ME and HR zone/ intensity question

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #44091
    Mac
    Participant

    Hi Guys,

    I’m into week 9 of my mountaineering focussed base period and have started lower body ME workouts, but I’m a little confused about how these work outs are supposed to be done.
    In TFTNA, the regulation of intensity is described as ‘nose breathing’ (ie zone 1), and the ‘rate of climb is limited by your legs, not by your breathing’.

    The question I have is that using the water jug carry (25% of body weight on a 350m high hill with an average gradient of between 35-50 degrees), my heart rate climbs into zone 3 in around 5 minutes, even when climbing at a snail’s pace. This kind of makes sense as the effort of lifting weights in the gym will cause a spike in HR.

    I do have ADS, my AeT is 140 BPM and my AnT is 167 BPM.

    Carrying 25% of my bodyweight frankly isn’t very challenging, as a soldier I’m used to carrying heavy packs up to 60-70% of my bodyweight, and carrying a lighter weight in an attempt to reduce my HR seems counter productive to the purpose of the ME workout.

    Is there something I’m missing? Should I continue with the current 20-25% body weight load and work in zone 3? If so, how is this likely to affect my efforts to fix my ADS? Should I bin the ME workouts and focus on the ADS, or potentially swap the water jug carry for gym based ME workout?

    Thanks in advance.

    Mac

  • Participant
    Dada on #44095

    Hi Mac,

    That normally happens, when the carried weight is too low. Increase the weight to the point, when your legs start to burn gently. Another cause could be that the slope is not steep enough but the 30+° should rule out that cause.

    Dada

    Participant
    Mac on #44121

    Thanks for your response, however it doesn’t answer my question.

    Isn’t simply adding weight over the recommended 20-25% of body weight making the ME work out just like a general strength work out – and every set of one leg squats, box set-ups etc I’ve done as part of a strength work out has raised my HR into zone 3.

    Which brings me to my other issue. Is persisting with ME workouts in zone 3 going to be worth the potential hit to my aerobic base training, given that in recent trips my biggest limiting factor going uphill has been cardiovascular, and not lower body muscular endurance?

    The strength work outs were the HR goes into zones 3 & 4 I assume won’t be an issue for base aerobic conditioning, as time spent in those zones is relatively short (ie the duration of the sets).

    Participant
    Dada on #44125

    A strength workout consists of 10 reps max. So, adding more than 25% of BW is no strength workout.

    Your water carries should be in Z1 at the beginning. Right before your event they become Z3 (according to the specifity phase in TftnA). They will hit your aerobic base but this is offset by the positive effects of the ME workout for your goal event.

    And yes, the strength work will not erose your aerobic base.

    BR
    Dada

    Participant
    Mac on #44126

    It seems rather unlikely carrying a very heavy weight up a steep hill is going to cause my HR to drop to zone 1, when carrying a moderately heavy weight up a steep hill causes it to sit in zone 3 – hence my allusion to lifting weights.

    I’d be keen for an option from a qualified coach as to:

    1. If there is a work around that I can employ in lower body ME work outs to stay in zone 1 (or zone 2), or
    2. If I would be better off focusing on fixing my ADS.

    Participant
    Izzy on #44134

    Hi Mac,

    For the Muscular Endurance workouts, you should not be going into Z3. If you do that, the demands placed on your metabolic system are counterproductive to your efforts to improve your Aerobic Threshold (AeT) and address ADS. All of your effort should be Z1/2 at this point.

    If you’re dedicated to sticking with the hill carries, I would use whatever weight you can with keeping your HR in Z1. The ME workouts are deceptive in that they don’t feel particularly tough in the moment, but the repetitive stress on isolated muscle groups has a strong effect.

    The other option is to try to the Gym ME workout ( https://uphillathlete.com/at-home-muscular-endurance-workout-with-progression/ ). This will keep your HR lower and really hit those target muscle groups. I get that it’s less attractive because it’s inside, but trust me – it is effective.

    I hope this is helpful!

    Cheers.

    Keymaster
    Scott Semple on #44386

    @andrewmckinlay70: ME work will work against base development. That’s why it has to be preceded and supported by a lot of easy volume. If you have ADS, then I would drop the ME and focus on easy base miles. The only exception is if you have an event that you have to peak for.

    Participant
    Bella Vista on #44529

    If you’re dedicated to sticking with the hill carries, I would use whatever weight you can with keeping your HR in Z1. The ME workouts are deceptive in that they don’t feel particularly tough in the moment, but the repetitive stress on isolated muscle groups has a strong effect.
    bella vista

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