What We Search For Is Not Found on a Full Stomach

00:00:03:03 – 00:00:33:07
Steve
To lead is to think about what is ahead. To imagine the mountain yet and climb as it exists in the future. Any future could be a future of storm clouds or avalanches, as well as a more gentle future with blue black skies and a still beautiful sky filled with only the yellowing teeth of the mountain surrounding you. In 2006, a year after Vince Anderson and I climbed to power, but together we were permitted to climb east, the highest and highest summit in the world.

00:00:33:07 – 00:01:01:04
Steve
At over 7800m. The first part of such a climb was a long, surreal moment as you kind of untethered from the known world. I don’t remember that day. Thick cotton candy clouds swirled around in the massive wall of rock and ice thousands of feet above us, and those clouds kind of focused. My thoughts on a future retreat and an as yet unbroken storm that may or may not someday come.

00:01:01:06 – 00:01:25:03
Steve
I was scanning the way ahead for protection and hideouts, the way a fugitive scans for an escape. And I was thinking of leaving just to see and see with clarity and nothing. Cloud clarity is quite like fear. As I climbed ahead, it dawned on me that the one of us, between Vince and I that was the least afraid at any given moment, is the one that became the leader.

00:01:25:05 – 00:01:48:23
Steve
Simply put, a leader is the person that can just be among the swirling clouds and the deafening silence, or be among the raking wind and the artillery where rock falls. I saw a river of ice and I started climbing over to it. Vince climbed ahead, now scanning up, swinging and scanning down, stepping up in the moment, just simply being.

00:01:49:00 – 00:02:11:00
Steve
He was now quiet and aware, a swirling mist lifted from the valley floor and hit him. And I kind of gasped. I felt suddenly alone. And when you climb an icy mountain wall like this, you stop thinking about your fear. You just think about the next step, the next grip, the next action. Climbing is where you discover that doing the action is where you find the power.

00:02:11:00 – 00:02:43:03
Steve
Through fear. Action melts, the fear action becomes agency, and agency is power. A gust of wind came up in the cloud and blew higher, and there he was again, climbing steadily, slowly, carefully, consistently. And I saw the layers for the first time that day. Fear. Action. Agency. Power. And I realized that the core of fear is power. I finished inspecting the ice and it looked great for repelling or should be needed on the way down.

00:02:43:09 – 00:03:13:11
Steve
And I started following in Vince’s steps. I thought to myself, there’s another layer here. It’s a partnership. It’s fear. Action agency. Power partnership. Partnership is someone who can take over the leadership. Take over the stillness. Be the sentry guard for the future. I looked up and followed Vince. From up to the athlete. I am founder and CEO Steve House.

00:03:13:11 – 00:03:31:11
Steve
And this is the voice of the mountains, where we explore the philosophy and humanity of mountain sports. This is where we will ask ourselves who we are, what we learn, and who we want to become as a result of these adventures. This is the voice of the mountains.

00:03:31:13 – 00:04:04:22
Steve
It is with a lot of excitement that I bring to you today, one of my favorite human beings on the planet. Vince Anderson lives in Colorado, with his amazing wife and his three boys who are all for amazing athletes on their own. Vince was raised by his mother in Colorado. Shout out to Marlene. She’s an amazing woman. He grew up on Colorado’s Front Range and Golden on Arvada, and then moved to Boulder, where he earned a civil engineering degree at the University of Colorado Boulder.

00:04:04:24 – 00:04:39:24
Steve
It was there at CU Boulder, where his quest to ski more steep and technical lines led him to climbing. He took the old school route to try climbing, and ElDorado Canyon and Rocky Mountain National Park, and tried to climb and ski as much as he could. Eventually led him to guiding in Alaska. Vince became the youngest American to certify as a mountain guide in the fall of 1998, which I’m guessing made him like the fifth or sixth IFJ certified Mountain Guide to go through the American system.

00:04:39:24 – 00:04:40:20
Vince
Double or seven.

00:04:40:21 – 00:05:05:11
Steve
Year 0075.07 of the climbs that Vince and I did together are well known. There’s a lot to Vince that people don’t know so well, and a few of the highlights are that he climbed and skied off Shusha Palma, which is the 14th highest mountain in the world, just over 8000m back in the 90s. He competed well at the ice climbing World Cups.

00:05:05:13 – 00:05:31:19
Steve
He founded a really wonderful boutique climbing guide service called Skyward Mountaineering in Uri, Colorado. Way back in 1996 and to this day, it is, to my belief, the only guide company in Colorado to remain under the same ownership as it was founded. He was part of the first team from North America to win the piolet d’or or so-called Oscars of climbing.

00:05:31:20 – 00:06:00:06
Steve
Of course, that was the two of us, and we personally not only climbed the RuPaul face, which is certainly the climb we’re both known for, but we also did a lot of other climbs together. We had a winter ascent of the Walker Spur on the ground. I am with our friend Marco Fraser. We had an incredible adventure establishing a new route on the north face of Mount Alberta, which has turned into kind of a modern, hard classic and has been repeated a couple of times.

00:06:00:06 – 00:06:28:24
Steve
We attempted the Emperor phase of Mount Robson. We climbed the first ascent of K7 West, a really beautiful sub 7000 meter peak in the character. We did it. The other new route, and the character from Vince is also incredibly involved in his local climbing community on the western slope of Colorado, and he’s been a really good voice there for sustainable change and an advocate for climbers taking responsibility for themselves and their impacts.

00:06:29:01 – 00:06:56:12
Steve
He has for a long time now been an instructor and examiner in the American Mountain Guide Association Guide Training and Certification Programs, which is important work that has major implications for the safety of our sport. As the guides he trains are often the ones teaching new climbers safe climbing practices and just policing the hills. And last but not least, you know he’s an incredible father to his kids.

00:06:56:12 – 00:07:19:01
Steve
He coaches his youngest kids freestyle ski team and has done a ton of climbing with his older son, who just graduated from high school a few weeks ago. And on the way is also a red pointed 513 and is out climbing desert towers, both with his dad and on his own with his friends, an experience that certainly neither of us had at his age.

00:07:19:03 – 00:07:41:22
Steve
I have been extremely fortunate to have had a number of people in my life who were friends for me, who were safe for me over the years, and who appreciated me for both my attributes and my faults. And Vince stands out in the sense to me as one of the best friends I have ever had. He’s been honest, caring, loving, and most of all just there for me.

00:07:41:23 – 00:07:45:21
Steve
He’s a rock of a man. Thank you, Vince, for being here today.

00:07:45:23 – 00:07:56:06
Vince
No thanks Steve Nice to hear. It’s very nice of you. And a pleasure to be talking to you under different circumstances. Kind of interesting.

00:07:56:08 – 00:08:26:13
Steve
Yeah. This is a different kind of adventure. It’s more of a creative adventure. An adventure and ideas. I wanted to just come right out and tell you why. I wanted to have you on The Voice of the mountains and remind listeners of the aim of these podcasts. You know, I’ve said from the beginning that we’re going to tap the, let’s say, more experienced, more senior members of the pack to lean on for their perspectives.

