Season One Recap

01:00:05:10 – 01:00:07:12
Steve
How do you want to be remembered?

01:00:07:14 – 01:00:11:10
Lydia
As funny.

01:00:11:12 – 01:00:14:19
Lydia
As, positive and as good company, I guess.

01:00:14:21 – 01:00:29:11
Barry
I just said I want to be remembered as a good father. That is the most important thing that I’ve done in my life that I will do in my life.

01:00:29:13 – 01:00:38:04
Vince
I just want to be remembered by the people that know me or knew me directly.
As as a positive presence in their lives. That. That’s all. That I was a nice person. Really.

01:00:38:06 – 01:00:49:04
Sasha
I think that I’d love to be remembered as someone that made the outdoors and climbing and general lifted and more welcoming.

01:00:49:06 – 01:00:51:07
Steve
How do you want to be remembered Jimmy?

01:00:51:09 – 01:01:10:17
Jimmy
I want to be remembered that I stayed authentic and that I kept it real. You know, if my children remember me as being that, then I’m I want. I’m happy.

01:00:11:09 – 01:01:09:17
Conrad
I’m not worried about what people are going to think about me in the future when I’m dead. So that makes sense.

01:00:09:20 – 01:01:24:17
Rick
That’s what I want to leave you guys with here, that go out there and do what your skills are good at to do what you can.

01:01:24:19 – 01:01:27:04
Steve
How do you want Ed Viesturs to be remembered?

01:01:27:06 – 01:02:15:01
Ed
You know, just having lived a life that I chose, that was different, but that made me happy. And hopefully, I was humble and respectful for the mountains and the people that I was with. And I treated people well, and I have no regrets. And that I just. Kind of went out there and honestly lived my dream.

01:02:15:03 – 01:02:42:05
Alyssa
Hi, everyone. Well, you are hearing a different voice today. This is Alyssa Clark, and normally I’m behind the scenes of our voice of the mountains podcast. But today I will be the host, and I am joined by your normal host, Steve House, who is going to be on the other side of the microphone today. And our head of research and writing, Jamie Lyko, who will also be joining us.

01:02:42:05 – 01:02:45:07
Alyssa
So thank you both for being here.

01:02:45:09 – 01:02:46:11
Steve
Thanks a lot, sir.

01:02:46:13 – 01:02:49:03
Jamie
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

01:02:49:05 – 01:03:13:21
Alyssa
Of course. So the purpose of our episode today is we’re going to be doing a recap of the episodes of voice of the mountains and diving into our favorite moments. Most surprising. And did we accomplish what we wanted to? We’re also be throwing in a few fun extra tidbits and buckle up. This should be a lot of fun.

01:03:13:23 – 01:03:29:12
Alyssa
So first off, I want to start with Steve talking about why we decided to do this episode, because there are quite a few back in force in meetings, before we came to our final decision. But Steve Love to hear from you.

01:03:29:14 – 01:04:03:15
Steve
Yeah, it’s it took a long time for this idea to gestate and come to life years actually. And it really kind of goes back to, you know, even the training for the new output is a book where, I wrote this chapter about mental training, the most difficult 80%, but it’s also the piece we speak about and teach about the least, and trying to find a place to, to, to give life to that conversation.

01:04:03:17 – 01:04:34:16
Steve
But you pretty quickly, when you think about these things, realize it’s more than just mental. It’s also very emotional and human beings are emotional creatures first and logical creatures second. So this is an important avenue of exploration, and it was really unclear as to how it was going to work and what we were going to talk about, who we’re going to speak to and how we are going to express this and explore this, because it’s not like we were from the beginning.

01:04:34:16 – 01:04:41:23
Steve
We said, we don’t have the answers. We just want to go on a creative exploration. How is that for you, Jim?

01:04:42:00 – 01:05:01:21
Jamie
I think it was extremely exciting because I don’t have the background that you guys have in mountain sports. So a lot of these people, I was meeting them for the first time as I tried to research them. And, generally, I write predominantly narrative, pieces. So I’m kind of deciding what the story is going to be.

01:05:01:21 – 01:05:20:08
Jamie
And so it was it was interesting to try to help you, have the questions in the background so that you could get their story out of them. And then it was a lot of fun to kind of see what we were left with after. And you know, how much we got out of your interviews.

01:05:20:10 – 01:05:52:19
Steve
And, you know, as an aside, that’s on purpose that you’re from outside of mountain sports, in a sense, you have a running strong running background, track and field, that kind of thing, middle distance. But also with the guy that made the short films that we accompany these explorations, Christian. He comes from cycling. So I want creative partners that come from outside of climbing and running and skiing whenever I can, because I want a fresh perspective.

01:05:52:21 – 01:06:13:11
Steve
I want help seeing the universality of these things. I’m so close to it, and it’s so much my life and my identity that I understand that I don’t have all the perspective it has to what resonates universally and what may not. So, I thank you for that because you were actually really great at shaping these narratives.

01:06:13:11 – 01:06:21:13
Steve
And in many, many cases put me on to ideas with these guests that frankly, I just was blind to.

01:06:21:15 – 01:06:26:22
Jamie
Well, thanks for the opportunity. It’s been, a very interesting creative process.

01:06:26:24 – 01:06:34:10
Alyssa
So, Steve, why did you want to do this episode in particular? What was the interest behind doing a recap episode?

01:06:34:16 – 01:07:01:24
Steve
Yeah, well, we recorded the last episode, voice to the mountains and over a month ago now, and we immediately started talking about voice of the mountain season two. I mean, that wasn’t necessarily ever part of the plan. The part of it was really to just going to be, in my mind, it was going to be 10 or 12 episodes and that would be it and kind of accomplish our goal or not.

01:07:02:01 – 01:07:23:01
Steve
So I thought it was really interesting that people resonated with it enough that they wanted more, but they wanted to kind of shift it somewhere else a little bit. And it wasn’t clear where that was. So then immediately the question came up like, well, where have we been? You know, before we decide what we want to cover next, we have to make sure we understand what we’ve already been over.

01:07:23:01 – 01:07:49:18
Steve
So we are just repeating ourselves. I don’t want to do a voice of the mountains to that is just a repeat of season one with just slightly different guests, but the same ideas that’s going to get boring really fast for the listeners and also for for us in this creative exploration. So yeah, it’s just a to look back, see where we were, where we came from, what we covered, see what the lowlights were, or see what the challenges were, but also kind of recount some of the highlights.

