Analysis of gas exchange/lactate test for future training

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    Topic
  • #5674
    Daniel Sedlacek
    Participant

    Hello Scott and Steve,

    As many people already wrote it, I also want to thank you for Training for the new alpinism, as it was totaly the game changer for me.

    I train for mountain running/mountaineering/ski mountaineering according to TFTNA last 4 months, currently in a base period with max strength training and I recently did a gas exchange/lactate test on treadmill. I’m a bit confused how to interpret my results and how should I design my training now.

    Morning HR……………….60
    Max HR…………………..206+
    Carb/Fat crossover………..164 ==> AeT?
    AeT 2 mmol/l……………..182
    AnT 4 mmol/l……………..194
    AnT Dickhut (2,6 mmol/l)…..188 ==> AnT?
    AnT Dmax (2,5 mmol/l)……..187 ==> AnT?

    My evaluation?
    Zone 1: 122-164 AeT
    Zone 2: N/A
    Zone 3: 166-188 AnT
    Zone 4: 188-198

    So my questions are:
    1) What are exactly my training zones?
    2) Should I already incorporate zone 3 or 4 training sessions or still build aerobic base?
    3 Any other recommendations?

    Thank you very much to any suggestion and I hope it will also help other people with their evaluation.

    View post on imgur.com

    View post on imgur.com

  • Participant
    cujhg on #5683

    Hi,
    how to did you organize your test?
    I’m from Munich/want to get tested sooner or later…

    Kind regards,
    Clemens

    Participant
    Daniel Sedlacek on #5685

    Hey man,

    I work at University of Innsbruck so I just gently asked my collegue from sport science department and bought a wine for her 😀

    Keymaster
    Scott Johnston on #5706

    Daniel:

    Thanks for sharing your test data with all of us. There is some great info here and I will evaluate as I would for one of my own athletes who had this same test. A few things to say to start:
    1) The language is a little bit of a problem for me so I might say some wrong things due to the test being in German.
    2) Zones: These represent general information on THAT DAY. They will shift from day to day and you should not assume they are cast in stone or that they are accurate to within a beat or two. Doing that is, as they say in the engineering world, “false precision”.
    3) I am not familiar with the AnT terms of Dickhut or Dmax so I can’t help you with that.

    Now on to my observations of this test:
    1) I do not like to use a treadmill graded test to determine AnT. Labs do this but coaches do not. What coaches do and what we outline here:https://uphillathlete.com/diy-anaerobic-test/ is a field test because this is a performance test and that’s more important. Using 4mMol as a marker of AnT is a big mistake often made. You can use performance at 4mMol as a proxy measure of endurance but I prefer the field test mentioned above.

    2) As for AeT. Something to keep in mind is that AeT is a controversial term and ill defined in sport science. Some use a ventilation marker. Some use the fat/carb cross over point. Some use 2mMol/L. So, where does this leave you? Here is how I would interpret this:
    Your cross over point is below your AeT. This means that to improve fat adaption you will train at the cross over point HR (164). A large volume of training at and just below 164 (Z1) will move the crossover point upward. To improve your running speed at 2mMol/L you will train at 182 (which is impressively high and warrants discussion on its own). I will address that below.

    Your AeT of 182 is only about 12% below your maximum HR which means that no matter what your AnT Hr turns out to be from the test mentioned above, the spread between AeT and AnT is well below 10%. Based on this I recommend the following zones.

    Z1= 155-165
    Z2= 166-182
    Z3= 183-(the HR you find in the AnT test)
    Z4= Above AnT

    With this high AeT you may only be able to handle 1-2 hours each week at this intensity since is probably pretty fast running for you. You need to do most of your basic aerobic capacity work in Z1 with possibly some Z2 fartleks or pick ups. You need minimal (less than 5%) training in Z3 but will benefit from including 1 Z4 interval session each week.

    Good luck with your training.
    Scott

    Participant
    Daniel Sedlacek on #5717

    Thanks a lot Scott, I really appreciate you spent serious time with that!
    I wish you all the best.

    Daniel

    Participant
    jason3759 on #5743

    Question on testing.

    Did my first DIY lactate test today and used my wifes “Maxi Climber” instead of a treadmill or hill. I’d like to know if the total time of the test matters much? As you can see from my results my HR and Lactate levels increased rapidly. If I understand this correctly my AnT is at 165 bpm, and I got there in only 6 minutes.
    Would a slower pace give me different results?

    J.

    Rest HR 89 1.8mmol
    1.0 min HR 123 1.6 mmol
    2.5 min HR 135 2.1 mmol
    4.0 min HR 150 2.7 mmol
    6.0 min HR 165 3.7 mmol
    9.0 min HR 175 8.5 mmol

    Keymaster
    Scott Johnston on #5749

    Jason:

    Yes time matters a great deal.
    #1- you need a 15-20 min very gradual (start ver slow) warm up. You can do this with a walk outside. You need to get your aerobic system fully online and this takes time.
    #2- The individual stages must be at least 3 minutes and can be 4. This gives your lactate concentration time to stabilize. Your stages were short so chances are the concentration was never actually stabilizing.
    #3- The more data points you collect the better. Make the HR jumps smaller. Shoot for a max jump of 10bpm. 5bpm is even better as the lactate will be making smaller increases and so stabilize faster. But 10bpm is good enough.
    4# Why are you using this test to find your anaerobic threshold? And how did you determine that you AnT is at 165? This test does not show that. Use this kind of test to find the AEROBIC threshold or the point when you lactate concentration reaches 2mMol/L. If you want to find your AnT then use a field test, no lactate analyzers needed. Read about it here: https://uphillathlete.com/diy-anaerobic-test/
    This is the test I use all the athletes I coach. It can be done in a sport specific way on terrain you use (or a treadmill/Stair machine) and it is reproducible. Lab based AnT tests sneed to involve gas exchange testing to be able to tell you AnT. The field test is fool proof because is is performance based.

    Hope this helps,
    Scott

    Participant
    jason3759 on #5759

    Scott:

    Thank you for the quick reply. More than that thank you for being so generous with your time.

    I am still working on wrapping my head around all of the terms and science so the AnT was a mistake. But thank yo for clearing it up.

    Best, J

    Participant
    cujhg on #5796

    Oh alright;)

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