00:08:26:13 – 00:08:50:03
Steve
And, reflections. And the other particular thing that I’m interested in talking with you about today is suffering and something that you and I have talked about in the past and something I think you’re pretty darn good at, probably world class. I would say that’s one aspect of the mountain experience that I went to explore with you.

00:08:50:05 – 00:09:17:08
Steve
Okay. This is a special episode because while it’s not September 1st today, it will fall on September 1st, which is exactly 19 years after we began our climb of the face of Nanga Parbat. But I want to connect these sorts of thoughts with the experience we had on Nanga Parbat. And for today, we have kind of a muse, a little piece of writing.

00:09:17:10 – 00:09:41:11
Steve
I want to try to, through this touchstone, help us unpack the meaning of suffering, because we did suffer, and I’m pretty convinced that no one can suffer that hard and that much without an underlying belief in the meaning and the importance of their actions. And today’s muse is I grip my fears in one gloved hand, an ice axe and the other, and set forth.

00:09:41:13 – 00:10:00:07
Steve
What I search for is not found on a full stomach. So take us back to midnight. September 1st, 2005. We were about to head up an attempt on a new route on the central pillar of the route, RuPaul face.

00:10:00:09 – 00:10:22:09
Vince
Yeah, I felt like we were getting ready to take an epic journey, which it obviously was for both of us, but, it really seemed like we were about to start off on something pretty profound and major and, you know, with that, that seemed to sum it up, at least the spirit of that to me.

00:10:22:13 – 00:10:23:11
Steve
What were you feeling?

00:10:23:13 – 00:10:32:03
Vince
Fired up like? You know, like, not only not like we were going into battle, per se, but it was a pretty risky endeavor. And we had to be of the right

00:10:32:03 – 00:10:49:04
Vince
mindset to take it on. And for me at least, that was, one way to help cope with some of the other things going on in my mind. Can you do some inspirational music, hopefully firing you up to get out the best of Steve at 12 a.m. in the morning?

00:10:49:06 – 00:10:50:23
Steve
Not easy to do.

00:10:51:00 – 00:11:00:10
Vince
No. Not always. You seem to be more of like a 1:30 a.m. guide. So 12. I found it to be a little, little before you prime the engines.

00:11:00:12 – 00:11:09:07
Steve
What other things were you said? Other, other thoughts that were going through your mind. What were some of the other thoughts? Other feelings?

00:11:14:14 – 00:11:36:19
Vince
Would we come down? Yeah. Like, you know, we’re going to be. Would we return you, would we survive this or, would we succeed or, would come down, but like, with our tails turned? And if so, what would that reason be? You know, there’s like, what you think of what could be the good reasons and the bad reasons and, you know, like, why’d you fail?

00:11:36:19 – 00:11:59:03
Vince
You weren’t likable, good enough or, you know, there’s a variety of reasons. And so, yeah, I was thinking about that. Could we do this? You’d gotten quite high the year before, so I had good confidence. You had a lot of knowledge of what we were getting into.

00:11:59:04 – 00:12:25:08
Vince
Wasn’t totally unknown. Yeah, that was kind of what’s going through my mind. And, you know, honestly, that whole thing at that point in time was at least a week later than we thought the latest we would start. We had waited for a long time with just okay weather and I remember thinking, you know, we’re out here all this way and it’s just not going to happen.

00:12:25:08 – 00:12:44:22
Vince
And then I go in for this long walk maybe a few days before that and just kind of coming to terms with myself, like, we’re going to just try it if we can. We got a good weather forecast, because we had a mist fire the first night. The weather was good and the mountain was still shedding. So then we had this September 1st night and morning, I guess.

00:12:44:22 – 00:12:49:13
Vince
And all that stuff is going in my mind, like, we’ve been here so long.

00:12:49:15 – 00:12:51:05
Steve
So a lot of doubts.

00:12:51:07 – 00:13:02:01
Vince
Sure, plenty. Plenty of doubts. But I was game and willing and like, you know, this is going to be a pretty amazing experience. Let’s go.

00:13:02:03 – 00:13:22:08
Steve
Yeah. Obviously I mean we both had a lot of doubts. I think, you know, it’s interesting to hear you talk about it now. And it just brings me back right there at the moment. And you know, while you’re talking about that, I remember that for you. Remember how we were different. Those were the things that you were worried about then.

00:13:22:08 – 00:13:55:00
Steve
And I was worried about different things. I was worried about, like, just if we were going to get the window, I was confident that our acclimatization was still good enough. I was more worried about conditions and weather and, you know, and succeeding, failing those, those things. And I think also surviving like I think that was the thing that I was most worried about since I had had that experience a year before where, you know, when I was as high and, you know, the story.

00:13:55:00 – 00:14:25:09
Steve
But Bruce had turned around, turned us around because I was getting altitude illness. And he didn’t think I would survive another night up super high around 8000 m and sort of forced me to come down, which was the right thing to do, and I owe my life to him for that. But nevertheless, I felt like I had a big burden of proof on my shoulders to try to exceed the previous year’s effort.

00:14:25:11 – 00:14:50:05
Steve
So that was definitely weighing on me. So lots of doubts, lots of doubts. in your own world, you know, Doug Scott had one, said the famous British alpinist. That and I’m paraphrasing, but he said something along the lines of before every great climb, you have to write yourself off. Did you write yourself off for Nanda?

00:14:50:07 – 00:15:27:20
Vince
I haven’t thought about it like that. I mean, it’s kind of like, maybe a little bit in order to be somebody, you have to be nobody. And I was willing to be nobody, go up there and just become one with what was there. Just that. Go granite and ice and snow and, you know, and just kind of be with all that, you know, I had a willingness to, I guess, ditch my identity for a little bit and just see what was going to happen based on my own intuitive process.

00:15:27:24 – 00:15:32:11
Vince
So, maybe somewhat in that respect.

00:15:32:13 – 00:15:43:04
Steve
Yeah. So you know, you interpret that as you write your identity. like leaving your identity behind to see who’s up there, who you are up there.

00:15:43:06 – 00:16:15:08
Vince
Yeah. I just wanted to have an experience and both with you and with the immediate environment we were in and that had less to do with who I am and proving something to myself as much as wanting to be and immersed in this type of place. And, so I guess and, and that I guess that’s what that quote kind of resonates with me about that.

00:16:15:10 – 00:16:18:15
Vince
I don’t know if I may be misreading it or something.

00:16:18:16 – 00:16:23:20
Steve
I think it’s, but, a prose poem means whatever it means to you, right?

00:16:23:22 – 00:16:25:01
Vince
yeah. Yeah.

00:16:25:03 – 00:16:48:02
Steve
You know, I think that I like your interpretation of it being your identity. I think that I thought of it more like, you know, I, I don’t know if I ever told you this, but I wrote out a will in my journal, when I had been in base camp, and I was like, not that I had many possessions, but I was like, this is what I want to say to people.