01:07:49:18 – 01:08:02:19
Steve
And you know, maybe this is even a point of entry for people who have not listened to the other voice of the mountains, where they can just hear the best and the worst parts, and then maybe go back and listen to some of the some of the episodes that they want to or not.

01:08:02:23 – 01:08:25:18
Alyssa
So love it. And I think we’re truly following what it means to be a good mountain athlete. The debrief is, the one of the most important parts of the whole process is going back talking about what went right and what went wrong. So we’re really, yeah, following that process as well. So let’s get into.

01:08:25:20 – 01:08:26:00
Steve
Our.

01:08:26:00 – 01:08:37:22
Alyssa
Highlights. Let’s jump in with your favorite moments from season one. So Jamie, if I can put you on the spot, do you want to lead us off?

01:08:37:24 – 01:08:59:15
Jamie
I mean, everybody was amazing. I thought I could listen to Lydia tell stories all day long. She she was she was hilarious and a lot of fun. On a more poignant note, in her episode, she talked about Maori cultures and, different view of mentorship that they have, that it goes both ways. And old mentors, young and young mentors old.

01:08:59:15 – 01:09:16:03
Jamie
And I found that fascinating. And I feel like Steve, you kind of you know, you’ve talked a lot about that. You know, one of the North Stars for this being what is the podcast I would have listened to when I was 22 or 20 4 or 25. And I think that was a really interesting way to look at it.

01:09:16:05 – 01:09:28:18
Jamie
But also, I think you had some people on that. I think you learned a lot from that. Our younger and at our an earlier point in your career. So, that point that Lydia made really, really resonated.

01:09:28:20 – 01:09:55:03
Steve
This is stated often, but just to recap this sort of mission statement for voice of the mountains was to explore the mental and emotional adventures found in discovering who we are and what we’re capable of, to engage in self-reflection and humility and embrace the beauty and struggles of the alpine experiences. Equally, in terms of self-reflection and humility, I think the episode with Corey Richards kind of takes the cake on that.

01:09:55:05 – 01:10:37:17
Steve
He has gone deep on self-reflection and humility and self-development and, written an incredible book about it that we covered in another additional podcast episode on the podcast. So in that way, I felt like the core episode was incredible. The other one that stands out in that way, I think, is the episode with Barry Blanchard, which was our initial, episode, which, by the way, I was drenched in sweat, but it’s after that even started, you know, so interesting that for me as a host, to, like, be so incredibly nervous.

01:10:37:17 – 01:10:59:19
Steve
I haven’t been nervous or anything like that. I have not been that nervous for anything in a very long time. And, you know, that got less and less over the over the course of the ten episodes. But initially I was just a wreck going into that, and it drained me and Barry, you know, shared stories that, you know, I’d never heard.

01:10:59:19 – 01:11:32:19
Steve
And this is somebody I’ve known deeply for 30 years of my life. So that was pretty wild to hear some of the things that he’s gone through, in his, in his life, particularly his early life. And there probably things that are, you know, not exactly the same for other people, but a lot of people have things like that that are buried inside of them that haven’t been able to see the light of, of day and the light of compassion and the light of, empathy and a very, very, very long time.

01:11:32:19 – 01:11:34:18
Steve
So that was pretty powerful, too.

01:11:34:20 – 01:12:04:04
Alyssa
Yes, I will say still, when we’ve talked about most shocking moments when Barry was saying I would have killed him, I think Jamie and I were on the call and we might have audibly gasped. If you could have heard us, it’s still a moment, just the you could feel the emotion in his voice and just how that situation still is so powerful in who he is.

01:12:04:06 – 01:12:16:10
Jamie
It was extremely visceral, and we almost took a turn real fast to becoming like a true crime podcast, which would have been harder to maintain for ten episodes. But yeah, Barry’s story was awesome.

01:12:16:12 – 01:12:20:05
Steve
We would have had a way bigger. The true kind of.

01:12:20:07 – 01:12:57:18
Alyssa
It’s true. I don’t know how people I can not listen to any of those. When I’m out running, I get way too scared. I’ll say. I think, and I know, Steve, you brought this up in other areas and it got LinkedIn and a few other places will get talking about inviting people in. And his story of when he found some climbers who I think they were bolting, or they were damaging the wall in some way and instead of chastising them, he helped teach and openly welcomed them into the community.

01:12:57:20 – 01:13:27:12
Alyssa
And I just felt that was so powerful, especially to be honest, in this day and age where we see people make mistakes and they’re canceled or they’re outcast on social media, and instead of, well, buying into that, he takes it the opportunity to say, no, come be a part of the community so we can learn. And I think that mentorship was such a theme drawn through so many of these episodes.

01:13:27:12 – 01:13:51:07
Alyssa
I mean, I saw it in Sasha, did Jillian’s, where she said, hey, don’t give me beta because I’m a woman trying to kill her. She was crushing the clients, but she’s like, I don’t need your beta. Like, let me just be a climber. And then the point with Lydia, Conrad Anker, like all of those mentorship was such a huge piece.

01:13:51:07 – 01:13:55:04
Alyssa
But I really loved Will’s points of calling people, and.

01:13:55:06 – 01:14:20:18
Steve
That was also really interesting for me because I haven’t I will is another one of the guests who I’ve known him for about 25 years, but I haven’t been very close to him or seen him much in the last 5 to 10 years. And, you know, it’s so interesting to have known that Will, that was, you know, when I was 25, who is totally different.

01:14:20:20 – 01:14:41:00
Steve
He was kind of an asshole, frankly. And, you know, he would probably say that too. He wouldn’t have been that person that could have done that. He was young. So it’s really I had an extra dimension of appreciation for that because I saw how much he’s changed. And I was really like, wow, this is this is a this is a will I didn’t know about.

01:14:41:00 – 01:14:52:21
Steve
And I’m so proud that he is this this man now and is in is showing up in this way for these other people, but also just for our community. I mean, what an example to set.

01:14:52:23 – 01:15:16:02
Alyssa
Yeah. I mean, I think it’s interesting that you say you kind of knew him then and now hearing this, but you’ve also said that about yourself where we’ve talked about situations. So you’re like, oh, 25 year old me wouldn’t have even been invited to this conversation. Yeah. So maybe 25 year old Stephen Will can hear this in maybe a few years earlier.

