Around here I’ve only heard people talk about flat running for very specific reasons(recovery, speedwork, workout before a hard effort[volume], etc). Otherwise, It’s rolling hills to steep depending on where one is at in a training plan and what energy system is being trained. That seems to be the same for when a person starts using loaded pack training.

As I understand it (I’m a nobody and could be wrong), the difference between the workouts is the energy system. So what rolling hills means to each person is unique to them and their fitness for z1 or z2 while still having the ability to recovery between workouts.

You talked about inefficient running. Does your goal event require efficient running? Mine doesn’t. I just shuffle jog like a high speed mental ward patient to get my heart rate up to z2. With the rolling terrain outside my front door I have trouble getting to z2 in a 1.5 hour walk/hike. If I add a pack to get my heart rate up I end up making every workout a strength workout due to the weight being so high. Thus I would not be working the correct energy system and have zero recovery.

…wouldn’t walking on steep 10%++ treadmill settings at various speeds (walking up to running) be far more specific to mountaineering than flat running assuming you hit the same HR Zones??

Yes, but go steeper. 10% is pretty low-angle. I think you need to be above 20% for it to be mountain-specific.

The biggest reason to mix it up with outdoor runs (flat or otherwise) is mental. I love using a treadmill for intensity (much more precise), but easy steady-state sessions are a killer. Putting in a lot of hours on a treadmill would be tough.

I ask b/c I am an inefficient runner, but pretty efficient at incline loaded pack hiking.

This is pretty common in uphill sports. The repetition and impact is harsh in flat running. It’s common for mountain athletes’ CV fitness to improve well ahead of their flat running strength. That leads to “easy” runs from a CV perspective being brutal on the legs. The heart and lungs are unphased, but the legs get beat up.

The solution? The fast mental patient approach.

@scott I’m exactly in that situation: I cannot increase much more running or incline walk on a stepper machine due to the leg recovery so I’ve been playing with the idea of adding more xc skiing into my training in the form of afternoon sessions (I usually do my cardio in the morning). Xc skiing is easier for my legs and especially on double poling it’s more work for my upper body and CV.

What do you think abt that and any idea how much that translates into running overall?

My thinking goes that logging more base training anyways increases my fitness and thus it is beneficial. Also, by doing ME program starting next month or so I can then increase running near summer and benefit from my increased base ?

@devin-geoghegan:

I’m working under the assumption that time in a given heart zone is more important than speed or miles in that heart zone.

Sort of: It’s actually time at X speed that is the most relevant. The “external load” (speed, weight, etc) is the ideal thing to monitor, but because of variations in terrain, mountain athletes need to substitute heart rate for speed. That is until a real power meter for uphill sports is available. (No, Stryd is not it. Its algorithm for mountain sports is too variable.)

But…

My AeT is ~152 / AnT is ~172 / MHR >180 (42 yrs old), 11.6% apart, so I have a little more AeT vs. AnT to compress w/Z2 training, which seems a better goal than running speed.

…you are correct. Focus on improving your metabolism (expressed by heart rate thresholds) before working on speed. Eventually, changes in heart rate will stop. At that point, speed/pace should be the focus.

@juskojj:

I grew up in Saskatchewan, so I speak from experience when I say that (depending on your life constraints), these are how I would rank your options:

1) Move to the mountains. There are no substitutes for immersion, not only with terrain but culture and tribal knowledge.

2) Use a mix of treadmills, tall buildings, small hills, and (probably the best) XC skiing. (Take lessons for the latter if necessary.)