00:16:48:02 – 00:17:08:12
Steve
And this is, you know, we had a lot of time to think in those weeks waiting for weather, which is sometimes a terrible thing, right? To just have too much time to think. So that was definitely my mortality. But I think that, you know, it’s interesting, you know, this is this push and pull.

00:17:08:12 – 00:17:41:09
Steve
And what you’re alluding to is identity, ego mortality, immortality. Like, you know, we’re there to climb the biggest mountain wall in the world. You know, that’s in a sense, like there’s something certainly, you know, kind of alluring about, like, writing our names into history, so to speak. And at least in our little world of alpinism and that was, you know, all these things are play and they all play into our motivation to do this climb.

00:17:41:11 – 00:17:41:24
Vince
Yeah.

00:17:41:24 – 00:18:09:00
Steve
It’s interesting. And I’ve talked to people about this. When you feel fear and you’re climbing and you know, you’re like, oh, I’m whatever halfway up the face, or there’s 1000ft of air behind me or whatever that that fear is, you just focus on the one meter of climbing in front of you, right? Like, and that’s that you don’t worry about what’s behind you or what’s around you.

00:18:09:00 – 00:18:39:11
Steve
And that’s sort of what you are already doing. And I think that that’s a place where a lot of people handicap themselves from the get go, if they see the enormity of the task and they don’t see the bite. They can take the steps they can take as clearly and, you know, that’s the thing to focus on. But yeah, let’s, I want to move forward in time about a week because I do want to spend some time talking about suffering.

00:18:39:13 – 00:18:51:13
Steve
So if we go forward six days to midnight, September 6th, which was our summit day, where you describe, tell me what you remember of that morning.

00:18:51:15 – 00:19:10:02
Vince
some weird old school watch alarm going giddy and wakey. I used to, we used to tell me, wakey, wakey, let go of your snakey. And I think I told you that that morning and you were still kind of growling. I remember you being groggy.

00:19:10:02 – 00:19:12:21
Steve
It goes, wakey, wakey, hands off snakey.

00:19:12:23 – 00:19:36:18
Vince
Okay. It was something along those lines. That was the rhyming part of it. Some juvenile phrases to get you laughing in the morning when you’re not feeling so great and making the water too. I don’t know what we are. I think we just made some kind of hot drink and then, you know, had some other basic things to eat.

00:19:36:18 – 00:19:56:06
Vince
But I do remember getting the stove going. That’s kind of a memory. And you tended to be more like, you weren’t in this like it took you a moment to kind of wake up, but then you get ready really quickly. but there was this little bit of delay. Little bit more delay with you getting up than normal.

00:19:56:08 – 00:20:14:05
Vince
but obviously once you got up, you were ready to roll, and you might have even been first out of the tent. for those first few pitches that we had right above the tent that day. So that’s most of my memory, you know. And you know how memories are. You know what I remember is what I think I remember and what you remember.

00:20:14:05 – 00:20:17:11
Vince
But we probably remember things slightly differently than they actually were.

00:20:17:11 – 00:20:17:21
Steve
Yeah.

00:20:17:21 – 00:20:22:05
Vince
Oh, so we can’t unfortunately, we don’t have a video or anything. Yeah. That’s what I remember.

00:20:23:07 – 00:20:30:09
Vince
Maybe you didn’t say anything about the snake. You could have been my imagination.

00:20:30:11 – 00:21:00:13
Steve
yeah, I remember the spot. Like, I can remember the tent, which we shared, a sleeping bag which I had sewn up for us, that we both shared to keep warm from the shared body heat. We had a small little two person tent and it was in a pretty narrow spot though. The door opened and there was only a maybe a short distance between the front of the door and the mountain, the rock.

00:21:00:15 – 00:21:37:05
Steve
And I think that there were some, maybe we had some. I think we made a rappel anchor from that rock later, which, almost, almost killed me. That’s another story. Yeah. And yeah, I just remember getting out of there and, you know, feeling. I remember, I remember just sort of taking stock, like, I think what you remember as me, like taking a while to get going, I remember is sort of me laying there going, okay, like this is this is kind of it, this is the moment.

00:21:37:07 – 00:22:03:02
Steve
And how, how are you feeling? Are you sick? I mean, this is one of my main concerns was I would get sick again because now we’re like up around. I don’t remember the altitudes of our bivouac. So now it’s all written down somewhere, but we’re up over 7000m. I didn’t know what it was going to do. And so there was still a little bit of this doubt, but after sort of a scan, I was like, no, I’m good.

00:22:03:02 – 00:22:20:02
Steve
Like we’re good at let’s go. And, you know, then we then we, we had it out, and we, we started climbing the, the biggest challenge that I remember that morning was, was actually the snow. Do you remember that cooler?

00:22:20:04 – 00:22:23:19
Vince
Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was going to stop us.

00:22:23:21 – 00:22:25:01
Steve
Yeah. Describe that.

00:22:25:03 – 00:22:50:07
Vince
Do you mean where the snow was? Really? Well, What? I guess if we’re talking about the same area, I’m sure, you know, we got done with the rock climbing which wasn’t so bad. And then some steepest snow I stuff. And then all of a sudden, the snow as the sun came out. I remember the daylight coming around it giving away to unconsolidated, faceted, really sugary snow.

00:22:50:07 – 00:23:15:24
Vince
It was quite steep and very difficult to climb. And you know, living in Colorado, we deal with that kind of snow a lot. It’s often dangerous. Besides that, it’s just really you can’t just stick. It’s not like styrofoam where you can step in it with your crampons. Get a pic of your ax in there. So it requires a lot of excavation to move and find somewhere where you can get perches.

00:23:15:24 – 00:23:38:24
Vince
And I remember doing a lot of that and that the altitude, even before that, the day before that was pretty stifling. And so the effort involved in gaining a very short distance was tremendous. And I, I thought, we’re going to the math doesn’t work out here for time if if it continues at this rate, we won’t proceed far enough.

00:23:38:24 – 00:24:04:18
Vince
So yeah, I was kind of, thinking it might not, might not pan out because of that. And I do recall, you know, I took the lead for a little while trying to break down all that snow, and then you, you know, we took turns and you got in front and somehow got on to a slightly more stable or more solid component of the snow on one side of the other.

00:24:04:18 – 00:24:07:14
Vince
I don’t know if it was more wind affected or whether, but you got on.

00:24:07:17 – 00:24:09:00
Steve
You got into some rock.

00:24:09:03 – 00:24:18:05
Vince
So it was okay. But I remember you getting out of it and that kind of got us out of that sugar, which was a relief. So that was what I remember about that.

00:24:18:05 – 00:24:47:16
Steve
Yeah. That took us hours. And, you know, it was hot. Yeah. Got it, it was soon hot. That sounds honest. When it started it was still dark and we were really steep. And so the snow is basically like in front of our faces in front of our chest. And we would have to kind of pull it down with our hands and kind of try to pack it down with our knees and try to shovel it behind us, which and, almost 8000m is incredibly laborious.