01:15:16:04 – 01:15:40:22
Steve
That’s part of what I was wanting to explore, frankly. Like these are the ideas, like, what is it that these mountains sports help us to become? You know, I started off as a pretty rough around the edges, you know, kid who had some very strong black and white sort of beliefs. And wow, that got me to a certain level.

01:15:40:24 – 01:16:09:24
Steve
You know, it also caused me to sort of hit a ceiling in my, my, my growth as a human for a long time. And I think it’s interesting to have these, these and we we called this out in the beginning. I think you wrote this, these lines, Jamie, about how we wanted to because we wanted to call out the fact that we are going to mostly lean on the older generation of uphill athletes, not because we want the younger generation doesn’t have anything to say.

01:16:09:24 – 01:16:34:24
Steve
They do. But the younger generation, the older generation could kind of have this advantage of hindsight and that is an advantage. So hopefully there are some of the younger climbers and runners and skiers out there listening to those conversations and, and maybe not. These changes don’t happen overnight. Right. But maybe it just like cracks the cracks the window a little bit on some other possibilities.

01:16:35:01 – 01:16:56:18
Jamie
Yeah, I think there I mean those changes come incrementally. We’ve we’ve talked about this. You know, you don’t you read a bunch of books that change your life, you don’t read one, and then suddenly you’re completely, fully evolved, you know, and I see a lot of I found that to be a common theme throughout with a lot of the guests of that kind of recognition.

01:16:56:20 – 01:17:11:02
Jamie
It took me a while to get to have the perspective that I have. And so, you know, if you can speed up that process a little bit for, you know, younger athletes by continuing stuff like voice in the mountain, then you know, all the better.

01:17:11:04 – 01:17:43:10
Alyssa
I think this series also opened up the door that you can be competitive and you can be compassionate. They are not mutually exclusive. And so often I think and I this is something is an evolution as an athlete. I talked about this with my coach. I mean, Steve, we’ve talked about this is that hard exterior that deep. Like I just have to be I have to be tougher, stronger, better than everyone else to be the absolute best.

01:17:43:10 – 01:17:55:21
Alyssa
And it’s like, well, no, not necessarily. You can also be compassionate and caring and vulnerable. And that actually might get you further down.

01:17:55:21 – 01:17:58:22
Steve
I would argue there that it does get you further.

01:17:58:22 – 01:18:01:12
Alyssa
Yeah, I would agree.

01:18:01:14 – 01:18:19:05
Jamie
I mean, even if it doesn’t always get you further, it costs you nothing. You know, like it’s it’s it’s not taking it’s not detracting from your accomplishments by doing it, you know, accomplishing gracefully. You’re accomplishing, you know, and then looking back over your shoulder and cheering for the person behind you, you know, this doesn’t make you weak.

01:18:19:07 – 01:18:48:11
Steve
I think that the people who are not achieving the top level are often the ones who I think subconsciously, are asking for that hard, kind of cutthroat exterior from their champions because it somehow makes them feel, better about not being the champions themselves. And that’s sort of a big statement. But the problem with competition, that, I would argue, is that there’s only one winner.

01:18:48:13 – 01:19:15:19
Steve
And a lot of people go out and try their hardest, and then we only celebrate one of them. And I think that there’s, you know, this is one of the things that I think mountain sports has to teach society at large, is that it we society celebrates that kind of winner take all mentality. We have Super Bowls and all the other things, and I understand the commercial value of that, and that’s a different story.

01:19:15:21 – 01:19:52:23
Steve
But with Mountain sports, we can celebrate everyone who’s striving and growing and achieving, and it doesn’t take away anything from the person that won. In fact, it elevates the person that won because all these hundreds or thousands of people were working to be their best and one person or ten people also managed to get into this top 000 1%, through their dedication and hard work and luck and genetics and things and so if those people I think like Killian journey is a great example of this, right?

01:19:52:23 – 01:20:15:05
Steve
Like everyone is so shocked when they meet Killian and they expect because he’s such a great champion and ultrarunning and schema that he’s going to be a jerk and he’s completely the opposite of a jerk. He is like one of the most kind, compassionate, caring humans you will ever meet. And everybody’s always shocked. Like everybody I meet who meets Killian for the first time, it’s like, oh, wow, he’s so nice, you know?

01:20:15:05 – 01:20:39:15
Steve
And I think we tend to do that to our heroes and some of our people, some of our people in our community who are striving to become those champions, buy into it and think, oh, I have to be that way. I have to be tough and mean and cutthroat and all that in order to be a champion. But I mean, Killian is a great example.

01:20:39:20 – 01:20:59:05
Jamie
One of the most interesting things I found, you know, from you teaching me about this community, Stephen, from, you know, doing research was I never would have expected that there were assholes in mountain sports. I just would have thought. I think in my mind it would have just been this, like, wonderfully welcoming community because everyone was outside in nature.

01:20:59:05 – 01:21:23:13
Jamie
I was just totally naive about that. And, you know, I was so surprised to find that. And, you know, especially learning this was like some of the stuff that Sasha went through, that there’s this kind of locals only mentality that like, is legendary in surfing, like with with climbing. That was very interesting to me. Like, I didn’t I didn’t get that because I don’t remember.

01:21:23:15 – 01:21:40:00
Jamie
And granted, maybe I didn’t. I was blind to it, but I don’t remember that in distance running there was kind of a we all got through, we’re all exhausted. Well, we all got the tar kicked out of us by that race. There weren’t a lot of jerks. So that was very interesting to find out.

01:21:40:02 – 01:22:09:22
Alyssa
That is why we need you for the perspective. Because there’s still people in my area who will not tell you ski lines. They will not give you routes because they do not want you to know they gate keep that information so that the lines don’t get overused so that people can’t find out their favorite spots. It’s super frustrating, but it’s that, yeah, very much that way of the surf mentality.

01:22:09:24 – 01:22:32:04
Steve
One of the other things that surprised me a lot in a good way about these episodes and, and you know, this, Jamie, because I, I frequently said this to you, particularly with guests like investors and Jimmy Chin, who do a lot of public appearances and a lot of public speaking. I was worried that we were going to get the PR version right.

01:22:32:04 – 01:22:55:14
Steve
Like, if you go on YouTube and you listen to Jimmy or you’re listening to Ed, like you kind of hear, they’ve distilled their messaging down to what works and, that’s great. But I wanted to go into a deeper into a different level with them. And what was such a nice surprise was how relieved actually they were that we were not.

