Fasted Training/Runs

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #54981
    jacq
    Participant

    When out for short hops 60 minutes or less I usually train without any food/water.

    I was wondering if time out reaches two-three hours or the day is a double run, should the longest run be done fasted without water no food, or no food and sip plain water when needed?

    or

    Should the objective be to get the body used to little to no food or water?

Posted In: Nutrition

  • Moderator
    Shashi on #55000

    jacq –

    I would recommend reading this article and forum topics related to fasted training.

    Here is a good discussion that might answer your question.

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #55006

    In addition to what Shashi suggested reviewing, I suggest not looking for “shoulds”. There are some big-picture paradigms that are worth respecting, but the details always vary by person and goal event.

    Participant
    jacq on #55011

    Thank Shashi for the info. One thing the two links lead to same info.

    Scott, would you mind elaborating on why I should not go looking for a should?

    Maybe I need to reassess my methods?

    Participant
    jacq on #55012

    Also, I am hitting the wall if I go pass the sixty minute mark.

    I guess this would be a nutrition issue, or do I need to push through it for the body to adapt?

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #55024

    Scott, would you mind elaborating on why I should not go looking for a should?

    People often look for The Answer, but it’s never that simple. There are too many variables and averages only describe populations, rarely individuals. So rules of thumb need to be interpreted in the context of an individual’s development. That’s a key difference between optimizing long-term development and off-the-shelf programs.

    The answer is almost always, “It depends.”

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #55025

    Also, I am hitting the wall if I go past the sixty-minute mark.

    This is a good example.

    At what time of day? What did you eat in the hours before? At what pace? How much fasted training have you done in the past? What is the content of the rest of your training?

    … do I need to push through it for the body to adapt?

    It depends.

    If it’s first thing in the morning, muscle glycogen stores are often topped up while liver stores are depleted. So hitting the wall at 60 minutes could mean you have some room for improvement with fasted training. If this is the case, you can extend sessions 5-10 minutes past the wall each time. Be gradual about it.

    If it’s later in the day and you haven’t eaten anything for several hours, then both muscle and glycogen stores could be depleted, so hitting “a wall” makes sense. I’m fairly fat-adapted, but I’ll get a little bonky if I run late in the afternoon without eating anything since lunch. Personally, I wouldn’t push that context further.

    If your pace is well over aerobic threshold (based on a reliable test, not by feel), then bonking around 60 minutes makes sense. If that’s the case, slow down.

    If you’re new to fasted training and/or training in general, then your metabolism is probably more glycolytic than it should be (for long duration endurance events.) In that case, gradually extend the duration without over-reaching too much.

    If the rest of your training is too high intensity, then it will reinforce a glycolytic preference. In that case, dial it back and keep high-intensity work to 5% or less of total training minutes. For example, in a 10-hour week, limit high-intensity work to 30 minutes or less.

    It depends! 🙂

    Participant
    jacq on #55036

    At what time of day? Mornings.

    What did you eat in the hours before? I eat meat, and drink bone broth sometimes not big on it.

    I Mainly eat fish some vegetables, nuts/seeds, eggs. A little fruit mainly strawberries.

    At what pace? Pace unknown going by feel and training without gps.

    To me it feels I am going slow compared to other runners on the same trail. However, It seems what, might be slow to me, may not be to my body.

    How much fasted training have you done in the past? I have always gone for runs fasted since I was in my twenties (40’s now), and I have always hit a wall at the 60+ minute mark.

    I should preface the above that in my twenties I was extremely overweight for my height.

    What is the content of the rest of your training? Some bodyweight training, No weight lifting yet.

    It would seem I have alot of adjustments to make, all of them major.

    Participant
    jacq on #55356

    Should I be doing something different based on the answers I gave?

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #55359

    I asked the questions only to illustrate that training is never a simple answer. If you go by the general guidelines that I gave, you should be all set.

    For more specific advice, feel free to set up a phone consult with one of our coaches. (Specific coaching isn’t possible due to the number of forum questions we get.)

    Participant
    Mariner_9 on #55676

    Hi jacq,

    My reading of TFNA is that the idea is to get used to training without food (fat adaptation), not without water. Hopefully someone will correct me here if I’m wrong on that. FWIW, I do most of my aerobic training fasted but always take water if it’s over an hour or if it’s especially hot.

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #55712

    Yes, that’s correct. There’s no reason not to take water (other than it’s heavy… 🙂 )

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