[baracocol]

good morning everyone, after trying the cardiac drift tests at various heart rates (at 135,150,155 and 160) without having had any results I did the lactate test twice with also the vo2max (which was 60.2). I am 46 years old and many years of long racing, I am an ultrarunner. Below are the results of the first test done in the evening on an empty stomach, but without lactate values during the warm up:

6.5 mmol: rest
2.7 mmol: 119 bpm
2.4 mmol: 128 bpm
2.6 mmol: 141 bpm
2.8 mmol: 149 bpm
3.8 mmol: 157 bpm
4.4 mmol: 165 bpm
5.1 mmol: 170 bpm
8 mmol: 175 bpm

Below is the second test done in the morning on an empty stomach:

3.9 mmol: rest
2.4 mmol: <100
2.3 mmol: <100
2.3 mmol: 110 bpm
2.2 mmol: 117 bpm
2.6 mmol: 126 bpm
2.2 mmol: 138 bpm
2.6 mmol: 149 bpm
2.7 mmol: 158 bpm
3.6 mmol: 164 bpm
5.5 mmol: 171 bpm

During the second test I didn’t have the Vo2 mask. Both tests I warmed up and kept 1% ??of the incline of the treadmill; i did the tests on the same lab. Breathing through my nose I can run up to 160 bpm without dying. I wanted to set 165/170 bpm for the anaerobic threshold (I also did the test according to the 30 min protocol which confirmed the value) but for the aerobic threshold I have some doubts, I think the value is 150 bpm and 160 bpm but I would like a help. Thank you very much

Topic

[russes011]

russes011 on April 28, 2021 at 8:42 am #53462

The two definitions used for LT1 is a lactate of 2 or a jump of 1 between measurements. Since your lactate is above 2 at resting and at all intensity levels, we will go with the latter definition. (As an aside, lactate levels of 3.9-6.5 at rest and no lactate levels of below 2 with a HR down to 100, makes me not feel super confident in the reliability of your results–either from a measurement or calibration error) Test #1 give you an AeT between 149-157, while test #2 give you one in the 158-164 range. Taking the midpoint of these two ranges and taking their average gives you an LT1 HR of 157.

LT1 can be extrapolated (with some range of error) to determine your AeT–so I’d guess your AeT is about 157 or about 152-162.

As mentioned in another recent post, I’m not convinced that LT1 is any more accurate than other methods of determining your AeT, which tends to be a range anyway. Nevertheless, lactate testing can be accurate, however, in determining your LT1, which you could follow over time instead of AeT, but this is often not practical.

[russes011]

russes011 on April 28, 2021 at 9:30 am #53464

I get the impression you are having some difficulty in determining your AeT HR.

I would consider it a range, more than a specific number, which can change based on motivation, temps, hydration, distances, sleep, diet, etc.

What ‘AeT’ really is, is the max cardiovascular (CV) effort you ‘think you can’ maintain for a very long time, say 8hrs to 24hrs, without it ever stopping you from continuing. (As an aside, most folks can’t just run, for example, for 24hrs, but if below AeT, it isn’t their CV system stopping them). I say ‘think you can’ instead of ‘you can’ because we don’t really know that effort is, and actually trying it for hours and hours is fraught with confounders, etc.

As a runner I would just pick a value for AeT (based on LT1, AeT drift, VT1, percent AnT/maxHR, MAF, or an average of them) and just run at this HR and see how it feels. Does it feel like you could, from a heart and lungs perspective, do this all day? Then adjust this HR from run to run until you find what you feel is optimal (understanding it may be different on different days). Another quick confirmation would be to simply look at your HR after 20+ minutes of jogging at this pace, then cover your monitor up, continue to run at this same effort and pace for say an hour, then check you HR towards the end–if its 6-7 beats higher then you have failed the AeT drift test and should try a lower HR next time (once again, understanding, that this may change a bit daily). A rising HR is thought to indicate that your energy use per unit time is increasing, which may indicate that with even more time you would have to stop from a CV point of view–ie, you are above AeT.

If you’re specifically concerned about you AeT/AnT ratio, it seems like you are within 10%, based on your LT1 and 30min AnT test. But I bet your AnT is higher than 165-170–more like 175–for a fit, seasoned 46 year old. Even if it was, your AeT/AnT ratio wold still be around 10%. The AnT is subjective too, because you are running it at a pace “you think” you can run for an hour (or 30min), which may not be actually what you can run for that amount of time. Since both AeT and AnT are both somewhat subjective, and more like ranges than values, the AeT/AnT ratio should also be considered more an estimate than a hard number to achieve, per se (IMO).

I’m 47; have a MAF of 133, an AeT drift test of 148-153 (it can vary), VT1 (nose) AeT test of 158, and 75% maxHR AeT of 143. My max HR is 191, and AnT is 175. I mostly do long slow distance type stuff like alpinism and hiking, and based on perceived CV effort I believe my AeT is between 133-148 depending on the activity and environment. I’m happy with it anywhere in that range, and it gives me flexibility when on trails, going uphill, and being able to jog and not shuffle on flatter terrain. HR monitor helps me simply slow down on uphills and speed up on flats/downhills, but to be honest with you, over time (as I assume you are aware) you don’t even need that feedback. Since I train a lot between 133-148, this has basically become my AeT pace by default. It could be pushed higher, but I don’t see the need.

[baracocol]

baracocol on April 29, 2021 at 4:39 am #53485

Thank you for the reply, i made the lactate test as confirm what i alread know because my range was from 135 to 155 bpm during ultra or simple workout.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous on June 30, 2021 at 9:30 am #55278

Those are very high resting and baseline lactate values. Do you have any known medical conditions that may cause that?

If not, then you have a lot of low-hanging fruit available to you to improve your general base. The more easy volume you can do, the better. I would limit your intensity to ~150 BPM until those values fall below 2 mM.