01:22:55:16 – 01:23:27:09
Steve
We were going on into a deeper level of conversation, another direction. After we turned off the mics, I thanked him for the heart and his comment was like, this is the stuff that I always want to talk about, but nobody asks me about. So I think that that’s really interesting too. I think as a community, we kind of have this common story that we have about our heroes, and whether it’s whether it’s Killian and his and his raising or Ed and his climbs or Jimmy and his films.

01:23:27:13 – 01:23:39:24
Steve
We have this sort of common story, but what they’re actually really eager to get to, what’s underneath those stories mountains really, really, really rewarding, I guess, is the word.

01:23:40:01 – 01:24:06:06
Alyssa
I mean, it’s the whole idea of, an overnight success are ten years in the making. Yeah. It’s that ten years. That’s the interesting part. Not the the win that I actually find. Yeah. When races or mountains go well don’t learn a whole lot from that. It’s all the other lessons that come along the way and the training and the things that don’t necessarily go our way.

01:24:06:12 – 01:24:18:22
Alyssa
But, let’s jump to what was the funniest moment that you came across in the podcast, and then we’ll move on.

01:24:18:24 – 01:24:20:03
Steve
Yeah. Go ahead. Alyssa.

01:24:20:04 – 01:24:39:01
Alyssa
Okay. I thought it was so funny when Corey Richards said, oh, I went to a trainer and said, I want to look good naked. And that’s the reason why I’m trading. I just loved his honesty. I’m like, yeah, that’s why I’m training.

01:24:39:03 – 01:25:04:01
Steve
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that Corey is hilarious that way. He’s always been that way again. And I’ve so many of these guys I’ve known for basically my entire adult life, and he’s always sort of worn his heart on his sleeve. And that’s very, very Corey. I just love Lydia. She was just such a great spirit and such, a wonderful person.

01:25:04:01 – 01:25:22:09
Steve
And she’s like a person, like, man, how do I go on a trip with her? I’m going to be tired from the climbing and they’re going to be tired from laughing. She was just great. You could see she just, you know, is one of these women that, you know, just has life by the horns in many, many ways.

01:25:22:09 – 01:25:26:22
Steve
And, would just be, fun to do any adventure with.

01:25:27:03 – 01:25:50:14
Jamie
Yeah, I second thought, if Lydia wants to ever write and perform like a one woman stage show, I hope she reaches out because I would. I would love to help her with that. She was great. She was by. Yeah. Kind of stole that. It’s funny. Not too good away from funny, but, something I think is really interesting, Steve, is what did you find because you knew so many of the people.

01:25:50:14 – 01:26:10:05
Jamie
And. Sorry if we were going to talk about this later, if we can come back to it. But go for it. You knew so many of your guests so well, and then others you didn’t know quite as well. What were some of the differences in your approach or your apprehensions? You know, when it came to those two different kinds of interviews.

01:26:10:07 – 01:26:34:01
Steve
With the people I knew? Well, it fell for the other than my own internal anxiety being ramped up by, you know, some of the earlier podcast. But with the people I knew well, I was just inherently more comfortable. The reason that we started with Barry Blanchard wasn’t honestly for the audience. It was for me because he’s one of the humans that I am most comfortable with.

01:26:34:03 – 01:26:56:24
Steve
Of the 7 billion humans on the planet. So that was really for me and some of the people I knew less well that we actually maybe, maybe subconsciously on purpose we did towards the end, like, I don’t know, at vistas that well, I don’t know to Julian that well, you know, I, I’ve known Rick for a long time.

01:26:56:24 – 01:27:18:01
Steve
Rick Ridgway, but I did never like to do an expedition with him or a trip with him. I knew him more as in a work environment. So, yeah, those people that I didn’t know, well, I was just less sure what we would talk about, you know, and what was I didn’t know what their boundaries would be.

01:27:18:07 – 01:27:50:08
Steve
I didn’t know what their triggers would be. And with being a host, it’s a, I think, important to know what your guests, triggers and boundaries would be one, so you can possibly avoid them if that’s what you want to do, but to so you can push on them if that’s what you want to do. Because that’s often where the most interesting stuff comes out is when you’re probing those triggers and boundaries of the guest and you’re getting these like, really ask when you get into this really real emotional, you know, work.

01:27:50:10 – 01:28:07:08
Alyssa
I mean, mountain sports carry a lot of trauma as well. And difficult moments. And so that is tricky of figuring out, oh, can I touch on this or you know, that that’s not kind to push into that.

01:28:07:11 – 01:28:37:00
Steve
Yeah. And a lot of people listening I think it makes many of them sometimes feel uncomfortable. I’ve seen seeing that as well. I’ve gotten comments or feedback from people or like, oh, that was brave. And I’m like, well, really? Was it? I mean, I’m not, you know, for me or for the guest, we’re already that, you know, I think that those start to be like, that’s a reflection of you as a listener, not as me as a host or a guest, as a guest.

01:28:37:02 – 01:29:08:13
Steve
We are going someplace where maybe we’re already comfortable going, but it feels like it’s a listeners boundary our listeners trigger and triggering them, not, So I think that that’s also interesting. And one of the reasons why I always want to kind of go deep and, and push into those boundaries, because I think that also my goal is to have it impact on the listeners, you know, that makes them makes them think and feel and connect their feelings and thoughts around these topics and who they are and who they want to become.

01:29:08:15 – 01:29:42:13
Jamie
I can deafen to that concept of, you know, the boundary being with the listener, because it was certainly, you know, heartbreaking, but also fascinating to see how many of these people in this community have suffered loss in their pursuit of their accomplishments, and not that they speak about it matter of factly, but, I mean, I guess that’s kind of what it is, because you and those sports have reached a level of acceptance and understanding that it’s going to happen.

01:29:42:13 – 01:30:03:15
Jamie
The interesting thing is, how did you move forward after that? And I think, yeah, for a lot of people, that’s that’s we can’t wrap our brain around the why would you keep doing this when there’s this level of risk. And I thought that you did a good job throughout the season, not just making each interview being like, tell me about your trauma.

01:30:03:15 – 01:30:18:04
Jamie
And each one of them could have been a harrowing story. And we know some of their harrowing stories. So I thought that was that brought a level of a new layer to the conversation that was really interesting for me.

