting my ADS

    Participant
    Reed on #53177

    Training aerobic systems vs. training strength or power are pretty different. It could be that now that you’ve established an aerobic training base, you’d see some benefit from identifying some other low-hanging fruit such as core strength and stability, or power and neuromuscular connection. 8-second hill sprints with lengthy (2-4 minute) recoveries should start to recruit more muscle mass. That’s a very different stimulus than an 8-minute interval.

    Keymaster
    Scott Johnston on #53191

    When you do exclusively aerobic base training you are not engaging the higher power FT fibers need to run fast. They are not well trained currently so your legs are the limiter. MY favorite way to introduce fast running back into the program for someone who has been focused on improving AeT pace/HR is with pick ups. Called strides by runners these are accelerations to a fun fast pace but only held fo 10-15 sec. The slow down and jog/run easily for at leSt 3 min and repeat. I usually start people with 4-5 per 1 hour run then work up to 6-8. These engage those FT fibers without building a lot of lactate so don’t start to lower aerobic capacity.
    Scott

    Participant
    pezrosi on #54045

    Hey Scott, I am very interested in this topic, too.

    Have been working heavily on my AeT recently, too.
    However, I notice that it is now very hard for me to hit higher heart rates as my legs are most obviously the limiter.
    T.b.h., right now I do not think I could reach AnT heart rates by any means.
    side info: I am training for steep verticals so I do mainly all my base work on steep inclines (>25%), which might further contribute to the fact that my muscles are the limiters quite early now. So 2 questions:

    -It is hard for me to see aerobic improvements measured in heart rate. But, measured in pace, they definitely are there. My pace at an “easy effort” keeps increasing significantly, but my heart rate at such effort does not. Is this common?

    -You mentioned “strides” to pick up FT fiber activation. This sounds pretty much like hill sprints to me? As my ADS is still not cured and I do not have any specific race event I train for right now, I do not do any (muscular) strength or even conventional Z3 at the moment. You think it would harm my aerobic development if I add specific strength training (a few 10s hill sprints, as described in the book) now? If not, how often per week (1 or 2 times)?

    Thank you very much

    Peter

    Participant
    AshRick on #54068

    I’ve been through the same cycle. A year building AeT fitness, but I couldn’t really run ~10k pace any faster.

    So I did a four-week cycle (just finished) with one workout each week of 5-6 intervals of 3′ hard/3′ easy. The “hard” doesn’t need to be all that hard. Somewhere around 5k pace.

    Second workout that week was 8 strides incorporated into a medium-distance run. Smooth accelerations up to about miler pace, then slow back down. Weekend workouts were the usual endurance runs.

    My pace at every effort level has now improved. As mentioned, my system just had not “switched on” the faster fibers and the whole neuromuscular activation to run faster.

    The “engine” had more power, but the “chassis” couldn’t handle it.

    Participant
    Diego on #57557

    Hi Scott!
    But is there a way for someone suffering from Ads to prepare for a 65km 2500 d + race in 6 months and at the same time continue the path to improve AeT?
    I know that, as explained in the book, you shouldn’t train on this area but if you keep a high volume of slow running at 90% of your workouts, can you train uphill with specific jobs and do a minimum of Z4 even on the plains? Maybe in the long walk uphill while staying under AeT?
    Thanks

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