00:24:47:16 – 00:25:09:13
Steve
And then we had to sort of walk up through that to, to get to a point where we could and I also, I think, oh my gosh, I wish I don’t remember, but it was like two, three, four hours of that where we were just only went, only progressed, you know, a few meters a few feet, like it was really, really slow.

00:25:09:13 – 00:25:34:13
Steve
And I think, you know, I was getting more and more desperate, like, oh no, oh no, oh no. Because that’s the kind of thing that can be the difference, you know, right, between getting to the top or not. And, you know, nobody, nobody, you know, no, there’s nothing different in our preparation or in who we were. It was just all what the mountain was willing to allow us to do and how it would allow us to pass.

00:25:34:15 – 00:25:44:08
Steve
But that was a moment where I also remember that you were dealing with some pain from your boots.

00:25:44:10 – 00:25:52:07
Vince
yeah. I sure was. And I still do. That’s interesting. You say that. You remember that.

00:25:52:11 – 00:25:55:20
Steve
I remember it well, like it was a big factor. It was very present.

00:25:56:01 – 00:26:23:22
Vince
Yeah. I’ve, I’ve got a few things going on with my feet that aren’t great. one. One of which is just some, nowadays I have arthritis from an injury from 20 years ago, which I dealt with a little bit there. Not much. And at that point, because it wasn’t that far in. But I also have this, I believe, to be and I probably just too lazy to go get it figured out.

00:26:23:24 – 00:27:02:10
Vince
It is a neuroma under the ball of my foot in my metatarsals, and it’s quite pronounced when I’m wearing stiffer boots. I’ve since found if I wear a good arch supports it, it reduces that discomfort significantly because I wasn’t then. And when I wear crampons on top of that, it for whatever reason, the way it produces pressure in the metatarsal it causes is excruciating nerve pain in between the, in the middle of the foot and and yeah, that was, that was really painful.

00:27:02:12 – 00:27:21:10
Vince
and has been, pretty much on every climb I’ve done over the years in that time period. It’s just one of those things I have to contend with, I have contended with until, like I said, I’ve gotten these arch supports of help. But, at that time I didn’t have them. And that was one of the things I was dealing with.

00:27:21:12 – 00:27:43:18
Steve
yeah. Yeah. But that pain was really intense. How were you? You know, I mean, I remember, like, watching you process it, and it was very sharp nerve pain is some of the most intense pain. it was with you all the way up there, especially in these last couple days.

00:27:43:20 – 00:27:44:19
Vince
Yeah.

00:27:44:21 – 00:27:47:24
Steve
How did you keep going through that?

00:27:48:01 – 00:28:06:15
Vince
I guess pragmatically, it’s kind of like the screaming barfies. You get those things, they hurt. Like, I don’t know anything that hurts as bad as the screaming barfies that are not some sort of medical emergency. Anything else that has that level of pain means you’ve got an injury. You should see a doctor, but there’s nothing wrong with you.

00:28:06:15 – 00:28:07:19
Vince
You got the screaming barfies.

00:28:08:00 – 00:28:25:11
Steve
Screaming barfies is sometimes called heartaches by the British Climbers. And it’s when the fro, when your hand or feet are really cold and the blood finally gets back in, and it’s. It’s very painful when the warm blood gets back in. Do cold digits. Just clarify that for our listeners.

00:28:25:11 – 00:28:52:07
Vince
Yeah. So that phenomenon for the people that know what I’m talking about, they know what I’m talking about. And I’m using that as an example of the foot pain I had. I knew there’s nothing really wrong. I’m not bleeding. I don’t have a broken bone or something that’s going to cause me.

00:28:52:09 – 00:28:57:20
Vince
It’s just different. Like if I had a cut that hurt like that or something more, I don’t know, a bone.

00:28:57:20 – 00:28:59:08
Steve
Sticking out of your leg. Yeah.

00:28:59:11 – 00:29:19:14
Vince
Yeah, I would like okay, this is a problem. But knowing, like. All right, this is just pain. It is physical pain. And, if you can just in some way, it gives me a point of focus. I can just focus on that pain. I could still make a step forward. It wasn’t preventing me from doing so.

00:29:19:14 – 00:29:46:05
Vince
I just did so with discomfort. It allowed some form of distraction from some of the other things that might have, you know, been another point of, of mental focus, but I guess I just really willingly accepted that is a price to pay for having this experience. So, yeah, it’s interesting that it’s funny that you remember me having that pain, because I do.

00:29:46:05 – 00:30:08:08
Vince
But in hindsight, it certainly wasn’t like the sleep problem. The lack of sleep was more in the forefront of my mind, of the things that were really hard for me to contend with. more than that. So you’re probably at the time on par with one another in terms of like, what is the bigger problem here for me or events.

00:30:08:10 – 00:30:19:10
Steve
Yeah. But I mean, when you’re doing that, like the number of, you know, the types of suffering you’re experiencing are many. So you know, yeah, you have foot pain. That’s one you have.

00:30:19:10 – 00:30:41:07
Vince
So I started to like, do it because my foot hurt. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. The sleep thing for me at least was a bigger deal because if that manifests in you like falling asleep then we have a big problem. Since falls asleep, he falls off and now stays there by himself. and which would suck? A and B would be kind of a bummer.

00:30:41:07 – 00:31:00:13
Vince
You do have to make some bad phone calls and shit when you get home, but, so, Yeah, the sleep thing was more worrisome. I mean, the foot pain was like, yeah, this hurts. But, you know, it’s not preventing me from moving my foot the way it should move so that I don’t fall off this mountain right now.

00:31:00:15 – 00:31:18:20
Vince
So one of them. But yeah. And I just didn’t want to give up because of something like that. I know it’s a legit thing in any pain or injury. It’s obvious that some form of an injury is a legitimate thing you don’t want to like. And maybe it did more damage than good over the years, but I didn’t want to give up just because of something like that.

00:31:18:20 – 00:31:37:21
Vince
You know? I had to be like, I’m exhausted. I don’t have the energy. We don’t have the technical skill to climb this pitch or there’s some extenuating hazard or the weather has changed. That, to me, was some reason to quit, but not not just because of some discomfort.

00:31:37:23 – 00:31:43:12
Steve
Like, how would you know, for example, that you are exhausted or that you didn’t have the technical skill?

00:31:43:14 – 00:32:04:24
Vince
well, with the technical skill, it might just be I can’t make this move without, you know, there was obviously some subjective decision making, but. Right. You know, you kind of know where you’re at on a rock climb. If you’re at the crux and you’re getting pumped and you haven’t figured out the move and can’t do it, and it’s either technical technique, strength or both, and then the exhaustion component where we all know what that’s like.

00:32:04:24 – 00:32:24:00
Vince
If I have you and I and others probably that listen to this have done various at least endurance oriented physical activities where you get to the certain point where your autoregulation work doesn’t let you do it. And in this case, it’s more of a slow burn. So you’re just like, well, I can’t keep going?