01:30:18:06 – 01:30:39:04
Alyssa
And I think also so what adds a new layer is the people that you were talking to are the ones who have survived. That perspective is so much different. I feel like than than a lot of others. And yes, there is that harrowing story, but it’s also then how did you go and live afterwards.

01:30:39:06 – 01:30:42:00
Jamie
And go climb again, you know? Yeah.

01:30:42:02 – 01:31:06:00
Steve
Yeah, absolutely. And I think people wrestle with these, these questions, you know, every day and one of the things Lydia did a great job with this, where she talked about her climb on that peak in India, I can’t remember even what it was called. They were in like 6 or 7 avalanches, and then they were at an open bivouac.

01:31:06:00 – 01:31:24:04
Steve
And openly we’re talking about. Yep. We got like maybe one more night before, you know, if we have to do this one more night, we’re going to be dead kind of a thing. And then she said, after that experience, she went back home or wherever she went to, and she said she stared at the wall for a couple of weeks with PTSD.

01:31:24:06 – 01:31:56:22
Steve
And then she just started doing things again. And it was this, I think to me, it’s this idea and this came up a lot, this idea of finding your power, finding your agency, finding your ability to act and move through really hard situations, whether they’re because of loss or they’re just because, like, of how incredibly audacious goal it’s so the answer to both of those is actually the same.

01:31:56:22 – 01:32:30:24
Steve
It’s it’s doing the the smallest next thing you can do that you’re capable of doing. And that can be just making your bed that day. Right. Like or it could be, you know, going for your long run or going training or, you know, reading a book or whatever it is, but just getting some kind of like this momentum of agency, this momentum of doing and, and doing things not randomly or that, that detour or self-sabotage, but do things that, that constructively build towards where you know you want to go.

01:32:31:01 – 01:32:59:05
Steve
And that that came up a lot. I think a couple of people talked about that. Rick Ridgway also talked about that, when he talked about the the loss of his friend. I think it was Chris Chandler who died on a mountain in Tibet. Many, many years ago. And you know, how he how he moved through that. And I put myself in I’ve been here, too, when we had these things happen around us.

01:32:59:07 – 01:33:27:09
Steve
It’s easy to feel like we’re the victim of a great tragedy. And that we’re the first people that this ever happened to. And both of those things are falsehoods that we sort of tell ourselves to give ourselves permission to, to stay stuck. I think because it’s easier, you know, I think it’s important for us to not to realize that we and our lives and our experiences or our lives are not unique completely unique.

01:33:27:13 – 01:33:51:04
Steve
Snowflakes were unique to a degree. But, you know, other people have moved through these things before. And, there are ways to get help and to lean on those that have sort of been on this path in the past and help people help each other through that. And that’s again, like going back to the kind of the more senior members of our community.

01:33:51:04 – 01:34:18:02
Steve
They’re often the ones, you know, Conrad talked about this when he talked about, I think, his name. I forgot his last name. I think you mentioned to kill, helped him move to the loss of Alex Lowe in 1999 and how he how he processed and moved to that he needed to reach out to somebody or in this case, somebody actually reached out to him and brought him along through that process of finding his agency and finding his way back to his life again.

01:34:18:04 – 01:34:23:05
Steve
And, yeah, these are these are these are important things. These are important topics.

01:34:23:07 – 01:34:38:11
Alyssa
Thanks for sharing that, Steve. Is there a conversation that you wish that you had taken in a different direction or pushed a little harder on a specific story or topic?

01:34:38:13 – 01:35:00:15
Steve
I wish I had pushed a little harder on Ed Beastars. And I think I held back a little bit because of what you brought up a minute ago. Jamie. I didn’t know him as well, so I didn’t know where his boundaries were. But then we had a couple conversations in follow up and he was like, oh, no, I wish you had asked me that kind of a thing.

01:35:00:15 – 01:35:31:07
Steve
And I was like, dang it. Because I, as a host, get a little scared, like, I don’t want to, like, you know, I don’t want to send my send my guests, like, do it. You know, I play it put them in a situation that makes them too uncomfortable. Right. There’s so yeah, I wish I had asked it add a little bit more about like where how he had, processed these, these kinds of things.

01:35:31:07 – 01:35:56:09
Steve
So it’s both tragedy but also success like at the Ed is one of the stories of advisors that I loved so much, was him talking about deciding that he was going to leave his veterinary career and try to climb all 14, 8000 meter peaks. And he had no sponsors, no money, no idea how to make it work.

01:35:56:11 – 01:36:24:24
Steve
There was really no blueprint for becoming a professional climber in the early 90s, and he would sit in his basement in Seattle and just send out letters and cold call, and that takes some grit, man. Holy cow. Like to just put that out there to random strangers every day for months on end, like, talk about some grit.

01:36:24:24 – 01:37:02:02
Steve
Not too many people would do that. And then he did it and became very successful. And, you know, is like sponsored by Rolex and, you know, has all these incredible, experiences and friendships because of, as a result of what he has achieved, frankly. And those handling that and staying really grounded is something that I think, frankly, mountain athletes do extremely well because we do to your point, also like those ten years, I mean, in that case, it was more than ten years, right?

01:37:02:02 – 01:37:48:10
Steve
Like going through a decade and a half of becoming, you know, that’s really hard work. And that really kind of sums up what why I care so much about Uphill athlete and mountain sports is I feel like it just is this lifelong process of building ourselves from the ground up and pulling ourselves up by the bootstraps and figuring it out and going places where there are not, you know, scripted answers and blazed clearly marked career paths and ending up in some amazing places and some amazing company with some amazing people.

01:37:48:12 – 01:38:10:14
Jamie
And you really got that. You got that out of ad, you know, I mean, if you his keynotes and his Ted talks, they, they touch upon that. But, you know, I like how you referred to it as grit. And it is it’s it’s the ten years that Alyssa was talking about it. It’s much more interesting to hear about that than, well, how did you feel when you got to the top of the last, you know, summit?

01:38:10:14 – 01:38:20:11
Jamie
So, well, maybe I’ll have to have him on again and ask all those questions that you, you didn’t ask the first time. And part two.

01:38:20:13 – 01:38:40:04
Steve
And part two. Yeah, it was it was great. The other one that was really great and that I really I mean, I just love this man as Rick Ridgeway. Like, he’s one of these guys, like, nobody knows about Rick. He wasn’t the first American to climb K2 because one of his teammates summited the day before, right? In 1978.

