[dallin]

Looking at a serious belay parka. The kind you hunker down in for hours and try to sleep in. I’ve read Extreme Alpinism where Twight rails against down and proclaims that synthetic is idiot proof, but that was almost twenty years ago.

Is synthetic still the way to go or is hydrophobic down, paired with the latest fabrics equal to the task?

Thanks for any and all input.

Topic

[Steve House]

Steve House on October 9, 2018 at 10:25 am #13848

I consider down a great one-night stand but a poor long-term relationship. Down is best for weight/warmth when you’re only planning on one night out.

Hydrophobic Down has not panned out despite (I can personally attest to this as I had a front-row seat) millions of dollars spent investigating how to do it well. The ‘coatings’ on the down either wash or wear off very quickly usually leaving the down feathers worse off than they would have been without treatment (specifically they clump up). That, for now, is a dead horse.

Synthetic is still the way to go and getting better each year.

One caveat, do not buy a synthetic belay parka with a goretex shell, that totally mis-understands how a belay parka works to move moisture out of your clothing system.

RE the future, I’m currently in possession of a next-gen synthetic belay parka that is super warm and, as a full-size-all-conditions belay parka weighs about the same as a similarly insulated down parka. I’ve been testing this jacket for 2 weeks (full-disclosure: My day-job is Patagonia Ambassador)

I’ve worn synthetic parkas (mostly the DAS Parka) and pants (DAS and MicroPuff) on numerous 8,000 meter peaks climbs and summits as well as hundreds of days in Alaska and elsewhere. These jackets have literally saved my life many times.

What’s more, I consider a synthetic belay parka to be my winter-conditions outerwear. I don’t use goretex or similiar waterproof/breathable shells ever unless I know i’ll be in rain (ie. Scotland in winter). I still use a Houdini Jacket as my primary shell for almost all winter climbing and skiing. If i need more, I throw on a Hyper Puff Belay Parka which is basically all (winter) weather protection.

Hope that helps, I’m sure others will have opinions on this as well that will also be valid.

[richard.ferron]

richard.ferron on October 10, 2018 at 6:57 am #13869

Good question and answer. I guess the same rules applies to sleeping bags?

[hafjell]

hafjell on October 10, 2018 at 12:17 pm #13886

“What’s more, I consider a synthetic belay parka to be my winter-conditions outerwear. I don’t use goretex or similar waterproof/breathable shells ever unless I know i’ll be in rain (ie. Scotland in winter). I still use a Houdini Jacket as my primary shell for almost all winter climbing and skiing. If i need more, I throw on a Hyper Puff Belay Parka which is basically all (winter) weather protection.”
Even in wet-snow conditions with expected constant snow fall? I ask because I know you used to like the M10 for a similar application. I think the M10 is just about perfect. Maybe the Houdini breathes better on the up? Certainly lighter and cheaper. Will look into the Hyper Puff.

[alexgauthier]

alexgauthier on October 15, 2018 at 10:08 pm #13973

I get away with down here in Colorado but I’m seldom out for a very long time and Colorado is quite dry compared to my last home (Oregon). In Oregon, I routinely went to full gore-tex and synthetic insulation.

I haven’t tried much Patagonia stuff as it never seems to fit me quite right but another respected brand to check out for parkas with synthetic insulation is NW Alpine. They make a pretty nice belay jacket and their climbing apparel tends to be stripped down as possible but still equal to many tasks. It’s also pretty durable which cannot be said about much that is made these days. Oh, it’s also completely made in the US if you’re into that. Not warm enough for 8000m peaks etc but great for the cascades, Alaska etc.

[tomjerram]

tomjerram on June 12, 2020 at 6:06 pm #42755

Hi there
I’m wondering if you’re still strongly in the synthetic belay Jacket camp?
I presume the prototype jacket you were speaking of is the macro puff?
I have a hyperpuff, which is pretty good but not quite warm enough for high midwinter camping here in New Zealand , and isn’t very compressible. I also got size small, which is fine with no layers underneath, but probably loses some insulation when stretched over the top of other layers.How does the hyper puff sizing compare to macro puff?
I’m tossing up down vs macro puff- have used synthetics here for the last 22 years, but have had many cold nights in the mountains & have occasionally been jealous of a partners big fluffy jacket. The flip side is that I’ve had plenty of times in freezing rain & wet snow that I was glad I wasn’t in down.

Also, wanted to say thanks for the plans & work you guys do. I’m better able to cope with a 20h day in the mountains now at 41 than I was at 21, entirely thanks to your approach and training plans

[Steve House]

Steve House on June 22, 2020 at 1:38 pm #42974

@tomjerram
My views haven’t changed. I know synthetic parkas are bulkier, but I also know I almost certainly will not die of hypothermia wearing a wet parka. I do use down, but only in short term situations or places where it is so cold that there is only snow/ice, no water (Denali). Thanks for representing Uphill athlete in NZ!