AeT Retest HR drop

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    Topic
  • #48484
    hawkinscary23
    Participant

    Hi,
    I have been following TftMA and did about 3 months of the 24 week expeditionary mountaineering plan right around the time of successfully quitting smoking. I am switching over to Mike Foote’s Big Vert plan as the first goal I have with my training partner is a single day of Glacier Peak in the Cascades. This led me to retest my AeT for the third time. The first time when I first started training I tested at an AeT HR of 125. The second test came back at 145 for AeT after 45 days. Now on this retest this time using a treadmill rather than outside it dropped down to 130, is this a sign of overtraining? How would I be able to approach the Big Vert plan if I am not able to run at that HR on anything but flat ground? For instance even at a 25 min mile pace on Little Si my heart rate is often around 140 for the first section that gains around 600ft of elevation in about 1/4 mile before flattening out some. Any guidance for what I should do? Should I stay on the treadmill for a while to try to bring my pace down before adding any vert?

  • Moderator
    Scott Semple on #48523

    There are too many moving parts in this to make any conclusions.

    For the treadmill test:

    * Did you warm up gradually for at least 15′ and then hold the speed constant for the following 60′?
    * Can you post a link to the session from Training Peaks?

    Participant
    hawkinscary23 on #48538

    Hi Scott,
    I did warm up gradually starting with a very light jog at 115 bpm and kept that for 20 minutes. I then spent 5-6 minutes at each HR level before testing with a lactate plus meter. The distance is not correct on training peaks. My suunto 9 does not do well with detecting steps on the treadmill I have.
    The dips in HR came from stopping to test. My results were as follows on lactate levels
    125 bpm – 1.4mmol/L
    135 bpm – 2.7mmol/L
    145 bpm – 3.1mmol/L

    Previous test had me at 2.0mmol/L at 145 bpm on an outside test on a trail that is relatively flat at a 500ft of elevation gain that happens in 6 miles.
    http://tpks.ws/2WH3DZB75SKS7TI4FEYTRMETSU

    Participant
    hawkinscary23 on #48539

    Training peaks link
    http://tpks.ws/2WH3DZB75SKS7TI4FEYTRMETSU

    Spectator
    Scott Johnston on #48570

    There’s a lot to unpack here so let me begin by saying that we can’t tell you that you are overtrained or not. Just having a lower heart rate in the last test is not conclusive of OTS. Do you have some of the other symptoms of OTS?

    Next: I think there is a much bigger chance that your tests were no done well enough. I’ve never seen an improvement of 20 beats in 2.5 months. That would be remarkably rapid and I guess it might be possible, I’m suspicious.

    Then: As with any experiment the conditions need to be as similar as possible to the previous test. If you were a bit tired that could easily result in the lower HR although I still think the second test is fishy.

    Also: The Big Vert plan is for advanced runner with a good aerobic base (as explained in the plan’s description). We recommend it only for those already comfortable doing around 50+ miles/week. This does not meant you once ran 50 miles in a week or that your peak weeks might hit 50 miles. I means consistently running 50 miles a week without become excessively fatigued. You are right to question your use of this plan if you can’t keep your HR in check.

    Lastly: This initial section of the Mt Si trail averages 35%. This is a STEEP trail in anyones book. I know very few, if any people who could run that gradient for that long and stay in Z2 unless they were taking tiny steps. Did you do a long warm up before you het that hill. The aerobic system takes a long time to come on line and if you head steeply up hill right out of the parking lot like trail does your aerobic system will not have time to come up to full capacity unless you start very, very slowly. 22min/mile is not slow for a 35% grade.

    I hope this info an help you

    Scott

    Participant
    hawkinscary23 on #48640

    That info helps a lot thank you! Would you have a recommended plan that would work well for a car to car of Glacier peak with a goal time of sub 8 hours but would like to push it lower if possible. My original reason for getting the Big Vert plan was it did have some scaling towards a 50k with a larger amount of vert which Glacier does have at 3050m roughly in elevation gain total. And our goal is more running/fast and light alpine style than traditional mountaineering. Or would it make sense for me to go the coach route considering my ADS and long time away from training? I do have a history of training but it has been over a decade since doing so for endurance/mountain efforts.

    Spectator
    Scott Johnston on #48662

    The Big Vert plan is a perfect choice for an objective lie you are planning. My concern relates to your preparedness for such a demanding plan not as to the plans efficacy. There’s no better plan than this one. The plan along with your objective will require a big aerobic base to pull off. Not that you can’t do Glacier peak in under 8 hours without this plan.

    I’m just saying that IF you can execute this plan well I’m pretty darned sure you can do this.

    Can you run regular 50mile weeks? Even 40 mile/week? If not I would recommend an extended aerobic base building program to get your aerobic house in order and develop the running specific leg strength to pull that off injury free.

    We’d love to help you with coaching but we are full at the moment and have a waiting list. If you need to build the base I’ve been mentioning than you don’t need a coach. You can follow a very simple and gradual plan to build up. There are a number of example plans in our book Training for the Uphill Athlete

    I hope this helps.
    Scott

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