01:38:40:06 – 01:39:10:18
Steve
But I mean, just a complete bad right? Like he just done all these things. He doesn’t need any recognition, you know, just, you know, has lived this incredible life, had an incredible family, had an incredible career, just like, wow, that’s like, you know, something to these are really great role models, right? Like I wish I wish we had more Rick Ridgway and investors.

01:39:10:20 – 01:39:45:08
Alyssa
He is most certainly a good role model, I think. I mean, so many of your guests have such interesting lives and endearing qualities that I think make great role models. So what are some of the key takeaways that maybe would have resonated with us when we were younger and more brazen? I mean, we talked about it at the top of the podcast of how the aim of this podcast was perhaps to influence those younger 20 year olds.

01:39:45:10 – 01:39:49:10
Alyssa
What do we think, Jamie? Do you have any of those moments?

01:39:49:10 – 01:40:16:10
Jamie
Corey had a ton. I think you mentioned probably you will get ads calling people instead of calling people out, I think is probably my my number one one. But I think, Lydia talked about, you know, after a day of climbing, you know, you learn I think our line was you learn most around the teapot and like, man, I wish I knew that earlier on.

01:40:16:10 – 01:40:37:01
Jamie
I mean, I like to think I learned it or I’m early ahead of the curve to, like, listen, you know, like the end of the day, sitting around the campfire, etc. or out on the tailgate, whatever it is, it’s like that’s, you know, recapping whatever you’ve done outdoors or with anything like that’s where you learn the most lessons if you’re going to, if you’re willing to listen for them.

01:40:37:03 – 01:40:41:00
Jamie
So I put that definitely towards the top of my list.

01:40:41:02 – 01:41:11:14
Steve
One for me that I want to remember is Rick had this quote that was, I can’t remember if it was a poem or something, but it was everything is connected. Everything changes. Pay attention. Just like that, as a as a 20 something year old, I think that that would have been I didn’t realize everything changed and I wasn’t paying enough attention, and I didn’t think that everything was connected like.

01:41:11:16 – 01:41:33:09
Steve
But as I get older, I’m like, yeah, that’s that’s all true. That is all true. And if I had somebody had told me that when I was younger, I think I would have seen it. I would have had the evidence for it. I would have been aware of that at a younger age, and that would have been beneficial for my life.

01:41:33:09 – 01:41:34:14
Steve
I would say.

01:41:34:16 – 01:42:02:17
Alyssa
I think for me, when Conrad was talking about leadership, and how he said he didn’t go out trying to be he didn’t set out with the expectation of trying to be a leader. He just kept doing the work and doing the gritty work and the unseen work. And that’s how he leads that really. Yeah. Resonated with me and is what I hope to be like.

01:42:02:17 – 01:42:14:04
Alyssa
Do never forget where you’ve come from. Never forget that. That just basic work. No one is better than anyone else. And we lead from example.

01:42:14:06 – 01:42:53:11
Steve
Yeah, we haven’t talked about Conrad that much. Yeah. And he is such a manifestation of a great leader in my book, and he doesn’t get recognized as a such, but he has put in the work he has achieved the accomplishments. And he’s I mentioned this in the interview like he’s every ice fest I’ve ever been to. I see him at least 3 or 4 times over on the side, showing some first time ice climber how to shop sharpen the pick of their ice ax properly, which is just a fundamental skill.

01:42:53:13 – 01:43:18:21
Steve
And if somebody who doesn’t know how to do that, teaches you it, it’s, you know, maybe now you learn it on YouTube, I guess. But that’s the kind of thing he’s talking about, right? And he’s making a material difference in the rest of that person’s climbing life by showing them this one tip. And that’s that’s real leadership, right?

01:43:18:21 – 01:43:50:01
Steve
Is like, you know, and as we’ve talked about this and he mentioned this like the Shipton model of you know or the shack. Sorry, the Ernest Shackleton model of leadership versus the Edmonton Scott model of leadership, where Scott was sort of a top down military guy and Shackleton was more of a like, you know, get down and scrub the decks with the crew guy and those hat.

01:43:50:03 – 01:44:33:11
Steve
Those are very different. They’ll show up very differently in society and maybe in society. The one with the status is seen more as the leader. But if you’re stranded in Antarctica, like you actually want to be with the Shackleton leader, not the scout leader. And I think that that’s really powerful and one of the things that I will say is having also attempted my best to show up in that very sort of humble way, like if I go to a festival and I speak or something, and if I try to grab a broom and like sweep the stage, as you we’re talking about, like most people would let me like, no, no, no, no,

01:44:33:11 – 01:44:52:24
Steve
no. Like they’d be like almost offended. And so I think again, this goes both ways. Like if Conrad wants to show you how to sharpen your ice tool like I all means allow him to do that. We have to allow people to show up that way as well as show up that way ourselves.

01:44:53:01 – 01:45:14:04
Alyssa
Most of the time, that isn’t a burden. To do that like that is something that that person wants to do also, because it’s that human connection. It’s that connecting with the next generation. And also it might just be something he really likes to do of like sharpening. I like a fun way to just ground yourself.

01:45:14:06 – 01:45:38:07
Jamie
He strikes me as the kind of person that would much rather be sharpening the ice ax than doing the public appearances and the photo shoots and stuff. But, you know, I mean, he was able to advance his sport so much because he went through that and did all of that. But he strikes me as much rather just like, give me a couple young climbers and let’s sit around and talk and let me teach you something.

01:45:38:09 – 01:46:01:13
Steve
And I’ve seen that like, really show up, like, you know, even internally, what’s uphill athlete like if someone like, you know, is having, illness in the family or something and it’s like, hey, you know, let me coach your athletes for a month or two and, you know, people are like, oh, why are you doing that? It’s not that you shouldn’t be doing that.

01:46:01:14 – 01:46:20:20
Steve
Like, no, well, actually, I should be doing that. And when I know that this is going, I’m going to be needing that time and then needing people to step in for me at some point, because I’m going to have something difficult to move through in my family, and I might need somebody to take some of the workload off.

01:46:20:22 – 01:46:38:03
Steve
And that’s the kind of also you essentially, even in a business, you create a community and you do that by, you know, these kinds of actions of making sure everybody’s, you know, down and working on the hard problems together.

01:46:38:08 – 01:47:05:04
Alyssa
And that’s also just mutual respect of, I know you’re not doing this because you’re taking advantage of me or abusing my kindness like you would do the same. And that’s also how we improve overall. And I think that’s a really interesting piece of mountain sports is I mean, you can say what you will about people climbing Everest and how easy it’s getting, but it’s still require a tremendous amount of hard work.

