Can you help me with AeT and other training questions?

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  • #57540
    Diego
    Participant

    Hi Scott, Steve and the UA team.
    I am writing to you from Italy and I am reading for the second time the tftua book which I find extraordinary.
    I am 50 years old, I have been running for about 3 years and the longest distance I have done in mountain running is 40km 2000d +. I have come from years of cycling which I still continue to practice.
    I recovered from an injury in March as I was preparing for a 65km race with 2500d +. I was being followed by a coach who made me do too many intense work and too many long distances but he would not listen to me when I told him that I was feeling very tired and with sore legs. In the end I arrived at the day of the race with a groin pain, a strong tiredness and I didn’t do the race. I have since stopped running for a month and intensified my bike rides. Then I started with some jogging up to 1 month ago.
    For 3 weeks, I started the transition period by following the chart in the book and doing muscle strengthening in the legs and core 1 day a week. I took the test to know the AeT and it turned out to be 133 beats at 5’50 ” – 6 ‘/ km.
    Lt instead at 162 beats. I am running as indicated only under AeT but the sensations are not really good because it even seems to me that I have to go slower after a few km compared to the pace I had obtained from the test. I also find it a bit too tiring even to do 10km at 6 ‘/ km by calculating the slowness with which I am running. When I find a small bump or a short, slight rise my heart rate tends to go up by 5/6 beats and I have to walk to make it go down.
    I wanted to ask you:
    1-Could it be that fatigue is due to never having run so slowly and that the body finds it difficult to use fat for energy?
    2- If I want to ride a racing bike, can I go beyond AeT or do I still have to stay below? I would not be able to go uphill without going over AeT.
    3- I would be planning the same 65km race in March next year. If Aet does not return within 10% of Lt on time, can I still start the basic construction period by inserting climbing and quality work where I would pass AeT while still keeping 90% of the training as a slow run? Can I train for the race and at the same time keep improving AeT with 90% of the volume below AeT or would it be better not to race?
    4-How come after the day of strength in the legs I have doms, especially in the hamstrings, for 5/6 days? it seems like too many days for recovery.
    Excuse my English and if I have been too verbose but I have many doubts in my head.
    Thanks a lot to who will give me an answer.

Posted In: Mountain Running

  • Participant
    Diego on #57628

    Can you help me?

    Keymaster
    Shashi on #57629

    Diego,

    Welcome to the Uphill Athlete forum.

    For #2, since your AeT is not within 10% of AnT, it is recommended that in the transition/base period you stay below AeT to build your aerobic base. Also, if your primary event/race is running then do the majority of your aerobic workouts running. You can use cycling for low-intensity recovery workouts.

    I will request Scott to review other questions and respond.

    Participant
    Diego on #57641

    Thanks @ SHASHIRAJ-SHANBHAG It is my fourth week of the transition period and I am only doing runs under AeT as stated in the book. If @Scott could answer those questions I wrote I would be very grateful to him. Thanks!

    Moderator
    Thomas Summer, MD on #57668

    Ciao Diego,

    I’m not Scott, but I’ll try to answer your questions anyway;-)

    From what you describe you (or your coach) have pushed you a bit into overtraining. And too much high-intensity training, has created a deficiency in your aerobic metabolism (“use fat for energy” as you wrote). As it seems that you have a poor base of aerobic fitness, I totally agree with Shashi, that your main goal should be to lift up your AeT. So stay in Zone 1 and 2. That is not depending on the sort of sport you. So the same is true for cycling as for running. Your aerobic base is also the most important thing to develop for your race goals. You will not really need high-intensity training for such a long race. Unless you would like to win it!? But you can (and probably should) do some higher intensity work in the last phase before your race, to develop the maximum fitness. But only carefully and on a strong aerobic base. And even with aerobic deficiency, you can do some higher intensity before the race. But after you recovered from the race, go back to base building below AeT
    What kind of strength training for the legs are you doing?

    hope that helps!?

    buona note all’italia da amico austriaco! (I hope I got that right? Too long since I’ve been to bella Italia;-))

    Participant
    Diego on #57669

    @THOMAS-SUMMER
    Thanks a lot for the answer! It’s all new to this type of training for me and I want to make sure I’m not wrong. As for the strength of the legs: Squats, lunges, box steps, sit to stand, adductors with elastic (these are the exercises I use the most).
    For the core I use the plank with its variants, the bridge for the buttocks, the quadrupedal and various abdominals.
    So if I understand correctly once the transition period (of the book) is over I can move on to the basic one for the 50km (of the book) maybe increasing the km a little since the race is 65km by inserting uphill training on the path always remaining under AeT (so I will always have to walk uphill). I can sometimes use the bicycle as an alternative to running even uphill as long as it always remains below AeT (it will be hard to stay below uphill). I will be able to insert quality works when I start the specific work where I can go over AeT (in the graph of the book on page 293 fig.11.7 weeks 13-14 and 16-17.
    Once the race is over, go back to training only under AeT until I return to 10% from Lt.
    All correct?
    A last question!
    This race will have an altitude difference of 2500 d+.
    How are the quantities of ascent inserted in the weeks? Thanks a lot again!!!

    Keymaster
    Scott Johnston on #57686

    Diego:
    Thanks for writing in with your questions. I think Shashi and Thomas have give you some great advice. I have a few thoughts to add:

    1) It sounds like you were very overtrained before this race. It could be that you are still not recovered enough to begin training. It can often take several months.

    2) If you are find it hard to stay under your AeT that is because your aerobic system is not strong enough. There is only way to improve this as the others have said yo MUST stay under AeT in all your training for now even if it means walking uphill or riding only on the flats. You can not drag the AeT up be training above it. You can only nudge it up from below.

    3) It cold take a year to get your aerobic house back in order so you must not put too much pressure on yourself to race.

    4) If you find it hard to maintain a 6min/km pace for 10km then you must slow down. If you are tired the next day from this run then it too much for you right now. One of the best ways to tell if you are training in a aerobic state is that you can do tomorrow what you did today with no problem and then do it again day after day after day.

    This process we talk about has worked for thousands of people. It will work for you. But you must be patient.

    Scott

    Participant
    Diego on #57691

    Thank you very much @Scott, I will follow your advice to the letter.

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