00:32:24:00 – 00:32:47:02
Vince
That would be the exhaustion thing. And, you know, judging like, how close are we to complete physical exhaustion where we cannot come down either. But that said that, that to me is like something that I was a little more in tune with. wanting to be aware of that than just some physical discomfort in my leg because of some foot pain.

00:32:47:02 – 00:33:21:08
Steve
So you’ve got this nerve pain in your foot, you’ve got sleep deprivation, you’ve got, like, you know, quite a severe level of exhaustion. You know, you’ve got, you’ve got. Hard technical climbing, you know, we’ve got unstable avalanches, unknown avalanches. You’ve got unstable loose snow that’s hard to move through. It’s really cold. And then later it’s really hot.

00:33:21:10 – 00:33:42:18
Steve
You know, you also remember that I pushed us to leave our helmets at the high bivouac to save weight. And then we’ve, of course, experienced some rockfalls and stuff. And so we were like, shit, we wish we had our helmets. So there’s all these things going on that are all reasons to like any one of these is a reason for most people to turn around and be like, nope, I’m good.

00:33:42:24 – 00:34:00:08
Steve
Like, that hurts too much. I’m too tired. I’m this is technically hard enough, you know, all of those things could be good reasons. So, you know, what is it that made it so that those were not reasons for you to just be like, you know, Steve, I want to go down.

00:34:00:10 – 00:34:36:15
Vince
I was happy. I found a lot of happiness being there with you at that time. and, in a lot of, like, other things ceased to matter. I was really at peace with this beauty of the, I mean, I guarantee you could build a some sort of easy access way to get up that if you know, let’s throw all the resources possible and you could make it accessible by a lot of people to get to that point, and they could still be in that exact same space that we were at or place on the planet, physical space.

00:34:36:15 – 00:35:00:03
Vince
And yeah, but for whatever reason, and given the game that we play or in this sort of rules that we’ve chosen to, adapt to how we’re going to do it and, you know, all the things it takes to get that took us to get there and pushed us to in certain ways. I did find some sense of beauty, and I didn’t really see any reason to want to go down.

00:35:00:03 – 00:35:21:03
Vince
I guess that’s kind of why maybe some people just walked to their deaths and those kinds of places. And I certainly wasn’t trying to do that or wanting to do that. But I think having this inner calm after I pushed through the sleep thing like midday and we and it was just all these other external things of, you know, a little discomfort here.

00:35:21:03 – 00:36:01:20
Vince
But I knew physically I could keep going. I’m really happy right now. Let’s just keep rolling and see where this journey leads us, which obviously it led us there and back safely. but I think that’s what led me to continue doing is, I was very happy, where I was at and what, you know, being there with you at the time, sharing that and, and that just kind of, I guess, it’s almost an an affable experience to try to share with people the presence of, particularly once we got to, the whatever the faux summit was.

00:36:01:20 – 00:36:27:20
Vince
I don’t know if the cell summit is on the right, or the lower summit. We’re just kind of like, wow, this is really what a more tranquilo place this is on this, like, sub summit. And look at the real summits right over there. We might as well walk over that way. It took us hours to walk a little ways, but that was like one of the most sublime few hours of my entire life, going up and back on pretty easy terrain.

00:36:27:20 – 00:37:00:22
Vince
But in this really, amazing place and probably just because of the state that I at least I was in, I think we were shared, shared the type of state we were in at that point. and so I suppose, at least for me, I can’t necessarily speak for you, but, there was just this, that, that that sense of of, of tranquility that I experience at that point was willing was what led me to be willing to endure, the other external, stimulus that that would have, would have suggested not to do it.

00:37:00:24 – 00:37:05:24
Steve
Yeah. So your emotional response to the suffering was happiness.

00:37:06:03 – 00:37:20:01
Vince
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I found quite a bit of happiness there. After taking whatever that was, a few minutes of, or a nap, I felt better. It was like, since 2.0, all of a sudden, I woke up. I’m like a better person. Yeah.

00:37:20:01 – 00:37:51:07
Steve
You did have a little power nap, at 8000m. And it’s interesting that I’ve never heard you talk about how, as you said, muy tranquilo. That was on the upper. It was pretty charming, but it was very like, I. I also had that sensation. I think we probably were so connected at that point that our perceptions and can I just imagine were the same because we were incredibly connected at that time in that place, and it was just the same, like there was no wind.

00:37:51:07 – 00:37:51:19
Steve
It was.

00:37:51:20 – 00:37:52:04
Vince
No, no.

00:37:52:05 – 00:38:13:08
Steve
It was shockingly warm. I mean, you think of an 8000 meter being. I mean, sure, it was cold, but it was comfortably cold. Let’s say, the snow was like we could walk on top of the snow because, you know, the summit area is obviously more wind blown. And it was easier to walk around and it was just really peaceful up there.

00:38:13:09 – 00:38:18:09
Steve
Really, really peaceful. Yeah. Yeah, I had that. I had that sensation too.

00:38:18:11 – 00:38:43:21
Vince
Yeah. You have this feeling of walking somewhere you’re not supposed to be and we really aren’t. I mean, our species did not evolve to exist in that climate whatsoever. Yeah. and we’re not equipped, you know, with what I mean. We had equipment to provide us insulation from a large portion of the temperature, but not all of it.

00:38:43:23 – 00:39:03:12
Vince
And obviously, we weren’t equipped to breathe that atmosphere for too long. But. Yeah, you have this, this, this weird feeling. You’re somewhere very foreign that you’re not supposed to be, yet you’re here you are. And it was quite peaceful. Also a very violent place. I mean, we could walk on the snow. It was like wind hardened by probably.

00:39:03:15 – 00:39:32:14
Vince
Yeah. Amazing winds. I’m sure there’s some pretty. Oh, yeah. Unbelievable winds blow up there. And, you know, it’s kind of weird when you go to places like that, that, that are just all this and at their extremes, I don’t know, like, I walked through an avalanche path that really just took out, you see, the destructive forces, but then you’re in this, like, peaceful environment at the time because it’s not active or the hazard isn’t there at the moment.

00:39:32:16 – 00:39:48:24
Vince
so that that was kind of a part of the thing being up there that I this, this idea of being in a place that, we weren’t supposed to be in a certain sense, but here we were, and it was. It was really special.

00:39:49:01 – 00:40:11:10
Steve
Yeah, it certainly was. So, you know, you’ve done a lot of things in your life that have, you know, have involved a lot of suffering, whether it’s or, you know, I didn’t even mention all your mountain bike racing, you know, crack climbing, hard sport climbing, bouldering, all that stuff is pretty painful. There’s a lot of suffering involved, and you’re a mountain guide.

00:40:11:12 – 00:40:38:02
Steve
And so you’re out with a wide variety of people. We’ve guided a lot together as well, and we’ve guided some of the, like the, the toughest people on the planet to, you know, people who come from a background of never having been in the mountains before. And we’re learning how to tie a figure, literally everything in between. Do you think people’s response to suffering and discomfort is generally proportional?