01:47:05:08 – 01:47:25:13
Alyssa
Yes. It is not an easy thing to do. It is not an easy thing to run a hundred miles or to bike across the country, or to ice climb a really hard road or rock climb like you have to put the work in. Yeah, there are no shortcuts to that. And I think that something yeah, society really could learn from that in sports.

01:47:25:17 – 01:47:56:00
Steve
And I learned that exact lesson from my mountain guide in career because, you know, I guided on Denali, for example, many times. And for me, during the years when I was really strong, it was it was super easy, like it was literally a walk in the park, assuming the weather was good. But I also had clients who it was like, absolutely stretch them to absolute limit of themselves mentally and physically.

01:47:56:02 – 01:48:15:15
Steve
And it had the I watched how to help them. Right. And so I couldn’t come away from that experience and just be like, oh, I’m better than they are. It was like, well, actually they worked a heck of a lot harder for that than I did. Like, I didn’t really hardly work at all. I just kind of went for a stroll with my pack.

01:48:15:17 – 01:48:45:08
Steve
Wasn’t a big deal. These people, like, they dug deep. And so the the measure of success is not the objective. Summit like the Denali is 20,320ft taller. Everest is 8800 and 90m or whatever it is. I don’t even know. The objective measure is like, you know how hard that person have to try and how much did they have to grow to do that?

01:48:45:08 – 01:49:13:22
Steve
That’s what’s important. And it’s like more of a more of an individual basis. And we don’t have a measure for that. Right? Like there is no objective measure for that, you know. So I mean, that’s why like, you know, you look at a sport like a tour de France and, you know, Yonas, Vinnie, God is, is is so loved because he’s got this, you know, he’s got Pogacar out there just like, looking like he’s out for a Sunday afternoon, you know, bike ride.

01:49:13:24 – 01:49:43:12
Steve
And he’s just, you know, bleeding to literally and figuratively to hang on this guy’s wheel. And it’s like that’s super inspiring right. Like the Pogacar it’s sort of like, man, that guy’s just so gifted that, you know, it’s almost not that inspiring. It’s almost not that exciting to watch. But like watching Jonas, like, work that hard and like, and actually give him a run for his money.

01:49:43:12 – 01:50:01:03
Steve
It’s like you can’t help but root for the guy and can’t help but, like, be like, wow, that is some that is amazing. Like, that’s what sport like really enriches, you know, as a, as a just an observer. For me, my life when I’m watching, watching those kinds of races and in those kinds of champions.

01:50:01:05 – 01:50:23:08
Alyssa
Absolutely. There’s a couple of ultra runners. Zach Miller is one that comes to mind where he just runs from the front the entire time, and he looks like he’s going to die at any second. And you’re like, but he’s still doing it. He’s still doing it. And, my mental training coach has said, this is what winning feels like.

01:50:23:10 – 01:50:52:09
Alyssa
And winning can mean a lot of things. But it’s like when you are in that ugly moment of just like gritting your teeth and you can’t even think straight because you push so hard. It’s like, yeah, that’s what giving your best feels like. And that’s beautiful and amazing and powerful. And I think it’s so inspiring to see in others as well, because it’s sometimes like you can’t see it in yourself, you can feel it, but you can’t see it.

01:50:52:11 – 01:51:15:13
Alyssa
Yeah, I knew the three of us can have our own podcast series as well to bring it back though. Any last thoughts or reflections you’d like to leave the audience with, either about this season or things you want to take into the next season? Before we wrap up with just a fun little segment.

01:51:15:15 – 01:51:37:08
Steve
Well, I would personally love to hear what people want to hear about and how they want us to build from here, because it’s really, frankly unclear as to where we’ll go from here. And this is going to surprise you too. But I’m not 100%. I’m 90%, I’d say, convinced that we need to do a season two, but I’m not 100% convinced.

01:51:37:08 – 01:52:03:11
Steve
Like it has to be really compelling because frankly, it’s a lot of work. And it has to be really valuable to people. And we have to be making a meaningful impact to. And this is not our core business, right? We’re a bunch of coaches. And, you know, we help people through that skill set. And this is more of a creative exploration that hopefully is helpful to others.

01:52:03:11 – 01:52:27:20
Steve
And I feel like it’s a conversation that currently doesn’t have a home right now in our community. So I’d love to hear what people would like us to take. And I have some of my own ideas, but those outside perspectives are always so valuable for me. That’s kind of where my curiosity is going to seed the pod a little bit or I’m not.

01:52:27:21 – 01:53:02:22
Steve
I’m missing the metaphor, but to prime the pump a little bit, where my mind is going is trying to connect, you know, mountain sports and the lessons more concretely, if you will, to other aspects of quote unquote, success in life, whether it’s, you know, there’s like that could be like success in something like entrepreneurship, it could be success and something like, spiritual paths.

01:53:02:22 – 01:53:39:06
Steve
It could be. And maybe that’s like the maybe that’s an oxymoron, but, you know, like, to be success and family, life or personal development and try to connect because, you know, I think that there’s, there’s a lot of richness, there for discussion, that is also kind of timeless. And, you know, part of what I said in the beginning was I wanted to and I will admit, I myself do not know what this means, but I said that I wanted to try to develop a philosophy up the mountains.

01:53:39:08 – 01:54:17:05
Steve
And I literally don’t know what that means. But I know that it means like understanding the value and the purpose and the and I guess the point of doing what we do in the mountains and, and not just in the mountains, but around the tea kettle and in the training sessions and in the discussions with our coaches and, you know, this whole ecosystem and, yeah, I think that there’s a lot of richness in those threads for me.

01:54:17:07 – 01:54:52:12
Alyssa
Coming from a little bit of, younger generation being 31, just so many times I was like, I’m not alone. Like, here is another person who has gone through these aspects of what it means to be a human and sometimes when I’m kind of caught in the middle of these moments that perhaps have been weathered in one way or another by the, guests that you’ve talked to, it was just like, oh, man, I, I’m not unique.

01:54:52:14 – 01:55:18:13
Alyssa
And there’s a lot of comfort in that. I mean, I think that’s part of perhaps why we stand on mountains is because we feel so small and that can feel comforting and the inverse way that it seems. And so, so often it was just it felt like the guests lined up so often with exactly the moment I needed to hear the messages that they said.

