Tread Wall Max Strength Session?

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    Topic
  • #39258
    jakedev
    Participant

    Bear with me here but I’ve been brainstorming an idea that I’d like some input on.

    My big struggle with leading steep (WI 5) ice has been placing screws. I can lap it on TR but with screw placement by the 4-5th screw placement I’m pumped and high enough to get freaked. So there is an obvious weakness I need to work on. And yes the best practice is on ice but between partners schedules, my work, avy hazards, etc to be consistent I have to create routine at home.

    I’ve created a very specific Tread wall circuit that is short and 95%% effort. I out line it below and made it as short as I could.

    – 1 lap around tread wall = 18 feet (-5 angle)
    – 2x4s placed every other panel with pre drilled holes that accept the an I Bolt (simulated ice Screw) See attached pics.
    – I climb with boots and crampons and do 2-3 swings every movement to simulate the required lock off on ice.
    – I stop and place a I Bolt screw, clip quick draw, and remove 2x in a rotation (18feet), optimally 1 on each side. That equals 1 rep.
    – I will add weight (weight belt) to myself to make 4 reps 95% effort.

Posted In: Climbing

  • Participant
    jakedev on #39259

    Attachments here. Sorry.

    Moderator
    Scott Semple on #39307

    Ice climbing is more about efficiency than fitness. My first thought reading your post was to focus on technique.

    If you can lap WI5 on TR, then you probably have the fitness. It sounds like stress is degrading your technique, making it less efficient, and making you pumped.

    This may be hard to explain without images, but here goes:

    1. Plan ahead. Most ice pitches are featured enough that you can get a good idea where you’ll want screws. Place most of them where they are easy to place and a critical few where you need them.

    2. Place screws sooner than later. Try to place screws before difficult sections rather than during a difficult section.

    3. Hang from an open hand. You need to fully grip a tool to swing it, but not to hang from it. If you do, you’re adding a bunch of mechanical disadvantage to your grip.

    While reading this, make a fist as if you were holding an ice tool. Now look at the angles of the bones from your elbow to your second knuckle. None of them are colinear.

    Now open the hand so that there’s a straight line from your second knuckle to your elbow. It’ll be a lot easier to hang off a tool just by your fingers than with a closed palm.

    4. Stand using your legs as bipods, leaning against the wall. On WI5, you should have opportunities to find stances that allow you to stem with your hips slightly forward of your feet. That will place most of the weight on your legs, rather than your arms.

    5. Stand with the hanging arm inline with the top-center of the bipod. You want to move from triangle to triangle. There’s a triangle between your feet and hips. Your hanging arm should be centered and in line with your hips (not its same-side leg or foot).

    6. Screws should be sharp. Don’t waste time trying to place a dull screw. Keep them sharp, get them sharpened. They should start within a half-twist.

    7. Manage the pump. Perfect positions are rare, so you may have some pump to manage. With your hanging tool centered over your lower body bipod, it’ll be easier to reach with either hand. Switch hands as required well before a pump becomes severe. Never try and gut it out. An increasing, uncontrolled pump just makes everything worse (and terrifying).

    I hope that helps!

    Participant
    jakedev on #39532

    Thanks Scott. Very sound advice for on ice and I will apply some of those ideas in my future climbs.

    My question was more with the methodology of training. Simply put is it better to do a specific tread wall Max Strength workout that mimics the real thing as close as possible? Or better to do the 1 arm hangs, lock offs, and step ups discussed in the New alpinism book in order to isolate the muscles used. Doing the movements on the TW may help with some mental training as well with getting the sequence down of placing a screw but that is more skill training. Thanks for taking a read and I know there may be no clear right and wrong just curious people’s thoughts. Thanks guys.

    Moderator
    Scott Semple on #39537

    I don’t think a max strength workout would be possible with your feet on the wall.

    And as you suggested, I wouldn’t combine skill training with maximum strength. It’s important to practice skills correctly, so doing so with an excess amount of weight wouldn’t be as specific.

    Participant
    jakedev on #39615

    Thanks. After little more reading it sounds like what I’m proposing might be more of a ME workout (like the Ice Beast Workout) rather than Max Str. I’ll use it like that. Thanks for your time Scott.

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