00:40:38:04 – 00:41:02:00
Steve
Where do people get stuck in suffering? Is it in their emotional response? Because like you’re you’ve just been explaining what I think anybody would call extreme suffering. And your emotional response was happiness. But we’ve both been out with lots of people who had much less suffering in the moment, and their emotional response was something quite different.

00:41:02:02 – 00:41:19:01
Steve
I mean, the whole spectrum, right from happiness to the opposite. How much of that is under somebody’s control? How much of that is under your control? How much control do you have over your response, your emotional response to what you’re experiencing?

00:41:19:03 – 00:41:58:22
Vince
Oh, I don’t know, man. I sometimes wonder how much control we have over anything, which is maybe just an illusion of it, but, I suppose there’s some ability to control some factors through different things. And, I mean, there’s obviously some genetic component to predisposition to things. And there obviously, your, your, you know, your certain setting, your, your environment that you’ve grown up in, I, I, you know, you think of these, accomplished least alpine climbers from particularly the Eastern European countries in the, in the 70s and 80s.

00:41:58:22 – 00:42:28:11
Vince
And at least my perspective was that their life was fairly difficult and they endured a lot of what Western culture would have considered suffering. but they had the wherewithal and the means to do some of these same expeditions that, Western Europeans and North Americans were doing, but doing so in a style and a manner that was, you know, willing to endure a lot more discomfort and suffering.

00:42:28:11 – 00:42:49:12
Vince
And I often wondered like, well, that’s because their life back at, you know, where their family worked in the factory at Krakow was pretty hard. So they were used to hardships and whether they were worried, I’m not certain. But I do think that suffering, they’re the component that I think you do have a little control over.

00:42:49:12 – 00:43:19:15
Vince
And maybe, you know, I don’t know, it might be like my body doesn’t get the same stimulus to tell you to stop doing something when there’s a little bit of discomfort that my neighbor does. That’s possible. But there’s also, mind components, that I don’t know if that’s genetic or learned, but I do feel like, you know, suffering is craving something that you don’t have.

00:43:19:17 – 00:43:38:23
Vince
And I’m sure it’s a really good evolutionary product for us to do the right things to survive when we had it, when it’s more of a survival thing, you know, you made sure you do. You didn’t eat, you got hungry. And it doesn’t feel good to be hungry. And it certainly made you motivated to go look for some more food.

00:43:39:00 – 00:43:53:02
Vince
And on and on with the different stimuli. but I think, like, just trying to do my craving for whatever it is that seems to be the cessation of it. There’s like, for example, the.

00:43:53:04 – 00:43:58:18
Steve
the cessation of the pain in your foot.

00:43:58:20 – 00:44:32:01
Vince
yeah, to some extent, I think just letting go has helped me. at least maybe be somewhat more willing to endure discomfort and, you know, part of that for me, it makes them back. You know, I was more attracted to endurance activities growing up, cross-country and long distance running and mountain biking. And even after Nanga Parbat, I got into mountain bike endurance racing, as you said.

00:44:32:01 – 00:44:57:13
Vince
But, that aspect of just enduring, that’s why they call it endurance. You’re enduring some level of, you know what? Your body doesn’t really want to keep going. There is a willpower component to it. And I think part of it is just letting go and accepting the discomfort of sitting. You’re accepting the discomfort and realizing, oh, okay.

00:44:57:13 – 00:45:17:22
Vince
So, I’m not uncomfortable, all right. But if I still want this thing, in this case, to get up the mountain, you and I guess this level of discomfort isn’t that bad. I can just live with it for a while. And maybe. Maybe I’m just willing to do that a little more than some people, but,

00:45:17:24 – 00:45:24:02
Vince
Yeah, I’m not exactly sure what the cause and reasons for some of these things are. I mean, some people.

00:45:24:04 – 00:45:24:18
Steve
Yeah, we’ll.

00:45:24:18 – 00:45:44:00
Vince
Do it for other reasons. Some people will do it because they actually like, seek out discomfort because they’re dealing with psychological trauma. And, you know, I mean, there’s a whole spectrum of people that do self-harm and, you know, all kinds of behavioral things . Perhaps if I sat down on the couch or somebody, they’re like, oh, no, actually, since then I was dealing with some problems.

00:45:44:00 – 00:45:53:05
Vince
And he was, he was up there like that was his, like self-medication. So, there could be some component to that that I’m unaware of, I don’t know.

00:45:53:07 – 00:46:39:02
Steve
Yeah, there could be. But let’s, let’s think about, you know, one of the things I want to do with these podcasts is pull out the things that are universally human, that anyone who they’ve ever climbed a mountain before or not can learn something from. And yeah, you said something interesting I want to go back to, and you said that it was letting go, and then you talked a little bit about what you were letting go of, but when you are suffering, when you’re feeling the pain, the key, all of these things, what are you letting go of that allows you to lose that, like kind of resistance to the to this feeling of suffering?

00:46:39:04 – 00:47:16:20
Vince
You know, it might be different for everyone, but at least for me, it’s kind of letting go of me. since and thinking that I’m something special and different and all this sudden I’m just another bag of protoplasm that’s been built up on this, this particular, you know, galactic rock that we’re on. And I just kind of let go of feeling, like, unique and, I don’t. It’s hard for me to describe that, but I think letting go of feeling like I need to feel like certain things.

00:47:16:20 – 00:47:44:05
Vince
So, like letting go of this attachment towards, attachment, to a certain way of being and just accepting this is how something is and it’s not better, and it’s not worse than what I was like when I was sitting on my couch, you know, watching a, a nice, movie or something with some friends or these other environments that might have less of those discomforts, but,

00:47:44:07 – 00:47:48:00
Steve
So you’re letting go of the attachment. I’m letting go.

00:47:49:10 – 00:47:53:19
Steve
Vince, and you’re letting go of the attachment to wanting to be comfortable. Is that right?

00:47:53:21 – 00:48:19:20
Vince
Yeah. And yeah, I guess, or just accepting that this is just another phase of being, when you’re not feeling perfect. And obviously, as long as my muscles keep doing what? Just the other day I was doing something that was really uncomfortable. yeah, I’ve yeah, this stupid problem. My ankle. So I was guiding some skiing and we had hard snow, skinning across a.

00:48:19:22 – 00:48:46:08
Vince
Yeah. You know, I got across the slope and the skis, like, really working on my ankle is jacking my ankle bone. It hurts so bad. I’m like, I just want to stop. But I’m like, but it’s not causing a blister. It’s just some dull pain. just let go of that and just keep going. Your muscles still work like the body’s still going to like if I guarantee you try it again, they’re going to slide the skin forward and it’ll do its thing.

00:48:46:08 – 00:49:17:24
Vince
It’s just all you gotta do is, try and either, like, focus. I either like to focus on the pain intensely or, like, not focus on it. And then that just lets me do it. So I let go of worrying, oh no, my leg hurts. I’m not going to be able to guide this guy up this thing. But just like, oh, my leg hurts, but my muscles still actually do this thing, I’m going to let go of the idea that that’s a necessary component to facilitate the completion of this activity.