01:55:18:15 – 01:55:33:07
Alyssa
And that was really powerful. So I’m appreciative just of what was shared and hearing from just incredible mentors. It was like getting a personal mentorship lesson and so many of them.

01:55:33:09 – 01:55:56:10
Steve
I think I like that you bring up Stand on Top of the mountains, because one of the things that I think is interesting to think about is when we stand in the valley and we look up at the mountain, especially before, but also after, it looks so huge. And when we stand on top of the mountain, when we look down, everything looks so small, right?

01:55:56:10 – 01:56:21:07
Steve
And it’s so interesting. I think that, you know, a lot of these people we talked to or had been both standing in a lot of valleys and standing on a lot of summits in many different ways. And one of the commonalities of these experiences is to not be overwhelmed by the initial in initial impact of that first view of that giant mountain.

01:56:21:09 – 01:56:44:10
Steve
But I will use Nanga Parbat as an example, which I climbed many years ago, and it’s literally the biggest mountain massif in the world, both by volume and it goes from like where the one side is the river, it’s at 3000ft and the summit is almost 27,000ft. And so it’s it’s the biggest mountain in the world by all those measures.

01:56:44:10 – 01:57:20:18
Steve
And if you stand there, I mean, it really looks incomprehensible, like it’s absolutely incomprehensible. And yet I stood up there on the top and looked down and everything looked small. And, you know, all too often we get overwhelmed by that initial view of anything in life that is worth doing, because everything that’s worth doing is probably difficult. And you know that taking that first step and finding that first bit of agency, you know, that’s you know, what what Lydia’s was talking about, Ed talked about it.

01:57:20:20 – 01:57:31:13
Steve
Conrad talked about it. Corry definitely talked about it. You know, that that is such a great lesson and something I wish I had learned a lot younger.

01:57:31:15 – 01:57:43:10
Alyssa
We are going to wrap up with our last segment, which is superlatives. So Steve put you on the spot. Who would you most like to go swing dancing with?

01:57:43:12 – 01:57:44:07
Steve
Lydia?

01:57:44:09 – 01:57:53:09
Alyssa
You knew that answer right away. I love it. Who is most likely to chug a gallon of maple syrup?

01:57:53:11 – 01:57:57:13
Steve
Ooh. Berry. Yeah.

01:57:57:15 – 01:58:05:06
Alyssa
Oh, okay. Who would make the best cup of coffee?

01:58:05:08 – 01:58:08:20
Steve
I probably know the answer to that. It’s Vince.

01:58:08:22 – 01:58:12:10
Alyssa
Okay. Who would you bring with you to a Nerf gun fight?

01:58:12:12 – 01:58:14:07
Steve
I think, Sasha.

01:58:14:09 – 01:58:15:20
Alyssa
It’s funny that you outlined that.

01:58:15:24 – 01:58:18:09
Steve
I think she’s really, really tough.

01:58:18:11 – 01:58:19:14
Alyssa
I think she’s tough.

01:58:19:14 – 01:58:32:16
Steve
Do she’s really, really tough? Maybe Nerf gun fight. Is that the tough thing that you could think of? But, I think she would be really focused and she wouldn’t back down. She wouldn’t be afraid.

01:58:32:18 – 01:58:37:00
Alyssa
Love it. Who would you run 100 miles with?

01:58:37:02 – 01:58:43:15
Steve
Oh, man. I don’t know if any of our guests were running.

01:58:43:17 – 01:58:48:04
Alyssa
We’ll say. Okay, who would you spend like, 20 hours with?

01:58:48:06 – 01:58:52:18
Steve
Yeah, well, you know, could I answer the same person more than once?

01:58:52:20 – 01:58:53:07
Alyssa
Sure.

01:58:53:07 – 01:59:04:24
Steve
Because I think it would be Vince. Because, you know, he’s obviously a person I’ve done lots of things like that with, and he’s probably the closest to a, ultrarunner of all the all the guests.

01:59:05:01 – 01:59:08:08
Alyssa
And you would have music to listen to the whole time. You have.

01:59:08:08 – 01:59:09:05
Steve
Great music.

01:59:09:07 – 01:59:13:00
Alyssa
Last two who would you like to invite to Thanksgiving?

01:59:13:02 – 01:59:29:14
Steve
All of them. Yeah. That would be the coolest Thanksgiving ever. I have, like, all ten of those guys around a big table and give them all a bunch of wine and then see what happens. So that would be a whole podcast season right there.

01:59:29:16 – 01:59:48:02
Alyssa
It’d be amazing. I will say that of the guests that you’ve spoken with, at least one of them was on my list of who would you invite to, you know, the common thing of like, oh, if you could invite three people to a meal, who would it be? Yeah. And yeah. Was that, Jimmy Chin.

01:59:48:04 – 01:59:49:09
Steve
Jimmy. Yeah.

01:59:49:11 – 02:00:02:02
Alyssa
And so, I mean, all of them would be amazing. Yeah. But Jimmy was kind of the one originally, and the last one. Who would you challenge to a hot dog eating contest?

02:00:02:04 – 02:00:05:20
Steve
Well, that means that if I want to win.

02:00:05:22 – 02:00:06:17
Alyssa
I knew, you know.

02:00:06:23 – 02:00:33:06
Steve
And, Yeah, it couldn’t be Will, because I’ve seen Will eat. Everybody thinks he’s skinny, but that guy can put it down. Yeah. I mean, Ed is a good eater. You have to be good eater to climb 8000 meter peaks. You know, Barry, he would probably beat me. Yeah. I don’t know, maybe Rick Ridgeway. I don’t think he would get too far with hot dogs.

02:00:33:08 – 02:00:40:23
Alyssa
Well, thank you all for listening to this episode. And, Steve, do you want to close this out?

02:00:41:00 – 02:00:47:22
Steve
It’s not just one, but a community. Thank you for listening to the uphill athlete podcast and we’ll see you in season two.

02:00:47:24 – 02:00:55:17
Alyssa
You heard it here, folks. I guess it’s happening. Thanks everyone.

02:00:55:19 – 02:01:18:18
Steve
Voice of the mountains is a production of Uphill Athlete Incorporated. Our producer is Alyssa Clark. Sound engineering and editing is done by Christoph Lukasser. Voice of the mountains is scripted and hosted by me, Steve House, with research and writing help from Jamie Lyko. Thank you for listening to voice of the mountains.