00:49:18:01 – 00:49:20:09
Vince
And, I’ll keep doing it.

00:49:20:11 – 00:49:24:24
Steve
Then let go of the idea or the conviction that you should be in pain.

00:49:24:24 – 00:49:26:04
Vince
Free, I guess.

00:49:26:06 – 00:49:29:14
Steve
Yeah, this is part of my experience right now. And yeah.

00:49:29:14 – 00:49:49:09
Vince
Life is about that. I think that’s maybe, I don’t think people realize, like, life isn’t. I mean, we definitely want to crave comfort and feeling good. but there is also with if you feel good, that means there’s other times when you don’t. I’m not saying we want to feel bad, but you got to kind of.

00:49:49:11 – 00:50:10:07
Vince
You can’t throw the baby out with the bathtub water. And there’s all these ranges of things that we’re going to feel. And I think you have to live with and love the not so great parts of it, too. And I think we’re pretty in our society, conditioned to think like you need to have good all the time and non no bad, bad is bad.

00:50:10:07 – 00:50:30:08
Vince
But I don’t really think that necessarily bad is bad. It just is. And so I’m letting go of those ideas of what’s good, what’s bad. And this is and this is me at the moment. And I feel this way and I enjoy the place that I’m able to be right now because of this. So I’ll do it.

00:50:30:10 – 00:50:53:23
Vince
Obviously I don’t want to do something that’s going to cause me or someone else harm in the process, and sometimes you can push through those kinds of pains and do that. There’s probably also a component here that we haven’t really talked about that I definitely get this. Is that, endorphins from, endurance, like absolutely. Give me like 45 to 60 minutes.

00:50:53:23 – 00:51:09:04
Vince
They kick in. I feel really good about things. And, I’m sure there’s some pain masking and things going on there that I get that I don’t know if I get that on day six of an alpine climb, they might be done by then. But yeah, least on short term stuff.

00:51:09:06 – 00:51:45:09
Steve
I want to go back to something that you said about, you know, okay, let’s set aside for a moment that there’s all these different genres. I mean, you’re an expert on metal, so like, of course, you there’s all these different shades of it. You know, one of the things that I see in it, and I think that you see this in a lot of classical music, like we talk to, all right, of the Valkyries, where there is an expression of some part of life that is not the beautiful love song, you know, sunshine and roses kind of stuff.

00:51:45:11 – 00:52:12:16
Steve
It’s the soul’s journey to heaven or something like that. Do you see a connection between this, this kind of this music like this and, you know, helping ism where it’s and it’s an experience of a part of life that isn’t, let’s say the I don’t know, I don’t know if you want to call the mainstream fun part of life, but yet you find value in it.

00:52:12:18 – 00:52:39:18
Vince
Yes, I fully do. I think that’s a good analogy. I think there are a lot of parts of at least what I think of as albinism that aren’t all about positives. And you can for me, you can still find a lot of value and joy from that in spite. I won’t call it evil. I’m not one that necessarily believes in good and evil.

00:52:39:20 – 00:53:02:14
Vince
I’m a real fan of that dichotomy of saying things just are, and some things have better outcomes than others, at least from my personal perspective. You can’t just listen to the Beatles. I want to hold your hand all day and think, that’s the way life is all the time. So this was an answer to that. To some extent.

00:53:02:14 – 00:53:33:16
Vince
And at that point in time in history and, and I think albinism, does also embrace a little bit of what some people consider darkness and light and I will guarantee you, for me as a young man wanting to get into it, the darker aspects of or at least what people consider that, was very appealing to me, like, ooh, this is what I think this is really unique.

00:53:33:16 – 00:54:01:18
Vince
And I wasn’t seeking death. No. but the fact that it was a component there and played a role and it was something to be navigated and, with, for whatever reason, did not dissuade me, but the aspects of it being serious or bitter in a way have used to. Not that there was some of the appeal to me.

00:54:01:20 – 00:54:06:00
Vince
I don’t know why. but, but some.

00:54:06:00 – 00:54:23:12
Steve
Of the appeal be that, you know, you knew either intuitively or just through observation that there was something more to reality into life than just the Beatles. I want to hold your hand all the time. That was certainly part of it.

00:54:23:12 – 00:54:24:13
Vince
Oh yeah.

00:54:24:15 – 00:54:35:13
Steve
But there’s also this other thing and it’s like, oh, what is this other thing? I want to know the whole picture. I want to know the whole spectrum of experience. I don’t want to just now at this one, one part.

00:54:35:15 – 00:55:02:22
Vince
No, no, they are truth be told. You know, if you want to really know my thoughts on that kind of thing, it’s because I grew up in, you know, the suburban suburbs of the Denver area in the 80s. And, you know, Ronald Reagan was the president and everybody wanted to look good. And, you know, the 80s had a lot of emphasis on vanity.

00:55:02:22 – 00:55:37:01
Vince
And Madonna was popular, and her songs were The Material Girl and Michael Jackson and that sort of thing. Something like, that’s what people thought of as like, this is what it’s this, is it I something didn’t quite jive with that about that with me. And I’m not sure what. And then, I had some experiences when I was young with some psychedelics and it was like, whoa, someone just pulled the whole veil back and like, wow, this is all a bunch of B.S., man.

00:55:37:01 – 00:55:59:04
Vince
This is all a bunch of bullshit. We just made up this whole scene that we’re calling this is culture. And life. This is just a version of it that our group of millions of people that I happen to live around came up with. And obviously, you can trace it back to wherever it came from. But and then I realized, like, I’m just living in this world, it’s kind of made up and stuff.

00:55:59:04 – 00:56:22:12
Vince
And I saw it as a way to have the veil pulled back again. And in the mountains, at least in those environments, for reasons I’m not entirely sure did. And part of it is, again, like you could take an escalator to that same spot on Nanga Parbat that we were at, and you may or may not experience the same thing I did, but I.

00:56:22:14 – 00:56:24:17
Steve
Can just say that you would not. There probably isn’t.

00:56:24:17 – 00:56:26:10
Vince
Not. No, no, probably not, because.

00:56:26:10 – 00:56:31:03
Steve
It’s not the same spot. Like the physical spot is not the same as the metaphysical spot.

00:56:31:03 – 00:57:10:03
Vince
Yes. Yeah. So the journey it took for me to get there, both in what you and I endured over several days, but also what the individual paths that we took through the years to be able to even have a shot at spending those days together, going up there. That process for me was like pulling the veil away or, you know, like I’m now seeing what it allows me to experience existing for its own sake, and not necessarily because of some weird play that I’m part of.

00:57:10:03 – 00:57:23:04
Vince
And I certainly am not trying to be pessimistic about culture and all that. I realized we just created it for, for reasons of our species survival and it’s just gotten kind of weird.

00:57:23:06 – 00:57:26:02
Steve
You’re seeking your truth. You’re seeking that truth for you.

00:57:26:04 – 00:57:44:09
Vince
Yes, I was, and so yeah, that’s probably why I find some of the aspects, the darker parts of that are not as dark as some people might think they are. Or though there are, there’s some real consequences to them that most people do not think of as positive ones say the same.

00:57:44:09 – 00:57:46:12
Steve
And, what are you talking about?

00:57:46:14 – 00:58:01:06
Vince
Doing something that involves that level of risk of death would arguably for some people to be, but there’s not much virtue in following that path, like, if that’s what you need to do. I mean.

00:58:01:08 – 00:58:07:16
Steve
Yeah, can we just say 99.99999% of people or whatever it is like it’s almost everybody a lot.

00:58:07:17 – 00:58:44:08
Vince
But I mean, still people do these things. yeah. So I get it that that path may not work for everybody in order to find their truth or whatever it might be, that they want to get out of it. And for me, it seemed reasonable. cost, I guess. And the cost wasn’t just that I might have something that cost was getting involved in a community and a culture where, you know, you and I, if we looked at an old school telephone book with all the names and numbers on there, that would look like, okay, here’s all the people in your life that are not around anymore because they’ve, encountered something

00:58:44:08 – 00:58:55:08
Vince
that that ended their life prematurely, as a result of participating in this same scene that you’re part of. So that’s part of the cost too.

00:58:55:10 – 00:59:20:14
Steve
You know, I specifically have some of those earlier, those old little phone number books used to carry that would fit in your back pocket usually, and they’d be indexed by alphabet, and you’d put people’s names and numbers in there by hand. And I have a couple of those that have a bunch of names, numbers of people that are not here anymore, that I can’t throw away because I opened them up.

00:59:20:14 – 00:59:22:03
Vince
Oh, yeah, I have a hard time with that.

00:59:22:05 – 00:59:39:12
Steve
When you say loss, you say you have a hard time with loss. Like, do you have a hard time with loss? Or do we as humans have a hard time with loss? And does loss really change or is it loss? Which is it?

00:59:39:14 – 00:59:46:07
Vince
Well, I think humans have a hard time with loss. Yeah. So I do. Sure.

00:59:46:09 – 00:59:49:15
Steve
So.

00:59:49:17 – 01:00:13:21
Steve
You’re 54 years old. You’ve done big alpine style first ascents on, I don’t know, at least four different continents who, who have all these incredible achievements around, you know, guiding and you’re still active as a guide and you’re climbing a lot. You have three amazing sons and an amazing wife. You’ve you’ve been so many things. Are you happy?

01:00:13:23 – 01:00:26:01
Vince
I am very happy by and large. you know, obviously some days are better than others, but I’m, I consider myself a pretty happy person. Yeah.

01:00:26:03 – 01:00:28:14
Steve
What dreams do you have left to do?

01:00:28:14 – 01:00:56:03
Vince
In dreams in terms of, like, goals? Like life goals? Yeah. I got four more decades of living the dream of life. And. So what is that dream? Right now? My dreams are to continue connecting with people and more meaningful matters. And particularly the people closest to me. My, my, my family, here, obviously staying connected to the other people that I’ve had experiences with, such as you and others.

01:00:56:05 – 01:01:24:12
Vince
Those are my real dreams to be, to enrich the lives of others by and on my own. By just staying connected with them. And, and also, you know, I, I really like being connected to. I don’t know if you want to call it like the universe or the Earth or whatever. It is the bigger picture of things outside of just social and human beings, like I like staying connected to being out there.

01:01:24:12 – 01:01:39:22
Vince
And so I like to get outside and try to be present and have that connection. So for me, those are my dreams to continue that. And, you know, primarily just enjoy remaining happy content. No.

01:01:39:24 – 01:01:43:16
Steve
And how do you want to be remembered?

01:01:43:18 – 01:02:17:08
Vince
I don’t know that I want to be remembered. I don’t know, just, I hope that my, Yeah, I put a lot of thought into that one. I just want to be remembered by the people that know me or knew me directly. as a positive force in there or forced positive. I don’t know about the force for a positive presence in their life. That’s all that I was a nice person, really.

01:02:17:10 – 01:02:18:09
Vince
I suppose that’s a.

01:02:18:10 – 01:02:20:09
Steve
Me it’s, it’s great.

01:02:20:14 – 01:02:27:07
Vince
Thing that I didn’t fuck shit up to about, you know he was nice and he didn’t really fuck anything up.

01:02:27:09 – 01:02:49:00
Steve
I really, that’s better that a lot of people probably don’t probably go back and that, that’s really great. Well, it’s been such a pleasure to have you on the show. For our listeners, do you want to tell us where they can find you online, on socials?

01:02:49:02 – 01:03:10:10
Vince
yeah. I would like to say first, this has been a really interesting conversation with you, Steve, because I know you well enough. And I was thinking, what are we going to talk about that he doesn’t already know? You know, like, we kind of know a lot about each other, but yeah, this has been really, I think the, the content of what you wanted to talk about was, was really cool.

01:03:10:11 – 01:03:33:19
Vince
Yeah. So thanks. but, yeah, people can find me if they want to. I’m not that hard to find. on the internet, primarily through my business, my mountain guiding business, skyward mountaineering. So that’s it. It’s one way I still like to connect. And that’s one of the reasons I do what I do. I like sharing what I love, connection in the way that I do it through climbing and skiing with other people.

01:03:33:19 – 01:03:57:21
Vince
So I run the mountain guiding business skyward mountaineering, and they can find me there. I am there, by my alter ego, ice events. on Instagram, Facebook, probably Justin Sanderson, sky work, mountaineering on those sorts of things. So that’s how people can find me and connect with me, or at least in those avenues if they’re interested.

01:03:57:23 – 01:04:21:12
Steve
And I want to just add like, you know, co owned and operated Skyward Mountaineering for roughly ten years. And it was a great experience. And it’s a great thing that you guys are doing and continuing to do. And you’re really, really gifted out of and skyward. Grounding is an ideal athlete partner. So I was kind of nearing casket discounts on other athletes’ services.

01:04:21:14 – 01:04:55:01
Steve
I also want to say Vince, thank you for responding the way you I knew you would, which was unflinchingly and just kind of diving into the deep end. I knew I could just kind of throw you into this without any warning and you would have a great response and we would have a great discussion. And that both myself and the audience would have something to go away and feel like we learned something, have something to reflect on about our own beliefs and, you know, come away better for it.

01:04:55:01 – 01:04:56:08
Steve
So thank you for that.

01:04:56:10 – 01:05:03:02
Vince
Yeah. Thanks. enjoyed chatting with you for a little while.

01:05:03:04 – 01:05:26:06
Steve
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01:05:26:06 – 01:05:49:20
Steve
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01:05:49:22 – 01:05:54:00
Steve
Thank you for listening to the Uphill Athlete Podcast and Voice of the mountains.